Originally posted by fable
Now there are credible reporters on site, rather blatantly contradicting both US and Iraqi sources at times with on-the-ground observations.
Originally posted by Tamerlane
It hasn't been all good though, ignorant hackers keep shutting down Al-Jazeera and they aren't going to bring back up the english version as a result. I got re-directed before to a picture of the US with the word freedom written across it.
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- A Turkish Airlines flight from Istanbul to Ankara was hijacked Friday and was heading to Athens, Greece, private CNN-Turk television reported.
The Airbus aircraft was hijacked after takeoff from Istanbul and was approaching Athens airport, CNN-Turk television reported.
The plane at first diverted course and began heading toward the Aegean coastal city of Izmir, but later changed course again and began going toward neighboring Greece, private NTV television reported.
There was no information on the hijackers.
CNN-Turk television said 203 people -- 194 passengers and 9 crew members -- were aboard.
Originally posted by Tamerlane
It hasn't been all good though, ignorant hackers keep shutting down Al-Jazeera and they aren't going to bring back up the english version as a result. I got re-directed before to a picture of the US with the word freedom written across it.
How utterly ironic. American flags and the quote "Let Freedom Ring." All except freedom of the press, I suppose. Or perhaps the hackers don't think freedom of the press applies in other countries, especially if that press is saying something they don't likeOriginally posted by Tamerlane
It hasn't been all good though, ignorant hackers keep shutting down Al-Jazeera and they aren't going to bring back up the english version as a result. I got re-directed before to a picture of the US with the word freedom written across it.
Coppied from the signature of Der-draigen
My avatar expresses solidarity with the courageous men and women of the coalition forces currently laying their lives on the line in Iraq. May God bless, keep, and protect them, especially the POW's and MIA's. May they be defended from all evil, and soon come safely home.
My prayer extends also to the Iraqi civilians, and all civilians living in war-zones around the world.
Originally posted by Der-draigen
How utterly ironic. American flags and the quote "Let Freedom Ring." All except freedom of the press, I suppose. Or perhaps the hackers don't think freedom of the press applies in other countries, especially if that press is saying something they don't like
I used to read articles from both Al-Jazeera and BBC to help formulate my own ideas. The Basra humanitarian crisis was a huge eye opening experience for me as Al-Jazeera had a lot more freedom then that given to the reporters embedded within the coalition units. Originally posted by Tybaltus
Thats very interesting....yes, it looks exactly like Vietnam. Reminded me of a scene from Apocolypse, Now!. Saddam is a smart man, and he knows what the Vietnam war did to the US troops and the continuing decrease of the army's morale. As the troops went marching through Vietnam, they realized, while they were killing much of their opposition, the enemies just kept coming and coming. It was seemingly endless...when the US realized they were not truly getting anywhere in the war after all the trauma and loss, it just KILLS morale. I wonder if the Iraqi war will do the same.
If Ive said it once, Ive said it a thousand times, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
It was an interesting study of what really is turning out to be another Vietnam. This has been my impression as well as I peruse the news reports from various sources...Originally posted by Lazarus
Anyway, I think we agree, even if we look at the thing from different angles. Take this recent killing of 15 civilians by a US missle, for example. Now you say that it was a US missle, and it killed 15 civilians. This information, as far as I have been able to track (as of 08:35 central time, US) is from Iraqi cources.
<snip>
Now, I would guess that it probably was an American missle that killed those people. But I certainly won't take the Iraqi's word for it, and they are the only ones able to give any information at this time. So, I think that your saying it was and American missle is a bit pre-mature. Again, all I ask is that everyone be skeptical. The US has been perfectly willing to admit when they kill the wrong people (as evidenced by admitting the killing of the Syrians, and also of their own troops in "friendly fire" incidents). So, wait to see what they have to say, before jumping to conclusions.
Isn't that reasonable?
and I think your proposal that we must wait and see regarding all information, is reasonable. Regarding the 15 dead civilians at the market, I trusted the information because when I read it I got the impresssion that it was independant Red Cross workers who had confirmed the origin of the missile. (I might have misunderstood or mixed the sources up since I was in a hurry and at work). My mistake there. Yes that happens sometimes, but it is only part of the problem since it is also a well-documented trick by the military of many nations to claim that civilians are not civilians just because a few people in a group are armed. In Canada and the US, many people are armed although they aren't policemen or military staff. Would you define them as "not civilians"? Probably not.posted by Chanak
This is where it all becomes confusing...for there are a number of paramiltary groups and militias within Iraq that the regime there terms "civilians"...they did during the Persian Gulf War, and apparently they're doing it now.
Basra seems to be a nightmare situation right now, there are reports of regime-friendly military attacking the civilians, and at the same time they are running out of clean water. However, according to the reports I have seen it is most likely that the destruction of the water utilites was caused by bombings by the US/UK.A brief comment on the lack of utilities in Basra: one stated objective of Coalition forces right now is the preservation, whenever possible, of the infrastructure that already exists within Iraq, to the exclusion of military targets. Iraqi troops, militia, and paramilitary groups have been busy destroying these things behind them as Coalition troops advance. This is also what happened in Basra, unless I have been misinformed.
I cannot comment on the situation in Iraq since I have no more information than everybody else, but regarding Somalia 1993 there are independant reports (the Canadian report is confirmed by US officials I think) and hundreds of people including women, elderly and children were murdered by the US/UN forces. A bleak and tragic failure for the US and the UN.posted by Scayde
It is unfortunate that many of these people are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, much as they were in Somalia, but the fact is these 'civilians' are often in fact armed militia. Rather they are coerced, or acting voluntarily, the soldier being fired upon has no way of knowing.
Originally posted by Scayde
Does anyone have more information on this? .Is it related to the war?
Yes. The opening paragraph speaks volumes...Originally posted by Sojourner
It seems more than a few are starting to come to the same conclusion. Here's an interesting read: Smells Like Vietnam
We have done this before. The US has, historically, been very ignorant about looking closely at the countries they go invading. The US has difficulty looking through the eyes of the others, only seeing through our eyes.Once again, in its haste to get its war on, the U.S. has gone into a foreign land, ignorant of its culture, believing that its technological might would lead to a swift victory, forgetting the force of nationalism when a people believe themselves to be invaded
Originally posted by Tybaltus
Using force and over powering is like shaving. You remove the hair that sticks out initially. Everything looks so smooth and nice. But the seed is still there. It will grow back and be just as prominant as it was before.
Originally posted by Nightmare
Earlier in the week, the US ambassador to Canada enforced the whole "Either with us or against us" rhetoric, when he made a speech to Canadians, saying that The White House was furious with Canada and that there might be economic reprocussions (which will be devestating to us).
