Tactics

CM · Post by CM » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:24 am

I have no clue what i have installed. From TDD to Kelsey, there is a lot of stuff on my new install. But whatever it is, it is whooping my butt. Shadow theives that pop up from no where, wardogs by the half a dozen and hell i am still in the first level of Irenicus's dungeon.

Anybody have any tactics that can help me out?

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:45 am

You could try downloading teambg's mod switcher, or since you're only in Irenicus' Dungeon you could always just do a clean reinstall.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:56 am

Actually i like the new difficulty. But i want some help so i can survive the damn level.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:54 am

Congratulations, you have downloaded the Improved Iilyich (from Weimer's Tactics mod), which is the toughest beginning fight ever.

What class are you playing? I would recommend hit and run if you are a fighter, and summons if you are a magic user. Invisibility potions help too.

And if you have the Dungeon be gone mod, you can always opt out.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:20 am

Ah thats the one. Well not really. It is the improved Dungeon fights me thinks. Anyway i am thinking of trying my luck again for 2 days and then may opt out.

I have a Paladin and the usual 3 others.

Edit: You are right. Its been 2 years since i have played the game, might start off with out tactics first. Stick to the simple stuff.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:00 am

Tactics mod...

Having just installed it, I can say it's quite a lot harder.

Many of the fights involve initially invisible thieves - you want to scout invisible & aggro them onto someone with skins, so that initial backstab gets lost, then knock them down as fast as possible, since they also carry wands. The new middle-of-the dungeon monster is a pretty nasty fight, too, and I haven't progressed beyond Ilyich yet on that level, having headed down to the lower level first.

The new Ilyich & company is quite a fight. It appears doable, though ammunition is REALLY scarce.

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:42 am

do these mods come w/ increased xp for increased difficulty?

do these mods come w/ increased xp for increased difficulty?

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:43 am

Without cheese and powergaming, it's near impossible. I remember having to open and close doors just to escape from the planetar and duergars (sp?). The problem is lack of good ammunition. Ilyich himself is now a level 18 fighter and has loads of hp, as do the rest of his gang.

What I did was to lure his men one by one into the library and kill them one by one. Rest to regain spells if neccesary. Long process, in the end, I managed to pull through.

CM · Post by CM » Sun Mar 02, 2003 11:21 am

Like i said i havent played this for the past year or 2. Never actually finished TOB. Finished SOA only once. I will start the tactics mod once i know what is going on

But it was fun the first 10 times to see an Assassin kill me in 3 hits.

jerubal · Post by **jerubal** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:06 pm

Owch. I downloaded a tactical encounters mod that had things appearing around my hero. It's fine if I'm something like a Ranger, but I chose a Sorceror for my first game in a little while.

Don't get me wrong, the mod packs are fun, and a challenge, but god damn they can be tricky.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 11:25 pm

Tactics mod...

Only light cheese so far - I gave my main True sight 2X a day, in lieu of those stupid Larloch's minor drains. Without that, the thieves are really rough, as we seem to have no luck with the fear & cold wands.

Those guys seem to have hella good saves, too - this is wicked! Still trying to split Ilyich & crowd - two or more is pretty much certain death.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:28 am

me not good player, that is why me use bun bun....

hehehheheheh.,...hitting poor wes creations with a level 40 kensai super sorceror...

though, i am sure a little reading in the cheese guide will give you some hints and tips...

shameless self promotion here...

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:03 am

Well...

Cheese guide = teh win111111

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 5:16 am

Um....lemme get this straight...Ilyich is a level 18 fighter? And he's got a Planetar with him? At what level do you start? And is there better treasure in the game?

AG3 · Post by **AG3** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:43 am

Here is an exerpt from the readme (accuracy is not guaranteed, I just cut and paste the stuff):

As intimated above, the Improved Ilyich mod makes Ilyich and his cronies a
bit tougher. Well, more than a bit. Everyone in the group has 1 million XP,
except for the Priest (who needs more in order to cast Fallen Deva). You
can expect to face:

Ilyich - 12th level dwarven Barbarian. Watch out for his rages! He would
dual-wield a hammer and a sickle, but the sickle is not available in BG2.

Zhivago - 22nd level dwarven Cleric of Talos. Beware of his high-level
Cleric spells: Fallen Deva, Fear, Unholy Word, etc.

Karamazov - 12th level dwarven Wizard Slayer. The ranged support of the
group, Karamazov's spell disrupting abilities afflict anyone struck by
his crossbow bolts.

Rasputin - 12th level human Monk. Since he hasn't yet reached the
critical Monk magic resistance threshold, he can be considered the weak
link of the group.

Neophyte Glabrezu - 10 hit dice Demon. Has weakened Demonic Immunities:
notably, mundane weapons won't work.

