Dragons

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Oct 23, 2000 4:17 pm

Someone posted mentioning that the dragon armor/dragon slayer make it easier to kill Firkragg...

Has anyone actually been able to walk up to dragons and beat them to death?!? It doesn't seem like I can survive combat with them no matter what I do. Firkragg even casts "Lower Fire Resistance" at highly resistant characters and since his attack is 'magical fire' it will even damage a 100% fire resistant character. Dragon breath is the only spell-like thing I have seen injure a character through a Protection from Magic scroll. Beyond that, wing buffet makes it very difficult to get into melee and even there they have great attacks (as you would expect). It seems silly to have armor and weapons for killing them when you really can't use them.

I have been able to kill them using the below 3 methods, but I want to be able to actually beat them down...can it be done?

1) Massive magical assault: summoned creatures to keep it busy, hit it with Lower Resistance, then barrage it with magic missiles. Even then a single blast of dragon breath killed Haer'dalis and just about took out half my party -- and I was trying to keep them spread out.

2) Long Range Cloudkill: Cast multiple cloudkills on it from outside its range of vision and wait until it dies (I used Incendiary Cloud/Meteor Shower for the black dragon). This works, but it's a cheap tactic that only works because the dragon is too stupid to realize it has to move or die and doesn't know where its attacker is.

3) Quivering Palm: You may have to reload and try a couple of times, but this has about a 1 in 3 shot of insta-killing a dragon with a level 13 monk. IMO this is just silly. It's a pretty funny picture though -- monk walks up to this towering dragon, takes one swing with his fist and the dragon drops dead.

Bordin_Steelaxe · Post by **Bordin_Steelaxe** » Mon Oct 23, 2000 4:49 pm

I don't think you can slay a dragon in direct combat, nearly impossible I would say, complete suicide...

You need the extra monsters and the spells in order to survive. Those dragon claws are really ouch ouch!

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Bordin Steelaxe
The greatest Dwarf in history!... with an axe of steel

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Oct 24, 2000 3:39 am

I found that the magic missile attack in conjunction with a few cleric spells (bolt of glory etc) worked pretty well, although i did melee the bastard a bit, with a Kensai, Minsc, Mazzy and Valygar. I was not at a paricularly high level, although it took more than one go.

I found that most fights especially dragons tend to be hard at first and then one spell or killer blow from your characters will turn the battle your way

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Tue Oct 24, 2000 6:19 am

I've killed both Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon in melee combat. But then again, I did have the people for that - four characters created by myself (priestess of Lathander, Fighter (berserker), Fighter/Thief and Invoker Mage), and Minsc and Valygar along. Outside the range of the Dragon, I cast every benificial spell I had memorized (Chant, Haste, etc..), and then walked up to the dragon. Neither Firkraag, nor the Shadow Dragon start off hostile (at least, that was what I had). I simply placed all my characters - except for the mage - around the dragon, spread out.

Then in both cases, I paused the game, clicked on him with my speech-icon. Then while still being paused, I selected the sword-icon with my entire party, and made a force attack on him, after which I unpaused. My fighter was equipped with the Dragon Slayer sword, by the way.

Because the Dragon seems to expect a dialogue, he waits a short while before turning hostile - and during that period you can hack away at him. By the time he really got hostile and started attacking himself, he was already badly injured.

It takes some tries, as the Dragon will still be deadly, but the jump ahead can spare you quite some damage.

[This message has been edited by Maurice (edited 10-24-2000).]

Bordin_Steelaxe · Post by **Bordin_Steelaxe** » Tue Oct 24, 2000 7:40 am

You can have Firkraag to be hostile if you choose to fight him (selected in the dialogue menu)

And then there is the Dragon in hell, it starts as hostile, too. Maybe you can avoid that one, but since I only tried it one time I fought him

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Bordin Steelaxe
The greatest Dwarf in history!... with an axe of steel

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 12:52 pm

i rushed my 3 killer machines (Main char-Paladin, Minsc/Korgan, Jaheira/Keldorn) to the Red dragon and let my mage (Aerie/Edwin)and thief/Druid (Nalia/Jaheira) do the long range with spell or arrows. and save my cleric (the ever sexxxy Viconia standing by for healing or resurrecting)...just try no to kill your main char if u play this way

Works for me all the time.
In addition some wands of summoning will differ the duration of the battle

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They can only kill me with golden bullet !

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Sat Oct 28, 2000 12:02 am

I dunno about Lord Jierdan, but I was able to kill the shadow dragon in a toe to toe fight.

In fact I was able to solo the shadowdragon with my main character, a Kensai/Mage.

