Seeking New Employment

josh · Post by **josh** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:49 am

I don't have experience with the process of getting a job but doing some research on your prospective employer won't hurt. Impress them with your extensive knowledge of their organisation and tailor your application letter to show what you can offer.
(Maybe you already know this)

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:15 am

Good luck Sleepy...my advice may differ slightly from what other people have written, these are the things I think you should focus on:

1. Decide what type of job you want. Different fields have different "traditions" or culture when it comes to what factors potential employees are focused on.

2. When you have decided what kind/s (hopefully you can think of several different kinds) of job you'd like, talk to people who currently hold similar jobs. Ask them how they got into it, how they got their current position etc. This will also help you to get in touch with the right people, and word will spread that you are interested in that kind of job.

3. I agree with the others that you should have a good CV, so you don't become sorted out from the start. Well written, not too lenghtly, and with some personal detail in it. Don't be afraid to write what you are good at, but (and this goes for interviews as well) do it in a stragihtforward, factual way. Never describe yourself in general, superficial terms like "I have good social skills", "I have have humour", "I am creative", etc. That just sounds ridiculous since it's soo bloody obvious that nobody would describe themselves as humourless and lacking social skills in a job interview. Instead of using such labels, describe what you are actually good at.

I might be able to come up with some more advice when I know what kind of jobs you are interested in! My personal experience in job-hunting is probably not worth much to you since academia is very different from the business world, and my line of research has little similarities with normal jobs. When you start in my field, it doesn't matter what knowledge you have, what is on your CV or if you look smart and seem nice and polite. At my lab, none of this matters....the only thing that matters is how much passion for science do you have, how good are you at thinking out principally new things, how much are you willing to sacrifice for science and how fast can your brain process information. That was the main components of my 4-hour job-interview for this position several years ago

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:45 am

You've already been given some excellent advice, especially in the post right above

Just remember that you are a wonderful, smart, talented, deserving person. You are worth whatever job you set your cap for!!

P.S.
I do have some "in's" you know. If you wanted to move to Minnesota that is.

Maybe a trainer of newly hired flight attendants? It's a demanding job requiring long hours in a room full of women watching your every move. I'm sure you'd do just fine!

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:15 pm

Send your CV to jobs that only ask for an application form anyway.

Tailor your CV for each job applied for - don't just use a generic one. Address each point in the job description and person specification that you can without lieing.

The only sections on your CV:

basic personal information {name, address, contact details}
education {schools, courses}
qualifications {IT skills}
previous jobs{how you match the job decription, how you match the person spec}

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:00 pm

As Grunt suggests, don't create a generic CV. Or rather, do so, and use it as a lengthy template--remove and shape various entries for each new job application.

Keep a good, upbeat attitude going. I don't think this has been emphasized, here, but it's important. It's all too easy to lose sight of your goal, and become despondent over a few job refusals. Don't let it get to you. Unless you happen to be in one of those fields where headhunters come looking for you, job refusals are a part of the game. Pace yourself, rely upon your network of friends to keep buoyant, and continue sending out those CVs. At least one will eventually stick. And good luck.

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:07 pm

OK, Sleep, I am currently a recruitment consultant - that is my job. I see loads of CVs every day. I did go to drama school and know lots of people still struggling to be professional actors.

Anyway, my advice is don't be afraid to embellish your CV. I'm not saying tell lies but embellish it and make sure it's interesting and memorable. Don't fade into the background - that's the last thing you'd want to do!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:57 am

Thanks again everyone, you have your uses you know

Originally posted by C Elegans
1. Decide what type of job you want. Different fields have different "traditions" or culture when it comes to what factors potential employees are focused on.

It pretty much has to be IT related, not necessarily exactly what I envision for myself in life but it's what I'm good at and the most likely to get me a job. Still I'll look around for other things too.

word will spread that you are interested in that kind of job.

