Hello! Now i Finally know what to play for a character

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:34 pm

Hi!
I've been playing several characters for about 5 h each for some weeks now, just to scrap them and make a new one. But now i finally know what i want to do...

I've created a Fighter now, with these stats:
Str - 18/89
Dex - 10
Con - 18
Int - 6
Wis - 18
Char - 17

This Fighter i want to dual to Druid when he hits level 7 (or something), so here is my questions:

If i dual at level 7, will i be able to get my druid levels back in BG1, or should i dual when i hit BG2? I have TotSC isntalled, so i was wondering if the experience cap will alow me to to this.

Will i (when i export to BG2) keep my weapon proffs or will i replace them?

Thx for all the help, i know i've been asking alot of annoying Questions here, but it's a really good forum, with acctually good activity for such an old game.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:17 pm

Yes, you can get to level 7/8 as a Fighter/Druid with TotSC installed so you will get your Fighter skills back by the end of the game.

You won't be able to advance to 9th level Druid, however so if 5th level spells are important to you, you might want to sacrifice the extra hit points and THAC0 and dual your fighter at level 6. The advantage isn't woth it in my opinion, since Druids don't get great 5th level spells in BG1, but you should be aware of the issue.

As to weapon proficiency, you will have an opportunity to reassign the points in BG2. The system used there is completely different.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:22 pm

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
As to weapon proficiency, you will have an opportunity to reassign the points in BG2. The system used there is completely different.

Since the system is more specific in BG2, you have to chose almost exactly what weapon to use at the start of the game...... but it allows for much more different character developments and it makes it a tiny bit harder as you cannot just pick up any large sword type weapon instead of the two handed sword which just broke.....

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 6:17 pm

A thought..

Since the druid spells aren't stellar in BG1/TotSC you may wish to consider not dual classing untill BG2. You'll be a serious feeb for a bit, but the party can carry you through the tougher parts untill your level starts to catch up, and by then you'll be a pretty decent fighter.

I'd consider swapping those CHA points into DEX if I were you - 18 CHA is easily obtained in both games, and the AC bonus for high DEX is mighty nice for melee characters.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:11 pm

You can't be a Druid unless your Charisma is at least 15. (It's the only reason why Jaheira has Charisma of 15.) I've never understood why, because I have NEVER seen a charismatic Druid. But that's the rule.

I hate to cast any doubt on your plans, but if you're looking ahead, I think you should consider playing a multi-class Fighter/Druid. If you do, you won't have any problems importing your character into BG2. If you really want to play a dual-class character, then I would start a new character in BG2--a single-class Fighter--with the same stats as your old one (the same name, history, etc.) and let him advance to 9th Level or 13th Level before letting him dual-class to the Druid class. He would be a much better character that way. And if you start a new character for BG2, you can do whatever is appropriate in BG1 to get the best character and dual-class him whenever you feel it is best instead of worrying about the next game (which, in a way, doesn't make much sense).

I'm not sure why you want to play a Druid. If you're really into the role-playing experience, then that's great, and you should go for it; no further advice is needed from me.

But if you just want a character that can cast Druid spells, there's another class you might consider: a multi-class Cleric/Ranger. I played one and loved it. I had no idea how popular it was when I chose to play one, but a whole bunch of people felt just the way that I did, and it goes to show what a great choice it is. By the way, it's easy to roll a Cleric/Ranger with great stats because they have high minimum stat requirements: 13, 13, 14, 4, 14, 3. That's the WORST roll you could get. I just rolled one up and got 18/33, 18, 16, 10, 17, 10 in the first ten rolls. I just got 18/31, 18, 18, 10, 18, 10 on the 36th roll. You get the picture. Stats aren't everything, of course; the things that made my character so much fun were her spell-casting abilities and combat potential. I removed the experience cap and let her travel with Imoen, who was a 7th Level Thief dualled to a Conjurer. (I recruited Coran temporarily when Imoen lost her Thieving abilities.) I took advantage of all of their spells, skills, and items, and they rocked the house wherever they went. I've also played more "traditional" parties with six party members. Your character won't advance as quickly in a larger party, but a larger party offers more diversity and greater protection in a lot of situations.

The choice is up to you. If you want any more opinions, just ask.

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:00 pm

Thx for the feedback

Well i really like Druids, but it sucks quite hard to have a singleclassed one(at least in BG1), but that might be better in a roleplaying perspective. Also, i kinda dislikes the Cleric/ranger, cus i have some feeling it's kinda cheesy. You shouldn't have those Druidspells on the level.