While that does sound ridiculous it can be done. One of the biggest keys, believe it or not, is one of the earliest magaical weapons you get, the Flail of Ages. This weapon casts a no save slow spell when struck. Combine that with the Robe of Vecna's casting speed bonus and Boots of Speed, the fight becomes amazingly fair. While I did have to toss some spells like breach and some quick magic missles (courtesy of a minor spell sequencer) at him, most of the fight was melee.

You also need a very low THAC0 to do this, I had to come back after chapter 3 to pull this off, because you can get the Amulet of Power from Aran Linvail (another key item). The amulet makes you immune to level drains, which is a must.

Equipment/Spells I was using:
Lower resist, lowers +20% resist, AND it's cumulative!

Tenser's Transformation, doubles hp and raises combat ability.

Minor or regular Spell Sequencer, this is important because while under affect of Tenser's Transformation, you can't cast spells. But you can still use spells that you've stored up in a seqencer.

Contingency, same reason as spell sequencer.

Ring of Kangaxx, combined with Boots of Speed, you regen about 1 hp per second.

Breach spell, if you don't have this spell, and if he casts Protection from Magic weapons (and he will) you've already lost.

Robe of Vecna, makes most spell casts near instantaneous with it's -4 casting speed bonus. Also sets base AC to 5, awesome for kensai/mages.

Amulet of Power, Immune to Level Drain and another -1 bonus to casting speed.

Flail of Ages, no save slow, this works great in almost any tense situation, not just dragons. Make sure you have some skill in this weapon, 2 slots is enough, can't slow what you can't hit.

Celestial Fury, my most skilled weapon proficiency, thus giving the lowest THAC0 available to me.

Ring of Protection +2, more ac never hurts.

Sewer Cloak, more AC.

While these tips are specifically catered for the kensai/mage. I've heard of people who have soloed the dragon with a Half-Orc fighter/thief.

NOTE: Robe of Vecna is only available in the collector's edition.

rodster · Post by **rodster** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 2:50 am

I went toe-to-toe with every one of the creatures in the game and killed pretty much everything. My character, an invoker dual classed to a fighter (yes, you read that right, I chose to be a mage first--took a beating in HP, but those automatic saving throws of a high level fighter are indispensible), only took on a single NPC in the entire game and I finished it having killed everything, even Adalon and Drizzt. (That NPC, btw, was Valygar--can't make Crom Faeyr without getting into the sphere and you need Valygar for that.)

I could go into more detail about the strategy I used, but to make a long story short, every creature (or set of creatures, for that matter--I killed Drizzt's party, the twisted rune bunch, and the five creatures in hell with the same character unassisted) in the game can not only be killed in a slugfest, they can be killed with a solo character.

Bill · Post by **Bill** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 11:15 am

It is possible to kill dragons in this game by normal fighting (no "strange" tactics).I have played with two parties so far-beat the game with the first.
My first-and hardest-fight with a dragon in the game was with Firkraag.My party at this time consisted of:Axilleas(me-Cavalier), Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo,Nalia and Aerie.I was level 10 at that time so the fight was VERY difficult.(Note:For me a succesful fight means all your party members stay alive at the end.Also playing in medium difficulty)
I beat him with the flail of ages (stupid of me I didn't have the dragonslayer but i was getting +3 to hit dragons by my kit).Minsc used arrows of piercing - +4 THAC0).Yoshimo was a spectator - hard to do a backstab with Firkraag having so low AC) Nalia and Aerie used magic missiles (some of them can hurt him) and they summoned monsters (not all of them at once).
The most useful tactic in that battle was Jaheira's Insect Plague spell:If you get Firkraag affected by it he gets damage for a lot of time while you pound him.In one (of my many) try to kill him that way,he fled with terror and he was unable to attack (!!!)
Of course you have to use all your ptotections spells,haste etc.
Firkraag seems to be the most difficult dragon because you face him early in the game. The shadow and the black dragon seem easier to beat, but you are more experienced and better equiped (especially with the black dragon which apperars near the end of the game)
The second time i fought Firkraag i was playing at that time an all women party: Artemis(An imported paladin-now inquisitor- from one of my attempts in TOSC with good stats STR:19 DEX:16 CON:16 HP:116 using the dragonslayer), Mazzy, Viconia, Jaheira, Nalia and Aerie. This time,being more experienced i beat him easily (on my second try).
Bottom line: Try different strategies according to your party and equipment and try ALL your members to be involved in the fight,one way or another.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon Oct 30, 2000 8:43 am

I wonder if you kill lord Jeridan in the copper coronet if you still get his stuff

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Mon Oct 30, 2000 9:02 am

Hey now there's a thought! Though I'm pretty sure everyone in the bar will probably become agro. I've recently started a pure-elf fighter, and I think I'll be giving that a try.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Oct 30, 2000 11:35 am

I actually melee'd Adalon to a victory last night...didn't save it since it's a mostly Lawful Good party, but I wanted to see what was in her inventory. I walked up to her with my monk and cast Stunning Blow and Quivering Palm while using Celestial Fury. Unfortunately, she made all three of her saves on the first strike...

