So nobody here has ever bought a game liked and played it a lot and then grew tired of it? (I don't know why I'm defending him)
About the boards. These boards have different character and therefore attract different kinds of people. So the fact you all like this board best isn't really surprising. The Sorcerers board was more strict BG2 and a thread that wasn't BG2 was moved to the whatnots. This board in contrast accept a lot nonBG posts and that isn't wrong just different.
(Personally I fall somewhere in between and as a consequence post in both.)
Are we all so stupid???.....Gamebanshee pride!!!
Personally, I find some of the strategies on the site to be "wimpy" by using some game flaws to beat some of the tough monsters. However, since this is my own opinion, I don't believe I have any right to discourage others from looking at or using these strategies. In fact, I think it's great these strategies are here:
1. For players who are frustrated with some encounters: Firkragg, the demi-lich, etc., these strategies will allow you to defeat these creatures so you can continue on with the game. Nothing like being frustrated enough to use your CDs as frisbees. Besides, not everyone has hours upon hours to find this stuff out for themselves (afterall, trial and error is very time consuming).
2. For the players such as myself that try to take a more PnP-ish approach, reading these strategies might help you to formulate your own attack by seeing what the strengths and limitations of certain spells are. This is not always obvious in a computer game.
Regardless, it sounds like the guy on Sorcerer's forum is just trying to drive business away from here.
1. For players who are frustrated with some encounters: Firkragg, the demi-lich, etc., these strategies will allow you to defeat these creatures so you can continue on with the game. Nothing like being frustrated enough to use your CDs as frisbees. Besides, not everyone has hours upon hours to find this stuff out for themselves (afterall, trial and error is very time consuming).
2. For the players such as myself that try to take a more PnP-ish approach, reading these strategies might help you to formulate your own attack by seeing what the strengths and limitations of certain spells are. This is not always obvious in a computer game.
Regardless, it sounds like the guy on Sorcerer's forum is just trying to drive business away from here.
Just as a counter arguement to Sylvus's Spellhold example. He mentions not being able to kill Irenicus in Spellhold. Truth be told, how fun would it be for you if you just bought the game, made your way to Spellhold (assuming no walkthroughs, hint books, strategy site, etc), and defeated Irenicus by pure luck? Well, you've just saved the world and the game is over. What would your reaction be?
I would say, "I just paid $$ for this?" I have said this about plenty of games. There are times where you have to preserve your NPCs by either making them insanely powerful, or impossible to kill at certain points of the game. Otherwise, you kill the adventure. Since this is a single player game primarily, you can't just write up a new adventure because the character broke it.
As a DM, you can compensate for these things, but there are also times where you don't want your major villans killed. Perhaps the characters got lucky, thought of something you didn't anticipate, or whatever, and the end result is your major villan getting wiped out. After carefully planning an adventure (which can take hours sometimes), you have to cheese a little bit and say, "Oh, just before your final blow to the evil wizard an evil dark knight that you didn't know about steps out of the shadows and attacks." Granted, it's not the best way to handle things, but if the adventure is worth saving, sometimes you have to do something like this.
This is also akin to the "immortal belt" item that Imoen has in the beginning of the game. It's just a slight proding designed to keep players on the adventure rather than "breaking" the game.
I would say, "I just paid $$ for this?" I have said this about plenty of games. There are times where you have to preserve your NPCs by either making them insanely powerful, or impossible to kill at certain points of the game. Otherwise, you kill the adventure. Since this is a single player game primarily, you can't just write up a new adventure because the character broke it.
As a DM, you can compensate for these things, but there are also times where you don't want your major villans killed. Perhaps the characters got lucky, thought of something you didn't anticipate, or whatever, and the end result is your major villan getting wiped out. After carefully planning an adventure (which can take hours sometimes), you have to cheese a little bit and say, "Oh, just before your final blow to the evil wizard an evil dark knight that you didn't know about steps out of the shadows and attacks." Granted, it's not the best way to handle things, but if the adventure is worth saving, sometimes you have to do something like this.