Well i might yet go a multiclass Fighter/Druid. But they gain levels so slow.

Oh, and i needed 17 Charisma to dual to druid, so that explains the high char. had to sacrifice something, and dex was the ebst IMPOV, as it can be raised by gloves, and Con is really important.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:51 pm

Oh, now I get it.

Well, that answers the CHA query.

Ranger/Cleric is hardly a cheese class - the druidic spells are limited to level 3, so you don't get any of the REALLY cool ones regardless of level(Skins, bugs, Nature's Beauty, yadda yadda yadda). Call lightning is really great, but tragically limited in where you can use it. Part of the really cool thing about being a Ranger/cleric or fighter/cleric would be the spell compliment to Jaheira if she was in your party.

The cheesiest thing for any cleric+fighter combo, IMAO is the use of Draw Upon Holy Might - it's good even at level 4 or 5, and it just keeps getting better (at least untill you get Crom Faeyr late in BG2

). Now, if you hacked your cleric/ranger or fighter/druid to have full druidic AND clerical spells.....Yikes! THAT would be cheesy.

Multiclassed characters DO level slowly, but they ought to - the combinations can be pretty overpowered otherwise. Single classed casters (priestly or arcane) are much harder than melees or dual/multi class characters - at least untill the high end of the range, when those single class cats can really start to become amazing.

All that ranting aside, just play around with characters till you find the one that's right for you - Single classed druid or F/M/T or whatever catches your fancy. You'll know when you find it, because that character will make you want to play for 87 hours at a stretch. There are enough NPCs in BG that you can make about as balanced or skewed a party as you really want!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:12 pm

Re: Thx for the feedback

Originally posted by Vintersorg
Well i really like Druids, but it sucks quite hard to have a singleclassed one(at least in BG1), but that might be better in a roleplaying perspective...

What are you saying? Single-classed Druids suck?

Well, I don't know about that. I just don't like Druids very much because I can't get into the role of one. But if you want to play a Druid, then I strongly encourage you to follow your role-playing interests. Hacking and slashing is fun, but playing a character is more appealing to me.

Originally posted by Vintersorg
i kinda dislikes the Cleric/ranger, cus i have some feeling it's kinda cheesy. You shouldn't have those Druidspells on the level...

When it comes to pure D&D rules, you're probably right. But my opinion on the issue is, if the game allows it, then it's not cheesy, or at least not too cheesy to rule out playing. I assume that the game designers tested the character for balance, appropriateness, etc. and decided that it would be okay just the way it is, and I trust them.

Originally posted by Vintersorg
Well i might yet go a multiclass Fighter/Druid. But they gain levels so slow...

What are you saying? Multi-class characters advance too slowly? They get experience just as fast as any other character; they just divide it between their two classes. Wouldn't the alternative be, uh, cheesy?

At the very least, it would unbalance the game.

If you play a multi-class Fighter/Druid (or a Fighter/Mage or a Cleric/Ranger or whatever), chances are, you don't need as many NPCs in your party. If you have a smaller party, your character can advance much faster. So in my opinion, having this wonderful option gives multi-class characters a big advantage over single-class characters.

To be honest, I don't think there's too much difference from a practical standpoint between a Cleric/Ranger and a Fighter/Druid in terms of spellcasting ability and fighting abilities, other than a few spell "limitations" (which seem appropriate to people such as yourself who think that Cleric/Rangers are cheesy). If I enjoyed playing a Druid (or any Neutral character), I'd definitely play a Fighter/Druid instead of a single-class Druid. Looking ahead to Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal, you're in for a real treat. Jaheira herself is an awesome character if you know how to play her, and I enjoy having her in my party. That way, I can have a Druid in my party (eww)

without having to play one myself.

Originally posted by Vintersorg
Oh, and i needed 17 Charisma to dual to druid, so that explains the high char...

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:21 pm

(pure)Druid is a great class to play, ok it's not a solo class, and it would be hard to get the most kills, but it's a great character to have with you,
and some of the druids spells are realy good (if you only use it for summoning it's already very powerfull), and it can hit a creature or 2 with the right weaponary.
2bad about the armor restriction though, but that makes the game alot more chalaging.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 9:06 pm

Re: Oh, now I get it.

Originally posted by nephtu
Well, that answers the CHA query.

Ranger/Cleric is hardly a cheese class - the druidic spells are limited to level 3, so you don't get any of the REALLY cool ones regardless of level(Skins, bugs, Nature's Beauty, yadda yadda yadda). Call lightning is really great, but tragically limited in where you can use it. Part of the really cool thing about being a Ranger/cleric or fighter/cleric would be the spell compliment to Jaheira if she was in your party.

