I have created a new thief about a day back, now he has 19 dex, 21 str and all the rest on max (good roling belt of str ring of human .....). Now I figured this thief should be rather nice right ? Well to my horror he seems to need at least 10 swings at someone to hit. He has 1 point in dual wield, one in katana and one in longsword. He uses a katana and longsword as weapon. But problem is he seldom hits, he swings and swings but just doesn't seem to hit. Now with 19 dex shouldn't he at least hit most of the time ?
Anyone got an idea what could be wrong ? What could I do to improve his chance to hit.
Human Thief
lvl 11 ?
all stats maxed
EDIT
19 or 18 dex dun remember exactly it's max tho
My new thief and his horrible aim
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De_Priester
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JackOfClubs
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Thieves naturally have lousy THAC0. This can be improved by improving their stats (as you have done) but it will never be as good as a Fighter. If you decide to dual your Thief to Mage, you can eventually get the spell, Tenser's Transformation, which allows you to temporarilly fight as if you were a Fighter at the current Mage level, but IMHO it is not worth the trouble.
Also, as mentioned above, since you can only put one star in dual-wielding, you are going to have to live with a -2/-6 penalty. If your single-handed THAC0 is 14 or higher (which it will be for much of the game) you are going to have to get a critical hit on the off hand in order to strike anythng with armor class 0 or better.
Also, as mentioned above, since you can only put one star in dual-wielding, you are going to have to live with a -2/-6 penalty. If your single-handed THAC0 is 14 or higher (which it will be for much of the game) you are going to have to get a critical hit on the off hand in order to strike anythng with armor class 0 or better.
Resistance to Tyrants is Service to God.
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De_Priester
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im not sure how hit rolls are done but if you are fighting against melee based characters a thief will have a lower natural to hit roll vs a fighter, who will have naturally high ac, thus making it difficult to hit them. THiefs are melee characters for the most part, thus even with maxed stats will not hit like fighters in melee combat. Try backstabbing, that may work better.
I made the above statement based on what i have observed playing, I don't claim to be knowledgable in the least about the actual dynamics of the game, thats just the way it looks to me.
hope that helps
I made the above statement based on what i have observed playing, I don't claim to be knowledgable in the least about the actual dynamics of the game, thats just the way it looks to me.
hope that helps
If you bacstab you will get a nice little bonus to hit as well. Perhaps buffing spells as prayer and bless might help you. They stack and should end up giving you an additional +2 to hit and +1 to damage.
Anyway, a thief can not be used as a tank easily. That's what you have the tank classes for.
Rav
Anyway, a thief can not be used as a tank easily. That's what you have the tank classes for.
Rav
Your character's chance to hit is determined by a value called THAC0, which literally means "[roll required] To Hit Armor Class 0", if I'm not mistaken. For example, if your character's THAC0 is 15, then you need to "roll a 15 or better" to hit a monster that has AC 0. (The computer does all of the rolling for you, of course.) That gives you a 6 in 20 chance of hitting a monster that has AC 0, which will result in lots of misses. If a monster has AC 10, subtract 10 from THAC0 (which makes it much easier to hit); if a monster has AC -10, add 10 to THAC0 (that means it's almost impossible to hit). See how that works?
Dexterity has no effect on THAC0 in melee, although high Dexterity can improve your THAC0 with bows and other missile weapons. I presume you're talking about backstabbing and other attacks with a sword, so Dexterity is irrelevant. So are all of the other stats except for Strength.
High Strength can give your character attack bonuses. For example, a character with Strength 19 gets a +3 "to hit" bonus and a +7 damage bonus. Strength 21 gives you a +4 "to hit" bonus and a +9 damage bonus.
Proficiency points also make a difference. Weapon specialization (two **) gives you a +1 "to hit" bonus and advanced weapon specialization (three ***) gives you a +2 "to hit" bonus. With only one * in a weapon, you don't get a "to hit" bonus; what you get is no "to hit" penalty, which still counts for something.
Dual-wielding incurs "to hit" penalties. For example, if you try to dual-wield weapons without any proficiency points in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand will suffer a -4 penalty and the weapon in your left hand will suffer a -8 penalty. If you have one * in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand suffers a -2 penalty and the weapon in your left hand suffers a -6 penalty. With two ** in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand has no penalties, but the weapon in your left hand has a -4 penalty. With three *** in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your left hand has a -2 penalty.
To figure out your chance to hit, start with your base THAC0 (which is based on class and level), then subtract your Strength bonus, subtract any bonus your weapon has (for example, if you have a +3 sword, subtract 3 from your THAC0), and if you're dual-wielding, add the 2-point penalty to your right hand and a 6-point penalty to your left hand.