A friend has given me an application that has to be in pretty soon, first one and it actually looks about right, double what I'm being paid now and where I want to go, you know I might get lucky and have the first application accepted and never have to go too long into the job market.

do it in a stragihtforward, factual way. Never describe yourself in general, superficial terms like "I have good social skills", "I have have humour", "I am creative", etc. That just sounds ridiculous since it's soo bloody obvious that nobody would describe themselves as humourless and lacking social skills in a job interview. Instead of using such labels, describe what you are actually good at.

Good point.

I do have some "in's" you know. If you wanted to move to Minnesota that is.

Maybe a trainer of newly hired flight attendants? It's a demanding job requiring long hours in a room full of women watching your every move. I'm sure you'd do just fine!

Sounds like the perfect job, I have lots of experience with watching and conversing with women, perhaps I have found the perfect job after all.

fable, that's what Viv is for, when it's all going horribly I can talk to her and she will be extra nice and all will be well again

Good advice, thanks.

Enchantress, embellish to what degree? For instance, I've constructed entire networks of 12 PCs but they weren't running off a main server, not in the normal sense, so when I mention the networking should I just not mention the bit about servers?

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:39 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Enchantress, embellish to what degree? For instance, I've constructed entire networks of 12 PCs but they weren't running off a main server, not in the normal sense, so when I mention the networking should I just not mention the bit about servers?

I just meant sell yourself. Show your flair. Remember that each employer has probably seen dozens of blokes just like you.

What I mean by "embellish" is exaggerate one or two of the facts slightly if it helps your purposes and it's not too big a porky. Show yourself in the best light possible.

That's what I'd do, but then I've never done a technical job - most have the jobs I've done have been performance orientated in some way and my CV at times has been part fiction, part fact. However, I'm confident about that and I usually get jobs that I interview for. Whether I'm any good at them is a different matter, of course.

So be exciting! Be unusual! Make them remember you! Tap dance on their desk!

Hope that helps.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 6:49 am

Originally posted by Enchantress
So be exciting! Be unusual! Make them remember you! Tap dance on their desk!

In my speedo?

With technical things, assuming ones future employer has any clue, there are usually specific things one has done with specific equipment or software so it's a little difficult to say one has used it and then later have no idea.

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:11 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
In my speedo?

With technical things, assuming ones future employer has any clue, there are usually specific things one has done with specific equipment or software so it's a little difficult to say one has used it and then later have no idea.

Fair enough. Don't lie then.

But still be a creature unlike any other and make them fall in love with you.

Speedos? Hmmm. With a tie?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:26 am

Originally posted by Enchantress
But still be a creature unlike any other and make them fall in love with you.

Well I don't know of any moomins, maybe that's the creature I'll go for.

Originally posted by Enchantress
Speedos? Hmmm. With a tie?

Depends on how formal I'm feeling. Sorry, I'm being silly now, your advice is appreciated

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:05 am

Mr S, I've never been a DBA, but I have administered and managed a host of Databases. Therefore, I tell people I was a Database Administrator.

You must be able to list your IT skills in one section -

"Thorough Knowledge of...."
"Experience of...."
"Training in...."
"In house course in...."

etc.

If you don't know it, don't lie. If you can get by but haven't had a job using it, I'd say that's "embellishment" in IT circles. I have only done 1 VB course at university but I could survive in a job that needed it. In fact, that's what I'm doing with open source web software at the moment (though its only 1/5 of my role).

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 12:20 pm

Originally posted by Maharlika
An orc? Well, I was actually thinking of Kayless' Khaggoth should he decide to put his DCI into a movie.

Auditions are already under way.

Sean Connery is on board and Spielberg is helming the project.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:46 pm

Originally posted by Kayless
Auditions are already under way. Sean Connery is on board and Spielberg is helming the project.

I got the voice of the grasshopper! Hope he's done in claymation...

Good luck @Sleepo.

Remember it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and there ain't enough dog to go around (or something).

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:51 am

Originally posted by das_hermit
I got the voice of the grasshopper! Hope he's done in claymation...

Sorry, but Jim Carrey already got that part. And it's being done in shoddy, unconvincing CGI, not claymation...