Coming soon - a monk in Argyle

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:44 am

I have no idea if any of you recall me, but I joined the BotB guild some time ago, and have never yet been in Argyle. The problem lay in my computer, which never did run NWN with any reliability.

I am hoping now, however, to buy a new computer (see my post in Tech Support

), and I think once I have done so, I will try to get into the Argyle world.

I just thought I would re-introduce myself, and ask if anyone has any quick advice or information I should be aware of. I've looked through this forum from time to time, so I know some of the basics (read the lore, and be prepared to die

), but let me know anything you may think worth mentioning.

Oh - one thing (which I am sure I could figure out by going to the Argyle site, but I'll ask here anyway): so, if I have gone through the trouble of getting my character (der Moench) properly approved by the folks at Argyle (and I have), and then he dies ten minutes after landing in the world, do I then have to create an all-new character, get him approved, and start again? This makes a difference to me, because if I can't re-try with the same character, I would like to "practice" with someone other than my namesake!

Any advice is appreciated.

smass · Post by **smass** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:13 am

Argyle does not require you to get "approval" for chars in advance. It is suggested and encouraged to submit a bio at some point. This way dms can include plans for your char for quests and the like.

Don't expect your first few characters to live very long - it is good to have a basic character background - but don't go into much detail until you get a character that lives for a while. Then I would create a more detailed background and pm it to the dms (instructions for this are on the forum). That way you may have some custom quests created for your character.

I have seen a few people start on AO and get immediately frustrated because they lose their first few characters very quickly. For this reason if you have a favorite character concept it may be better to play with some other characters first to get the feel of the world - that way you can bring out your near and dear character later when you have more experience and more of an idea of how to survive.

Some suggestions:

- Always travel with a party if you can - others can heal you if you fall.
- If soloing - run early if you are in trouble - if you wait until you are at 2 hps to run - you will invariably be cut down by an attack of opportunity as you turn tail.
- Play a cleric or druid to get used to the world - the healing spells help with survival early on. Just be sure to choose the approved domains from the lore for your god.
- Expect to lose chars - you will - I have had over 80 chars die in combat. If you play a headstrong fighter who charges in to battle you will die quickly.

Lastly - because you seem to be very enthusiastic about your character concept I would caution you not to be too attached to it. Death in Argyle - for combat oriented chars anyway - is a fact of life. I would be prepared to move on if your blades char dies. When my favorite char died I was really upset for a few weeks - but I got over it.

Good roleplayers are always welcome on Argyle - I just hate to see it when a person joins our world with the wrong expectations - and then leaves in a huff when his/her character bites the dust.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:47 pm

Thanks, smass!

And thank you for the computer-purchasing advice in the tech support thread.

I am quite enthusiastic about the characters I create, and so the prospect of watching them get hacked one after another is a bit of a bummer.

It almost makes me want to just set 'em up as "Fighter1," "Fighter2," "Fighter3," ... but I will try to maintain some happy medium between getting too involved in one, and creating many just for throw-away.

I do like the sound of Argyle: tough. My old DM in PnP D&D was the same way. And I hear that Argyle treats magic weapons like he did too: don't ever count on seeing one! So, in some respects this was the way I was brought up. But CRPGs have spoiled me.

They make it too easy to create great characters, kick butt, and never have to worry about the consequences (can you say "Quick save" - ?

).

Anyway, I expect to be up and running around mid-July with the new system, and though my time on-line will be limited, I hope to see you there!

Peace.

smass · Post by **smass** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:42 am

Since I am bored at work and can talk about Agyle all day I thought I would post some tips on Monks in argyle. I am going to label these as spoilers in case you want to experiment yourself - not like these are major secrets or anything - just wanted to give you the option.

*Possible spoiler alert*

Monks in Argyle have it very hard at the outset - for one thing they start with the least amount of gold - around 20 if I recall - not even enough to buy a crossbow. This coupled with their AC limitations make them very vunerable at low levels. I have played many monks and hybrid monks and find that a cleric/monk combo can be effective. Basically - take the level of cleric first - this gives you some more gold to start and access to healing spells. A particularly nice choice is an elf cleric/monk. In Argyle clerics have to choose the specific domains for their gods - in this case you could make a cleric of Emeloth - the god of magic. This gives you access to the magic domain - for the monks favorite spell *drumroll* Mage Armor. So not only can you heal yourself - but you get mage armor to boost that AC.

I favor Elves overall for monks for the following reasons - it is important to take a high dexterity for the AC bonus and ranged weapon bonus. This coupled with a high wisdom can give your monk a respectable AC. Elves have a bonus to dexterity so it gives them an advantage in the point buy system. An elf monk can come out with the following stats:

S-12
D-18
C-12
W-16
I-10
Ch-8

This gives you a good finesse type monk with an unbuffed AC of 17 - not great - but he can survive a bit. The most important thing is to take weapon finesse as a feat- this gives you a decent to-hit modifier - weapon finesse allows you to use your dex modifier when attacking with your fists - This is absolutely necessary if you plan on hitting something before it hits you. Also you will be good with ranged weapons and can use a bow or a crossbow (monks can use crossbows and elves can use bows due to racial feat). The elf is the only race that allows you to get the 18 dex and 16 wisdom without minimizing strength and constitution - something I would not recommend. Also minimizing intelligence is frowned upon - an int under 10 means you can't speak well and the dms will rightly expect you to roleplay you low stats - so unless you want to play a moron elf ninja - leave intelligence at 10.

