Video card differences?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:49 pm

Thank you all very much for your contributions - very much appreciated

I am now very close to buying, if you don't mind I will share the two bookmarked pc specs.

PC1 - Mesh Computers

Processor: AMD Athlon XP (TM) 2700+ with Quantispeed Tech
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X Latest Technology (USB 2.0 - 8x AGP - DDR400)
Memory: 512Mb PC2700 DDR Memory 333MHz (2x256)
Hard Disk Drive: 120Gb Ultra Fast with 2Mb Buffer (7200rpm)
Graphics: 128Mb ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (8xAGP) TV Out + DVI
Monitor: 17'' Sharp TFT Flat Panel Monitor
DVD-ROM Drive: 16x DVD (40x CD-ROM)
CD Rewriter: CD Re-writable (48x16x48) + Buffer Under Run Technology
Sound: Onboard Dolby Digital 6 Channel with SP/DIF & Soundstorm
Speakers: New Creative Labs Inspire 5300 - 5.1 Surround
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home

PC2 - Evesham

Processor: AMD Athlon XP 2700+ CPU
Hard Disk: 120GB IDE (7200rpm) 8Mb buffer
Memory: 512MB DDR RAM (2 x 256MB)
Monitor: 17" LG L1710B DVI TFT
CD Writer: 48x16x48
Video Card: Geforce 4 Ti4800 128Mb
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy Dolby Sound & Firewire (OEM) Speakers: Creative Inspire 5.1 5300
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home

Sorry to keep bothering you all...

Ok, so both systems are approximately the same price. I have decided I would like a TFT screen. My last question (hopefully

) is:

The Mesh system comes with 9700 Pro and 8x mobo, but the monitor flat panel not DVi. The Evesham has a confirmed DVi monitor, using a ti4800 (but the motherboard is not confirmed as supporting 8x AGP - you don't get to configure the motherboard). This is where my dilemma lies. I am starting to fancy the 9700 Pro and mobo supporting 8x, should I look elsewhere for a DVi monitor, rather than accept the flat panel? Your thoughts are very much appreciated.

Thanks so much again

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:03 pm

You can always get a monitor separately, and if you go with the first computer, you might also consider sinking $50 (USD) into a SoundBlaster card rather than stick with the onboard sound (although onboard sound has come a long way recently).

By the looks of them, either machine will serve you well, although I would also see how much extra it would cost to upgrade to XP Professional.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:21 pm

Just a few small points.

1) Get them to partition the hard disk so you have about 3 partitions, one for the OS, one for storage of downloads documents whatever and one for games. I recently had my XP OS go walk about but I didn't lose very much data at all because I had it all partitioned correctly.

2) AGP8x probably won't make much difference for another few years in my opinion.

3) Get a flat screen monitor and if not a TFT but buying it separately probably shouldn't set you back all that much.

4) What HLD said.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:17 pm

@Ysh: I would just like to make a small point to your specs. I would hold off on flat screen monitors (unless they are just flat screen, and not the LCD's) simply because they have a tendency to burn out quickly, and have to be replaced more often.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:05 pm

Just some comments on the hardware component side :

PC1 - Mesh Computers

Memory: 512Mb PC2700 DDR Memory 333MHz (2x256) -----> 1024MB makes ya invincible

CD Rewriter: CD Re-writable (48x16x48) + Buffer Under Run Technology -------> Plextor still the first choice, couple of source of mine report it cna burn even the cheapest CDR without failing
Speakers: New Creative Labs Inspire 5300 - 5.1 Surround -------> Ditch this if ya have extra home theatre speaker and amplifier

PC2 - Evesham

Monitor: 17" LG L1710B DVI TFT ----> ditch this, Koreans tech support are real bad.
Speakers: Creative Inspire 5.1 5300 ---> Ditch this if ya have extra home theatre speaker and amplifier

As for Vid cards ask what brand they give ya, same chipset graph card from different manufacturer got different performance. The best bet to get MS hardware lab certified ones - safe trouble when you play MS games.

As for OS, XP ??? I heard 2000 is more stable and got better support on software and games

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:01 pm

If you want support for games and software, then Windows 98SE is the way to go. However, Microsoft is de-supporting all of their operating systems except for XP and 2000 this year, and I hear that they are de-supporting 2000 next year, when their replacement for Windows (Longhorn?) hits shelves.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:32 am

A few more points:

I would always go for the Mesh machine in the first instance anyway - their customer support and construction is second to none within the UK, in my opinion. The rest of the computer supports this.