Jailkeep Golem - 9 hit dice Construct. Just like the Jailkeep golem at the
beginning of the game ... but hostile!

The improved Ilyich mod component also replaces the normal "six goblin"
spawns with shadow thieves and in the first area. In addition, it changes
Ulvaryl, the Mephit Portals and some "six goblin" spawns in the second
area. Finally, it is now more difficult to sleep in Chateau Irenicus: you
will be interrupted by thieves.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:48 am

Level 18 seems about right, I think he's perma-hasted, too. He doesn't summon Planetars/Devas, but Rasputin & Zhivago both can. The upgraded Duergar group is:
Ilyich - dual wielding berserking fighter who leads off with a nasty AoE debuff (fatigue & slow)
Karamazov - Crossbowman. Ow!
Zhivago - Cleric, heavy on fast casting offensive spells
Rasputin - Mage (?) with nasty stunning blow melee attack
Jailkeep Golem - Stone Golem, more or less
Neophyte Glabrezu - lightweight Demon, with innate true sight

The loot is significantly better, but the fight is much much much harder. Your level, unless you hack it, is the same as the regular start. Fwiw, I cleared most of the dungeon before seriously attempting Ilyich & Co.

I finished it last night & used only light cheese - I hacked Yoshimo & Imoen's trap srtting skill and gave my main True sight X2 / day to deal with those pesky invisible wand (randomly fear, polymorph & cold) using assasins. Ilyich is easy enough to split off - the rest are a pretty beastly split - I had to use a lot of sniping and a couple of door tricks to get them apart. I just waited out the Planetar/Deva summons. The bolts of glory really got tedious. Interrupting the casters is really hard, they seems to be immune to web, have very good saves, and they all have lots of healing potions (well, except the pets).

All that being said, they could probably be taken down with no cheese or hacks at all, but it would be quite hard, particularly given Imoen's mediocre spell lineup. Resting doesn't help as much as it normally would, as you get a bonus assassin (with doggies) either on top of you or nearby each time. Still, skins and careful placement mostly suffice for those. Generally, skins were a big part of my strategy, but in the final fight (Zhivago & Karamazov, I just could NOT get them apart) we still got chewed up pretty good, as I coulod not get aggro control, though we did manage to keep Zhivago from getting too many spells off.

Fight order, in case you care, was
Ilyich
Golem
Rasputin
Glabrezu
Zhivago, then Karamazov

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:09 am

Well, two thumbs up to you if you managed yo beat a level 22 cleric at level 7/8...

Does the mod change anything later in the game?It sounds a bit like a masochist mod to me...

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:36 am

Well...

Don't forget, there were 5 of us, and we largely took them on one at a time. The Golem is (relatively) easy, too, because he just holds aggro on the same person constantly, so if they keep moving, he misses a lot, and you can often finesse the fight so that you're getting bops in with the others while poor Yoshimo is fleeing for his life. Traps help A LOT, also - they did a lot of the work in beating down Ilyich and taking out the demon trainee.

Tactics mod upgrades a variety of encounters - a nice summary is Here - and it can be combined with all other WeIDU mods, like Ascension, etc. Some of the upgrades are just AI - Golems throw stuff if you trap them in a doorway, for instance. Some things are still the same, like those two twits who attack you outside the Copper Coronet. Some things, like Ilyich, are MUCH tougher.

The main appeal of the mod is that it changes a game which has become essentially tivial to one that is quite a challenge - without having to solo (not my bag) or switch to insane difficulty level. There's some hilariously funny bits, too. The Ilyich dialogue with his minions is well worth a wipeout (or 6...

)

Thanks for the level/class clarification AG3 - though I would have sworn Rasputin summoned a Planetar and slung a few spells about - he was the easiest. Karamazov was a bloody nuisance - having a nasty ranged attack he was unsplitable, as was Zhivago who just kept slinging spells - being level 22, I'm glad I didn't just try to exhaust his spell lineup

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:35 am

The improved dungeon mod was specially made for people who complained that BG2 is way too easy.

Weimer made it hard as hell, even for those who don't play it straight.

I may have said this in another thread - the only cheeseless way to win Ilyich is take him and his guys out one by one. Hit, run, open doors, close doors, hit and repeat procedure. Difficult to do with 3 (or 4 if you took Yoshi), but doable.

Oh, and er, nephtu, you guys excelled yourselves. Well done!

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:10 am

Ilyich

Doors can help a lot.

We rested in Frenedan's outer room after doing him in, and the Shadow thief popped in the inner room, so we just left him there

Without using door/zoning tricks, the Deva-type summons would certainly have eaten us all.

To quote Minsc..."Great fun!"