The other type of monk is a power monk - with more points in strength - he will do more damage - but his AC will be poor and he will not live long.

If you make the above suggested elf and start him as a cleric - he will have 21 AC with Mage armor, good to hit and AC, good ranged weapon capabilities, and the ability to heal himself. Oh and make sure you take advantage of "flurry of blows" as well - the two attacks per round is well worth it for the -2 attack modifier.

Follow this guide and you too can become an official "Elf Ninja of Arygyle"

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:17 am

Also, visit the Argyle forums, and have a chat with Fenriz. He's been the most successful Monk, post server changes. He might have a thing or two to add to it.

But, don't go looking at me for help. I'm usually the fighter cleric running around slaying undead.

smass · Post by **smass** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:11 pm

OK - I am stilll bored - and since Aegis brought it up - I have played a ton of fighter/clerics as well (with over 85 characters since November I have played a lot of everything).

So - without further delay - here is the guide to creating the ultimate Elf Fighter/Cleric:

Spoiler Alert:

OK kiddies - surviving on Argyle to get to level 3 or 4 (after which dying is almost a certainty - just ask Aegis

) can be helped by choosing the most effective race/class/feat combination. I play a lot of elves - cause they rule - and the fighter/cleric is perhaps the most powerful. Here's why:

Start with a level of cleric - choose cleric of Sonas (Argyle God of the Sun/Nature) so that you can take the plant and sun domains. This will give you access to barkskin at level 3 - you will see in a moment why this rocks. The following stats would be recommended for a melee oriented fighter cleric:

S-16
D-12
C-14
I-10
W-14
Ch-8

Elves are usually better at finesse skills because of their dexterity bonus - but here I want a a close combat undead killing tank. I think you can get strength to 18 and sacrifice constitution - but I do not recall. Anyway - you want this character to wear the best armor possible - get to full plate as soon as possible. To start get chainmail (you will just be able to afford it) and a tower shield - your AC will be 19 with the tower shield. Once you get full plate you will be AC 22 with the shield. Starting feat would be power attack - I love cleave for front line fighters.

The elf also makes a good straight cleric because elves have access to longswords - one of the best one handed weapons - by virtue of their class benefits. I personally like to take a level of fighter next - to get another feat - and choose cleave - by this time I will have some decent gear and decent to hit and damage -with a great AC. Cleave makes goblins fall like wheat.

For 3rd and 4th level take cleric levels - when you are Cleric 3/fighter 1 you will have access to second level cleric spells - and the plant domain give you - barkskin baby. You will also have another feat at level 3 - I would go with dodge or toughness.

Now you are AC 22 (with full plate), 26 with barkskin, and 28 with protection from evil (1st level cleric spell). You also have bulls strength - getting your strenght in the 18-22 range for 3 hours. You can take on a lot of tough melee oriented characters at this point. For undead - your Sun domain makes your turning skills even better as well.

Anyway - I know no one asked - but that is my recipe for the ultimate Elf Fighter/Cleric or straight cleric. If you don't take the fighter level you will have to wait until level 3 to get cleave - but you will get barkskin faster. This character can be achieved with a human as well - but humans suck.

And yes - I know druids get barkskin too - but a druid in full plate is just not in character and the dms will not like it - not to mention the animal companion is powerful - but cheesy - and on Agyle you have severe penalties when your companion dies - making the cheesy tactic of using your animal companion for a meat shield unfeasible.

If I get some time I will focus on the fighter/rogue - my new favorite. Or just let me know if I am boring you to death and I will stop and do 50 pushups.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:25 pm

One piece of advice ... carefull about taking charisma to a to low score.
Many people will ask and respond to charisma throws and persuades.
Low charisma might help you boost other stats but can make your character disliked

(in-game of course

)

Also remember charisma have influence on many classes for example clerics.

I, when I played Argyle, have yet to make a character with under 12 charisma

smass · Post by **smass** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:42 pm

Good points Xandax - but I have both a power gamer and a roleplaying reason for minimizing the score.

Powergamer view - The 1 or 2 modifier points makes a small difference. In argyle we are talking about making charisma rolls for first impression, etc. The roll itself is much more important than the modifier. You could have an 18 charisma and have a low roll and it will not help.

Roleplayer view - I personally have no problem with a low charisma monk from an rp standpoint - they are supposed to be loners to an extent anyway. The cleric with low charisma is a bit more troublesome. My elf characters are usually rather antisocial - at least with other races. I play very racially bigoted elves - and this fits their personalities.

