Originally posted by InfiniteNature Just got back from a emergency protest, a lot of angry people flicking of fingers, etc., we showed American flags, all that still you should be ashamed of yourself all that, oh well I guess some people equate against the war as against the troops.
Did anyone see that show on 60 minutes where they adressed the lack of protection the soldiers had to chemical weapons, supposably most of the suits that they use have holes in them or something, not sure which episode, I think maybe one maybe two weeks ago.
No.I did not see that..but it is alarming to think.
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde) The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
While everyone hears about how much money is sent into the military, the fact is they do not have the best stuff. For instance the plane my brother was to fly on had patched bullet holes from viet nam, half ass patches he said. I wouldn't be surprised.
Jackie Treehorn: People forget the brain is the biggest sex organ.
The Dude: On you maybe.
But then again... those lines of communication were unofficially closed long before now.....
And as far as telling sovereign nations to do the same.....
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
I think that the primary problem is not really the amount of money spent on the military but that most of that money goes into gadgets rather then soldiers, which is why a lot of soldiers have to live on food stamps.
That and money does not get spent as much on basic maintenance, instead most the funding goes into things like the F-22 fighter jet, or missile defense, or some other such boondoggle, but anyway off topic, I hope to hell everything goes well with this war, I really do, but in my opinion it will just get some people killed needlessly iniate a dangerous chain of events, and bear in mind just because I say this does not mean that I do no support my troops.
"In Germany, they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the homosexuals and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a homosexual. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me--but by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
But then again... those lines of communication were unofficially closed long before now.....
And as far as telling sovereign nations to do the same.....
I don't see how this can help anything, and in fact, I see it hurting a great deal. Many of these Embassies have been opperating effectively. I understand the closing of an embassy when the people's lives and safety are at stake, but in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, France, South Africa and Pakistan?
When you take away the words, bullets are all that is left...
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde) The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
Well the British and Australian troops have started their offensive. Does anyone have any info about the downed helicopter? I heard it briefly on the television but it chose to focus on the political debates instead.
@Tamerlane: I heard of a Blackhawk helicopter that went down - I think in a sandstorm. It was carrying special forces (I do not recall if a nation for the special forces was specified), but no casualties were reported.
(Too lazy to look for link to reliable source. )
Peace.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
Tam, I have been searching on Google, adn I cannot find anything more recent than the march 13 crash on a training mission in NY.......If I find anything, I will post a link.
Do you know if they were Australian, American, British, or from where?
Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde) The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
Originally posted by Scayde Do you know if they were Australian, American, British, or from where?
I fear they were Americans, but then again with the huge amount of special forces in the region its very hard to tell.
It was a Chinook, transport helicopter carrying up to 16 personnel. It did go down in Kuwaitt region thankfully, although the news on ABC (US) are declaring it the first casualties in the war. They didn't stipulate how the chopper crashed however
The BBC live update scroll bar have stated that 12 Americans and 4 British troops were killed in the incident. A formal news article with the details will be placed on the website soon.
I would like to share a conversation I had with my eight-year-old son today after I turned on the TV.
"Why are they fighting Mom?"
I explained the events that have led to this.. including mentioning the atrocities committed by Saddam Hussein.
"They always tell me when I am at school that if you have a problem with somebody you should go to an adult and have them help to sort things out. People who don't do that are bullies... Fighting always makes things worse."
I only nodded.....
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
Its almost humorous in a sick sort of way, the fact that probably most of the casulties in this war are probably going to be due to general incompetence and shoddy equipment, reminds me of the first gulf war when the worst problems they had were with friendly fire, like I said funny in a sick sad way.
I agree completely DW, and according to the CIA this war will make it worse by giving range to more terrorist attacks not less.
"In Germany, they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the homosexuals and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a homosexual. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me--but by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
Sometimes petty, little lives like my own seem very petty and very little indeed when faced with death and pain that others are enduring. What to do...what is 'right' with all the different views...
And so little tolerance for other views...
*Are* we protecting people by hurting them, how can this be so? Am I just not wise enough to understand?
Originally posted by Vivien Sometimes petty, little lives like my own seem very petty and very little indeed when faced with death and pain that others are enduring. What to do...what is 'right' with all the different views...
And so little tolerance for other views...
*Are* we protecting people by hurting them, how can this be so? Am I just not wise enough to understand?
*hug*
Viv, *hug*
If only those making the decisions possessed the sagacity to be asking precisely those questions...
I look at my son...his innocence... and I ask myself what sort of a world we are bequeathing him.... I wonder how wise I was to bring a child into a universe where might has become utterly synonomous with right. I go to rallies... and marches... and I wonder if my presence there even makes a difference. I ache for those whose homes... whose existence will be destroyed... I am so very sad, and so very angry....
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
Originally posted by Scayde @Tam:.There are so many sites...could you post the link to the one you are using? I am still having trouble finding it
Sorry, I should of stated that I was going to class, we managed to get a huge TV in to keep up to date with the conflict. I use this as its news reel is fairly useful and its quick to load unlike the flash intensive American sites.
@Voo: Yes, that is the term they are employing, but the first time I heard it used was in conjunction with Russia's policy of leaving nothing behind as they retread from Germany in W.W.II. It is not just the oil wells they are setting fire too, there have been reports of them sabotaging their own electrical plants, and planning on destroying dams. It matters not to the Iraqi people who wins this war, they will need their infrastructure when it is over.
This strategy was first (afaik) used majorly by the Russians in the Napoleon-Russian wars.
Russia was getting a sever beating by Napoleons troops but Russia knew how to beat Napoleon. By burning down fields(Scorched Earth) and destroying towns as they withdrew. Thus supplies for the french troops had to be transported a great distance, and this hindered Napoleons tactics greatly.