This is also akin to the "immortal belt" item that Imoen has in the beginning of the game. It's just a slight proding designed to keep players on the adventure rather than "breaking" the game.
Just looking at their forum a little. Here's an excerpt from the original poster: Rakanishu (http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001351.html)
"Thusly, I'm going to use Harm on Firkraag after I pop out of the Underdark! (but he was impossible to hit even with my THAC0 at -1!)"
Hello? Ever hear of Stoneskin? Sure you're hitting him, you're just not doing damage! Thac0 -1 will hit anything in the game (max AC -10) on a 9 or better. I do agree with him that resting and setting multiple traps or using cloudkill from fog of war are too cheesy for me, but they're valid strategies if people want to use them.
"Thusly, I'm going to use Harm on Firkraag after I pop out of the Underdark! (but he was impossible to hit even with my THAC0 at -1!)"
Hello? Ever hear of Stoneskin? Sure you're hitting him, you're just not doing damage! Thac0 -1 will hit anything in the game (max AC -10) on a 9 or better. I do agree with him that resting and setting multiple traps or using cloudkill from fog of war are too cheesy for me, but they're valid strategies if people want to use them.
I went on that site, and I think Syl might have exaggerated his distaste for BG2 just a bit... In other topics he seems like any other gamer. In fact, he seems to almost enjoy the game from what he says (EXCERPT)
Those are not strategies in my mind and some may argue with me and that's fair enough considering I think using arrows is cowardly.
Never-the-less, this isn't a discussion about arrows.
A strategy ... err "tactic"?! is having the entire party in the heat of battle, with each and every character having the risk of dying or taking damage. Sitting back in a lawn chair drinking lemon-aid shooting a +3 sling at a Golem who can't go through the door isn't a strategy. What part of this battle are you using your head for to defeat your enemy?
Blame poor AI programing on that one. The Golem should realize it can't get to you and move out of the doorway and back into the fog of war, or off to the side of the room.
Cloudkill on Dragons. Yes. Been through that discussion many times. Exploit, not a strategy.
I won't even waste my time on trap setting around dragons.
In every battle to date that I have come across, I have tried to make sure every member of my party is part of the action and proof of that can be read in any area I've done for the BG2 Online Solution.
If I fail, I do it again with the entire party, trying diffrent things. Maybe a different potion, or cast a spell sooner that I did before and going after a creature or NPC I underestimated the first time and attack them right away.
The hardest battle to date was that damn Lich were the Daystar sword was and I high gunned it out of there with all the party members on deaths door. Although I knew Daystar was in there, I tried to kill the damn beast before getting it and as the battle went on, knew I wasn't ready, grabbed what I could and retreated. Thinking I was safe, the damn thing followed me and I waited until the very last second to use the sword. The Lich failed his saving throw against Sunray and I took a deep breath.
They should change Strategies to "Easy Way Out".
Syl...
The only critical comment in that message is the poor AI (in his opinion), other than that it reads like he enjoyed playing, like his battle with that lich. Everyone makes an idiot of themselves one time or another. Maybe that was just one of his times.
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Magus, mighty conjurer, and summoner of vast amounts of words in the Planar Sphere Topic
----And yes, I am magusg, but I got tired of looking at that silly "pick an alternate name" name
Those are not strategies in my mind and some may argue with me and that's fair enough considering I think using arrows is cowardly.
Never-the-less, this isn't a discussion about arrows.
A strategy ... err "tactic"?! is having the entire party in the heat of battle, with each and every character having the risk of dying or taking damage. Sitting back in a lawn chair drinking lemon-aid shooting a +3 sling at a Golem who can't go through the door isn't a strategy. What part of this battle are you using your head for to defeat your enemy?
Blame poor AI programing on that one. The Golem should realize it can't get to you and move out of the doorway and back into the fog of war, or off to the side of the room.
Cloudkill on Dragons. Yes. Been through that discussion many times. Exploit, not a strategy.