The cheesiest thing for any cleric+fighter combo, IMAO is the use of Draw Upon Holy Might - it's good even at level 4 or 5, and it just keeps getting better (at least untill you get Crom Faeyr late in BG2 ). Now, if you hacked your cleric/ranger or fighter/druid to have full druidic AND clerical spells.....Yikes! THAT would be cheesy.

Due to a bug in programming, Ranger/Clerics get to choose from all Druid as well as Cleric spells at the level of their Cleric class. Druid spells are not limited to level 3 as they should be for the Ranger class. This was changed in Icewind Dale but in BG2 all spells are available.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:10 am

They get both? Sweet.

Ooh....I didn't know that.

That is a bit cheesy - maybe I should dual-class Minsc

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:31 am

I thought

that it was the way IKack of Clubs said.

Oh, and my oppinion is that fighter druids shouldnt be allowed to wear nything greater than studden either.

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:58 pm

Re: Re: Thx for the feedback

Originally posted by VonDondu
What are you saying? Single-classed Druids suck? Well, I don't know about that. I just don't like Druids very much because I can't get into the role of one. But if you want to play a Druid, then I strongly encourage you to follow your role-playing interests. Hacking and slashing is fun, but playing a character is more appealing to me.

When it comes to pure D&D rules, you're probably right. But my opinion on the issue is, if the game allows it, then it's not cheesy, or at least not too cheesy to rule out playing. I assume that the game designers tested the character for balance, appropriateness, etc. and decided that it would be okay just the way it is, and I trust them.

What are you saying? Multi-class characters advance too slowly? They get experience just as fast as any other character; they just divide it between their two classes. Wouldn't the alternative be, uh, cheesy? At the very least, it would unbalance the game.

If you play a multi-class Fighter/Druid (or a Fighter/Mage or a Cleric/Ranger or whatever), chances are, you don't need as many NPCs in your party. If you have a smaller party, your character can advance much faster. So in my opinion, having this wonderful option gives multi-class characters a big advantage over single-class characters.

To be honest, I don't think there's too much difference from a practical standpoint between a Cleric/Ranger and a Fighter/Druid in terms of spellcasting ability and fighting abilities, other than a few spell "limitations" (which seem appropriate to people such as yourself who think that Cleric/Rangers are cheesy). If I enjoyed playing a Druid (or any Neutral character), I'd definitely play a Fighter/Druid instead of a single-class Druid. Looking ahead to Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal, you're in for a real treat. Jaheira herself is an awesome character if you know how to play her, and I enjoy having her in my party. That way, I can have a Druid in my party (eww) without having to play one myself.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

Thx, it'
s really nice to hear ppls opinnions. I was trying to make a Fighter/Druid a few moments ago, and it was sooo hard to get a really good throw, as i want high stats in all but Inteligence..

But now i did it, with the following...

Str: 17
Dex: 18
Con: 17
Int: 6
Wis: 18
Cha: 15

I feel very bad about the int, as it really feels like i'm trying to power game this char... I might do a new one, as i dont like my chars stoopid

As i said thx for the input.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:17 pm

If I were you, I would change the way your character's stats are distributed.

First of all, I think it's worthwhile to choose Strength 18/xx. The combat bonuses are just too good to pass up.

Second of all, I don't think there's much difference between Constitution 17 and Constitution 16. At half a hit point per level, I don't think you would notice the difference, and I would settle for 16. An extra point in Strength and Dexterity make a much bigger difference.

Furthermore, there might be a point when you want your character to read a scroll, and your character's low Intelligence might prevent you from doing that. I think the minimum is 9, but I'm not sure. I don't like going overboard on the "min-max" strategy, anyway. Even the example I used earlier for the Cleric/Ranger -- 18/33, 18, 16, 10, 17, 10 -- is almost over the line, in my opinion.

And finally, don't forget the Tomes and Manuals that can increase your character's stats. I know that "meta-gaming" is a little bit cheesy, but so are rerolling 200 times and using the "min-max" strategy and using items such as the Gauntlets of Dexterity or the Ring of Human Influence to make up for deliberately-planned shortcomings in your characters' stats.

Personally, I don't mind using the Tomes. I usually don't give them all to my main character; I let other party members have them if it will improve the overall party. For example, I sometimes give the Manual of Gainful exercise to Minsc and the Tome of Intelligence (whatever it is called) to Imoen, and I give the Tomes of Wisdom (whatever they're called) to Jaheira. This is an incentive for me to give my main character good stats to begin with. But in the end, I'll use the Tomes wherever I think they serve the best purpose. If it's so hard to get a good roll for a Fighter/Druid, the Tomes can give you some slack.