Suppose an 11th level Thief starts with THAC0 15 (I'm just guessing; I'm not sure what it is.) Take 15, subtract 4 for Strength, subtract 3 for a +3 weapon, and add 2 for your primary weapon and add 6 for your secondary weapon if you dual-wield. That means the THAC0 for your primary weapon is 10, and the THAC0 for your secondary weapon is 14. If you run into a creature that has AC -2, then you need to "roll" a 12 or better to hit it with your primary weapon, which means you will hit it 9 out of 20 times with that weapon.
I think you're just going to have to accept the fact that Thieves have a lousy THAC0, and you can expect a lot of frustration until you reach high levels and your THAC0 improves.
However, there are a few things you can do about it. For example, stop dual-wielding, and that will improve your chance to hit. Also, whenever your thief is hidden or invisible, you get a +4 "to hit" bonus, which really helps.
If you're really frustrated, you might also consider playing a different character (which is what a lot of people do). For example, Swashbucklers can't backstab, but they get substantial "to hit" bonuses which make them look good even next to Fighters. Fighters dualled to Thieves and multi-class Fighter/Thieves have much better THAC0 than single-class Thieves.
As other people have mentioned, spells that "buff up" up your character can also help. For example, Clerics can cast "Bless" or "Aid" on party members, and a Mage/Thief can cast Tenser's Transformation. The only problem is, your party needs to have that sort of spell-casting ability to use it, and the duration is limited, so you'll need to cast those spells frequently if you want to use them.
Dexterity has no effect on THAC0 in melee, although high Dexterity can improve your THAC0 with bows and other missile weapons. I presume you're talking about backstabbing and other attacks with a sword, so Dexterity is irrelevant. So are all of the other stats except for Strength.
High Strength can give your character attack bonuses. For example, a character with Strength 19 gets a +3 "to hit" bonus and a +7 damage bonus. Strength 21 gives you a +4 "to hit" bonus and a +9 damage bonus.
Proficiency points also make a difference. Weapon specialization (two **) gives you a +1 "to hit" bonus and advanced weapon specialization (three ***) gives you a +2 "to hit" bonus. With only one * in a weapon, you don't get a "to hit" bonus; what you get is no "to hit" penalty, which still counts for something.
Dual-wielding incurs "to hit" penalties. For example, if you try to dual-wield weapons without any proficiency points in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand will suffer a -4 penalty and the weapon in your left hand will suffer a -8 penalty. If you have one * in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand suffers a -2 penalty and the weapon in your left hand suffers a -6 penalty. With two ** in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your right hand has no penalties, but the weapon in your left hand has a -4 penalty. With three *** in Two Weapon Style, the weapon in your left hand has a -2 penalty.
To figure out your chance to hit, start with your base THAC0 (which is based on class and level), then subtract your Strength bonus, subtract any bonus your weapon has (for example, if you have a +3 sword, subtract 3 from your THAC0), and if you're dual-wielding, add the 2-point penalty to your right hand and a 6-point penalty to your left hand.
Suppose an 11th level Thief starts with THAC0 15 (I'm just guessing; I'm not sure what it is.) Take 15, subtract 4 for Strength, subtract 3 for a +3 weapon, and add 2 for your primary weapon and add 6 for your secondary weapon if you dual-wield. That means the THAC0 for your primary weapon is 10, and the THAC0 for your secondary weapon is 14. If you run into a creature that has AC -2, then you need to "roll" a 12 or better to hit it with your primary weapon, which means you will hit it 9 out of 20 times with that weapon.
I think you're just going to have to accept the fact that Thieves have a lousy THAC0, and you can expect a lot of frustration until you reach high levels and your THAC0 improves.
However, there are a few things you can do about it. For example, stop dual-wielding, and that will improve your chance to hit. Also, whenever your thief is hidden or invisible, you get a +4 "to hit" bonus, which really helps.
If you're really frustrated, you might also consider playing a different character (which is what a lot of people do). For example, Swashbucklers can't backstab, but they get substantial "to hit" bonuses which make them look good even next to Fighters. Fighters dualled to Thieves and multi-class Fighter/Thieves have much better THAC0 than single-class Thieves.
As other people have mentioned, spells that "buff up" up your character can also help. For example, Clerics can cast "Bless" or "Aid" on party members, and a Mage/Thief can cast Tenser's Transformation. The only problem is, your party needs to have that sort of spell-casting ability to use it, and the duration is limited, so you'll need to cast those spells frequently if you want to use them.