The Radeon 9700 Pro is currently the best graphics card on the market, the Geforce 4 4800 is actually worse than the Geforce 4 4600, being just a 4200 with 8x AGP, which as Sleep says isn't that important yet, although all the companies are quickly phasing out anything else.

The memory on the Evesham model isn't advertised as DDR333 or DDR400, so it's most likely to be bog-standard PC266, whereas the Mesh model is specified as 333 and the motherboard as supporting 400, which will suit you well if you decide to upgrade the memory in a year or two.

Does the Evesham Vale computer even have a DVD drive?

Find out the manufacturer of the Mesh TFT screen - I know someone who works for LG England and they say that they're pretty shocked at things like customer service, number of dead pixels allowed, etc. on their monitors. so be careful with that.

HLD is right, a proper soundcard will give you better sound quality, but I think that the onboard will serve you well - the onboard chips are getting better and better. My advice if you choose the Mesh is to try out the onboard and only get another if you notice problems with it.

As for OS, XP has great problems running anything that hasn't come out in the past few years, but 2000 will run almost everything (woo! Monkey Island 1!

) if you have the Application Compatibility Toolkit. Windows 98 SE will run anything, but have cras...I mean undocumented system resets that allow you to take a well-earned break from the computer.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:23 am

Originally posted by Kameleon
As for OS, XP has great problems running anything that hasn't come out in the past few years, but 2000 will run almost everything (woo! Monkey Island 1! ) if you have the Application Compatibility Toolkit. Windows 98 SE will run anything, but have cras...I mean undocumented system resets that allow you to take a well-earned break from the computer.

Not quite true, I never had much of a problem running older games when I had installed them with the correct compatibility mode. I say at worst get 98 and it ain't that bad but consider 2000 too since it is pretty good from the few times I have used it.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:29 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Not quite true, I never had much of a problem running older games when I had installed them with the correct compatibility mode. I say at worst get 98 and it ain't that bad but consider 2000 too since it is pretty good from the few times I have used it.

Hmm, I wouldn't get 98...2000 and, loathe as I am to say it, XP are far more stable than 98, and if there's an option to upgrade from XP Home to XP Professional you should take it, Ysh.

Silver Knight · Post by **Silver Knight** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:40 pm

I too would be tempted to ditch the flat panel monitor. If you're playing high end games you need a really good one.

Again for high end games, I reckon you have to go for the Mesh system offering the 9700 pro. I just bought one and it absolutely rocks! Stunning performance out of the box and they overclock very well indeed

That Asus board on the Mesh system has an NForce 2 chipset - Nvidia's onbard sound is excellent, pretty much the equal of the Soundblaster Audigy 2.

NForce chipsets also automatically unlock AMD processors with Thoroughbred cores allowing you to overclock them to hell. I have an Epox board with an NForce 2 chipset, that has PCI and AGP locks which enable you to ramp up the front side bus to ridiculous levels without blowing anything else up. However, I don't know if the Asus board will do that.

But if you choose to overclock, make sure you have adequate cooling. You also need to make sure you have adequate power, that ATI card will needs to be plugged into the power supply directly and will draw 50 watts there plus all it can from the AGP slot. You will also need to up voltage to the processor if you choose to overclock.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:54 pm

A bit off-topic, but Silver Knight, have you had any problems using network cards other than the onboard one with your Epox?

Silver Knight · Post by **Silver Knight** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:10 pm

@ Kameleon

I'm sorry, I can't help you there. I've never tried using a network card on this board, not even the onboard one. The only thing I have plugged into it is a Hayes Accura ISDN card which works with no problems at all.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:28 pm

@Kameleon:
I built a computer for my stepdaughter that used a socket 370 Epox board and she hasn't had any trouble with her 3Com Etherlink III 10BaseT NIC. The only compatibility issue I've experienced firsthand is a problem with the 3Com 3C905 NIC and Windows 98; the workaround is to use 3Com's Windows NT driver with a firmware update (I took the card back and bought a Netgear card and the problem went away).