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:04 am

Well...

As i stated in my prev post, i really dislike the Min/max stating as you called it. But to be a Fighter/Druid, i really wanted 18 in Wis, and then 18 in dex, and then i don't know exactly an extra con gives you.

Well thx for your reply, you helped alot acutally.

Mister Popo · Post by **Mister Popo** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:43 am

Constitution is important for your hitpoints, as you will see in information or in the manual (at least the ToSC manual) you can have hitpoint bonuses for high Con.

I think (as it helps your fortitude, illustrated with the number of drinks example in the manual) it also helps your poison saving throws.

It's fairly nice to have a lot of hitpoints espec. as a mage I always liked the added bonus.

So you see that Con is important for all Classes, but in general I would go for Dex above Con and only get a high con for classes in which you know they don't get a low (or High depending on the set of DnD rules) armor class.

As Dex gives you to hit bonuses, and your a Fighter/Druid, I would try to max out Dex and let Con rest, maybe even lowering it to a "no-bonus" point total of twelve.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:33 am

Vintersorg, I'm glad that my opinions have helped you. I have enjoyed sharing them.

Judging by some of the comments I have seen in this thread, I think there's some confusion about the way that D&D rules were implemented in Baldur's Gate. BG is based on D&D, but it's not exactly the same as D&D. For example, I don't think that Constitution has any effect on saving throws in BG. The BG manual is also misleading. For example, the BG manual states that Constitution determines a character's chance to survive Resurrection, but it that's not the way the game works. Actually, all characters have a 100% Resurrection Survival rating because that's the way the designers decided to make it. The manual is wrong. The BG manual also states that Wisdom provides "Magical Defense Adjustments", but that was never implemented in the game. Again, the manual is wrong.

I admit that I'm still a little confused about Constitution hit point bonuses. Any character with Constitution 15 gets +1 hit point per level, and any character with Constitution 16 gets +2 hit points per level. A Fighter or Ranger with Constitution 17 gets +3 hit points per level; but any other character with Constitution 17 only gets +2 hit points per level. At Constitution 18, Fighters and Rangers get +4 hit points per level, while everybody else gets +2 hit points per level. I'm not sure exactly how it works for multi-class Fighters and Rangers. I thought that multi-class Fighters and Rangers got fewer bonus points than single-class Fighters and Rangers, but it's possible that they all get the same bonuses.

In any case, if a multi-class Fighter/Druid gets +2 hit points per level with a Constitution 16 and +3 hit points per level with a Constitution 17, I still don't the difference is significant. In your case, I would suggest taking a point away from Constitution (resulting in 16) and putting an extra into Strength (resulting in 18/xx). I would keep your character's Dexterity at 18. When you find the Gauntlets of Dexterity, i think you should give them to someone else, such as Dynaheir or Jaheira, so that everyone in your party will be a strong character. You could give your main character all three Tomes of Wisdom, so even if you started out with Wisdom 15 (and Intelligence 9), you could end up with Wisdom 18.

Looking ahead to Shadows of Amn, there are two more things that come to mind. First of all, there at least two more NPCs who could use the Gauntlets of Dexterity (Keldorn and Anomen). Also, if your character's Intelligence is low, you really need to watch out for Mind Flayers; their special attack could kill your character really fast. I really do think about that when I roll up a character for Shadows of Amn, and it's one reason why I don't give my character less than Intelligence 10. The other reason is vanity.

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:18 am

Thx all!
When you put it in that way VonDondu, it do really seem that that extra point would do more in the strenght apartment, isntead of slipping it into Con.

I always though of my Char as a smart char, so putting only 6 or even 8 Int to him is no fun at all, but i can't have everything it seems.

Again, thx for all the time you guys put into helping me, it was very kind of you.

Vintersorg · Post by **Vintersorg** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:52 pm

hmmm...

Never saw those, i used to do that in BG2, with the belt of Fortitude you get from Gal...

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:20 pm

@Vintersorg, why not *try* a single class druid through BG1/ToSC? That way you will get access to the higher level druid spells (some are awesome) and you will also get a choice of druid kits when you import your character into SoA (if you are dual class, you will not get a choice of kits). I did exactly this, and chose the Avenger kit in SoA (this kit allows a mage spell per level upto level 5). That said, the druid Avenger became insanely powerful by ToB

Also, re the stats, bear in mind that you will have tomes available throughout the game that will increase each stat by 1, wisdom you can increase by 3