However, my three fighters were able to kill her just by attacking and using healing potions. They kept getting wing buffeted back and charging back in with the boots/natural fast movement. My mages did nothing except cast one Remove Fear. I did get a stun with Celestial Fury near the end of the fight. I had:

Monk (Celestial Fury, Boots of the North, Ring of Gaxx, etc.)

Keldorn (Carsomyr, Boots of Speed, etc.)

Anomen (Flail of Ages, Boots of Speed, Red Dragon Scale, Shield of Harmony, etc.)

Although a well prepared mage can defeat a fighter 1 on 1 any day, overall I think fighters are more effective in this game. Especially when they get high magic resistance and good saves.

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Tue Oct 31, 2000 10:32 pm

Well I attacked LJ in the copper coronet and he just used the dimensional door to teleport away, ah well. At least that didn't agro the entire bar.

Memnoch · Post by **Memnoch** » Thu Nov 02, 2000 1:54 am

I killed the Shadow Dragon after I came out of the underdark. It was a bit of a joke way though...I had one Scroll of Imprisonment that I bought there and I cast it on him. He vanished but so did his treasure, unfortunately

so I had to reload and do it again the hard way because I needed the Crom Faeyr scroll.

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The silent blade cuts best.

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:51 pm

I killed Firkraag with my Dual classed berzerker/cleric only, in melee only. i had the crom fayer and probably the best equipment one can get, but still. after using holy might among others i had 25 in dex con str, and all my resistances/special abilities didnt even fit on my character portrait, but i did kill him for sure.
Didnt say it was easy..

whitelight666 · Post by **whitelight666** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:27 pm

when i've faced dragons, i've used the same tactic as maurice, attacking before they could go hostile, and those battles were actually quite a disapointment...i killed all dragons on my first try and none of them lasted more than 20 seconds (on core rules with full party, 3 made chars 3 npcs) i had a couple wyverns summoned, a few other creatures, and some spell sequenced lower resists and holy smites.

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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats.
-H.L. Mencken

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:32 pm

if you can dispell the red dragons stoneskin
and haste you can beat him one too one. i had keldorn dispell him then my swashbuk fighter atacked on he's own, he was dualing
3+ hammer and 3+ katana but he died .so i reloaded and went with just the 3+ hammer and shield now i had an amrour class of -18 armour and the belt of crushing. before the red dragon was hitting me on all rolls above 5 with +4 damage,(i think)but now he could'nt hit me on anything less than a 9( well he missed on a 8) also he was now only doing 1+ damage and he only got off one dragon breath and wing bluff.I think he missed three times which gave me the time to kill him one to one. and i also used a potion
of absorbtion. but for a quick kill theres no better way than finger of death it does'nt always work, but for me its been 5 out of six. yours rowdin.

INEEDHELP · Post by **INEEDHELP** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:59 pm

personally ive never tried it, but im sure if you decide to slay the dragon after you get out of the underark that it could be done. i decided not to and killed him in chapter 3. The most efficient way i found to kill him was to position my fighters (Korgan, Minsc, and Anomen) behind Firkragg. I then had Viconia cast mag resist and my PC (conjurer) cast lower resist. As long as I constantly keep one melee fighter in front of Firkragg my mages (jan and myself) casted lightning bolt and magic missiles until he eventually died.

Satyr · Post by **Satyr** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 5:09 pm

1. Summon a bunch of creatures for cannon fodder
2. Haste, protect from evil, etc.
3. Move in a mage and cast Lower Magic resistance - run away
4. Send in the troops

This'll keep him busy roasting the fodder for a while. Have your mages move in and cast more lower resistance, breach, etc. for a couple of rounds, then move in with the heavy hitters and as many magic missiles as you can.

They're still tough, but without all the magics its a winnable fight - I did it in chapter two.

KN · Post by KN » Tue Mar 06, 2001 5:59 pm

I killed the black dragon and the red with my fighter/thief at the level cap. It took a couple reloads but was not very difficult. I just beefed my self up with potions and when ever I got low on hp's I would run around in circles and drink healing potions and then attack again. If I used a few traps it was very easy but I also did it without the traps just to see if I could.

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"Four thousand throats may be cut in one night, by a running man."
- Klingon Crewman "Day of the Dove"