On the other hand - when I play most characters I take a 10 in charisma for the same reason as I take at least a 10 in intelligence. But this is just a guide - so take the scores you like.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:32 pm

Dwarves make unstoppable fighter/clerics, too.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:42 pm

Wow - replies!

@Xandax: Charisma is an issue. I hate to drop it just for the points, but, like smass, I sometimes think it fits in for the character I have a few character ideas (see below), and a number of them take that 8 Cha. I do like to hear that people are asking for Cha roles, though. It looks like we will all have enough characters to try out that we can see what works, and what we like.

@smass: Sorry!

I should have been more explicit. When I said a "monk," I meant the old fashioned kind - a cleric. You should be able to find my bio on the BotB website maintained by Xandax.

However, considering the number of characters I will burn through before getting into the swing of things in Argyle, I am sure there will be a monk or two in them - so your advice is not wasted at all!

Specifically, I listed a number of names in the other (stickied) thread. They are: Gregor von Stein, a dwarven fighter; Siegrune Valkyrie, a human paladin; der Moench, a human cleric; Fricka vor Schatten, a halfling (maybe human, maybe elf) rogue; Daemmerung, a human monk; and, August von Wald, a human ranger.

For comparison to your numbers, my monk (Daemmerung) shows stats:

Str 13
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8

(Truthfully, I will have to check back in at Argyle, and see if I have their point-allowance correct. I think all of mine are on the 25-point scale, and I heard there was talk of changing that. EDIT: According to Xandax's BotB site, we are up to 30 points now? Woo-hoo!)

@Nightmare: I do like dwarven fighter/clerics.

I may very well try one out in Argyle. If so, his name would be Fromme Gregor.

However, in general, I am not real keen on multi-classing - fighter/rogue, and fighter/cleric are really all I ever do as multi-classed - because sometimes, it just seems like the class combinations are so obviously meant for power-gaming that it turns me off. But I'll be playing around with lots of ideas, I am sure.

Keep up the comments.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:08 am

Remember - the BoTB site is groesly outdated - it have not been updated for a long long time - only reason it is still there is beause remnants of the guild still exists.
Most people don't play NwN in Argyle and BoTB has all but died - untill some are willing to resurect it and then I can start making a website over it again (after exames

).

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:07 pm

@Xandax: That's OK, I'm grossly outdated too!

But I'll be ordering the new computer tomorrow, and hope to be playing around in Argyle sometime this summer. Look for characters tending towards neutral and good alignments, with German-sounding names, and that may be me!

See you there.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 10:31 pm

Originally posted by smass
Argyle does not require you to get "approval" for chars in advance. It is suggested and encouraged to submit a bio at some point. This way dms can include plans for your char for quests and the like.

It is, however, strongly encouraged, and even expected that you be familiar with the world of Argyle. This included reading the lore on the forums.

There are also some very helpful stickies for new players to read through on the forums.

And I do remember you, der Moench, and I'm glad you'll soon be visiting us. I'm a DM at Argyle, and I'll try to make your experience a good one.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 10:33 pm

Originally posted by Xandax
Most people don't play NwN in Argyle and BoTB has all but died - untill some are willing to resurect it and then I can start making a website over it again (after exames ).

The Blades of the Banshee is very much alive in the hearts of several Argyle players, and there are a few plans for the guild in Argyle Online.

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:25 pm

Hey! average joe!

I remember you, too! Funny you should mention the stickies at the Argyle forums. I was there just yesterday, and I noticed that you were one of only a very few (two, maybe) people in the "Hall of Fame" sticky. Congratulations!

I've been reading a fair amount there, but there is always more to learn. I'll try to get a solid grasp of the place before stumbling in.

Peace.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:51 pm

Originally posted by der Moench
Hey! average joe! I remember you, too! Funny you should mention the stickies at the Argyle forums. I was there just yesterday, and I noticed that you were one of only a very few (two, maybe) people in the "Hall of Fame" sticky. Congratulations!

I've been reading a fair amount there, but there is always more to learn. I'll try to get a solid grasp of the place before stumbling in.

Peace.

Thats only because my genious is far too subtle to be reognized

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:13 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
Thats only because my genious is far too subtle to be reognized

LOL!

Aegis, I was just looking through the forums (Argyle), and you show up as banned.

What's up with that?

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:58 pm

Heh... My little bit of fun...

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 1:52 pm

I ordered the new computer.

It should be here in ten days or so, and I would imagine you'll see me poking my head into AO in, oh, maybe two or three weeks.

Hey - I was reading through the forums again, and someone made it sound like no paladins are allowed in Argyle - what the heck is that all about? I thought we were playing hardcore 3E rules - and paladins are in 3E. What is Nippy going to do if he can't be a paladin?

@Aegis: Well, rats.

I'm sorry I won't be seeing you there.

Peace.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:07 pm

You misunderstand. I'm not banned

As for the Paladin thing, Paladin's per se aren't allowed, as they technically don't exist. Instead, they are thought of as Knights devoted to a God (how that's different from a Paladin, I got no clue). It's just their ideas, so, go with it, I suppose.