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:36 am

Thanks you two, this particular problem is with a friends' Epox EP-8RDA+, with inbuilt Realtek card (ick) that basically will not run Windows with another network card (3Com and Netgear have been tried). We think it's a rather large problem, but I've never heard of anyone else with it and the technical support for each component tells him that it's a problem with the other

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:29 am

Can you disable the onboard card in the BIOS? You may need to update to the latest flash, but once you disable the Realtek card, you should be able to add a PCI card with no problems.

Which version of Windows are you running? Have you tried a different version?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:50 pm

Thanks again, all!

Now I am pretty much decided on the hardware (the Mesh system with a 17" NEC DVi TFT monitor - Mesh confirmed the Sharp flat panel was not DVi, but offered the NEC for no extra cost)

@Aegis, I would have loved to stick with the Mitsubishi 19" DPRO Diamondtron CRT that comes as standard, but I literally do not have the physical space. This was why I decided on a DVi TFT, I currently have a Sony Trinitron 17" and that is bulky enough.

Ok, guys, one last question please - if you don't mind

I, for one reason or another, hoped not to have to go for Win XP, but since MS are pulling support on the other OS it seems I will have little choice eventually. Now I spoke to Mesh about upgrading to Win XP Pro, since both HLD and Kam advised it. What are the main advantages of Win XP Pro over Win XP, please? The upgrade will cost £70 ish, which is not a problem, but what benefits will this give me over the standard package?

Thank you!

Silver Knight · Post by **Silver Knight** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:06 pm

Originally posted by Yshania

What are the main advantages of Win XP Pro over Win XP, please? The upgrade will cost £70 ish, which is not a problem, but what benefits will this give me over the standard package?

Umm... you got me.... nothing I can think of that you are ever likely to need. Dual processor support, native support for DVD burners (it probably won't work very well anyway if the native cd burning 'support' was anything to go by - just spat out coasters) better networking support..... I could be wrong but I don't think it's worth it.

This is a bit embarrassing but further to my previous post, that Asus board with the NForce chipset will probably not overclock. Apparently Asus' implementation of the NForce 2 is erm.... not of the highest quality, or so I have been told.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:02 pm

XP Home and XP Pro are the same basic operating system, but XP Pro seems to have fewer compatibility and drivers issues than XP Home. In terms of functionality, you won't have a problem with either, but my experience has been the XP Pro users have fewer issues than XP Home users. If the difference in price isn't prohibitive, go with XP Pro.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:32 am

Again, my sincere thanks all

So now it is ordered, LOL!

I put the phone down twice feeling that it was so self indulgant!! Anyhow, after five years of upgrading, and the cash to spare, I feel I deserve a little spoiling

I have even found a buyer for my old machine! When he accepted my first price I felt I should have asked for more! I had considered cannabilising bits, even keeping it for the kids (funny how you get attached to a lump of plastic isn't it?) but I decided to start completely anew, and we don't really have the space for two pcs. So here is what I will be taking delivery of in two weeks:

Standard Features: 1.44Mb FDD, USB Ports, Mouse Mat
Processor: AMD Athlon XP (TM) 2700+ with Quantispeed Tech
Motherboard: ASUS A7N8X Latest Technology (USB 2.0 - 8x AGP - DDR400)
Memory: 512Mb PC2700 DDR Memory 333MHz (2x256)
Hard Disk Drive: 120Gb Ultra Fast with 2Mb Buffer (7200rpm)
Graphics: 128Mb ATI Radeon 9700 Pro (8xAGP) TV Out + DVI
Monitor: 17'' NEC DVi TFT Monitor
DVD-ROM Drive: 16x DVD (40x CD-ROM)
CD Rewriter: CD Re-writable (48x16x48) + Buffer Under Run Technology
Sound: Onboard Dolby Digital 6 Channel with SP/DIF & Soundstorm
Speakers: New Creative Labs Inspire 5300 - 5.1 Surround (where will I put all these speakers *eek* my desk is only 2.5 foot square!

)
Modem: 56kbps V92 Modem, featuring data and fax.
NIC: Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Adaptor
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech Internet Keyboard & Optical Mouse )
Software: Windows XP Pro/ Worksuite 2003 / Pinnacle Studio 8 SE

All in black

The Mesh Warranty (included in price):

3 years On-Site (parts and labour)
FREE Intelligent Recovery Software
FREE 24x7 On-line Technical Support
FREE Lifetime Telephone Support

Cheers guys!

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:06 am

I want your graphics card