I won't even waste my time on trap setting around dragons.
In every battle to date that I have come across, I have tried to make sure every member of my party is part of the action and proof of that can be read in any area I've done for the BG2 Online Solution.
If I fail, I do it again with the entire party, trying diffrent things. Maybe a different potion, or cast a spell sooner that I did before and going after a creature or NPC I underestimated the first time and attack them right away.
The hardest battle to date was that damn Lich were the Daystar sword was and I high gunned it out of there with all the party members on deaths door. Although I knew Daystar was in there, I tried to kill the damn beast before getting it and as the battle went on, knew I wasn't ready, grabbed what I could and retreated. Thinking I was safe, the damn thing followed me and I waited until the very last second to use the sword. The Lich failed his saving throw against Sunray and I took a deep breath.
They should change Strategies to "Easy Way Out".
Syl...
The only critical comment in that message is the poor AI (in his opinion), other than that it reads like he enjoyed playing, like his battle with that lich. Everyone makes an idiot of themselves one time or another. Maybe that was just one of his times.
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Magus, mighty conjurer, and summoner of vast amounts of words in the Planar Sphere Topic
----And yes, I am magusg, but I got tired of looking at that silly "pick an alternate name" name
Lost Souls: A bereft lover. A masterless familiar. Friends gone their separate ways. Time marches on, and destiny heralds the meeting of comrades old and new. Can they find what they're seeking? Or will the search bring them only more pain?
I too have read that thread. I think that Syl should have refrained from using the term stupid in describing some of the tactics given here. Most of these tactics are well thought out, and to be honest, I had played the game several times before visiting this forum and never even considered the cloudkill spell strategy.
Congrats to all of you strategists out there!
Congrats to all of you strategists out there!
"God does not play dice."
-Albert Einstein.
-Albert Einstein.
You might be right Magus , but he has made it personal with me. And I gonna flame him to his apologise to me or he bans me.
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Yes my name is Weasel , but that doesn't mean I sleep with them.
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Yes my name is Weasel , but that doesn't mean I sleep with them.
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
Ah! Freedom of speech. This is the internet, afterall.
And, if you have been here a while, there is criticism of some of these strategies right here on this very site. I happen to love this site, even though I think killing a dragon with cloudkill *is* pretty weak. That's my opinion, and, others have expressed similar ones here. But other strategies are better and provide insight. We are all free to add to them.
The great thing about what Buck has done here is that he has allowed all of us to post our opinions freely, even if he may think some of them are less than chivalrous. He doesn't tell us they are lame and unimaginative and refuse to post them. He doesn't tell us the game is boring and lacks creativity. He allows us to form our own opinions and make our own decisions. Buck is a great moderator. Thank you for respecting our intelligence.
I don't want to be on a site where the moderator tells us how to think, tells us our ideas are stupid, tells us whether or not the game is worth playing.
We still have that freedom to go to the site we choose. I choose Gamebanshee. I choose to talk on a site where the people and moderators like the game the site is devoted to. Thanks, Buck. This is the only site where I have ever posted my thoughts on the internet. I have been very impressed.
[This message has been edited by Rail (edited 01-18-2001).]
And, if you have been here a while, there is criticism of some of these strategies right here on this very site. I happen to love this site, even though I think killing a dragon with cloudkill *is* pretty weak. That's my opinion, and, others have expressed similar ones here. But other strategies are better and provide insight. We are all free to add to them.
The great thing about what Buck has done here is that he has allowed all of us to post our opinions freely, even if he may think some of them are less than chivalrous. He doesn't tell us they are lame and unimaginative and refuse to post them. He doesn't tell us the game is boring and lacks creativity. He allows us to form our own opinions and make our own decisions. Buck is a great moderator. Thank you for respecting our intelligence.
I don't want to be on a site where the moderator tells us how to think, tells us our ideas are stupid, tells us whether or not the game is worth playing.
We still have that freedom to go to the site we choose. I choose Gamebanshee. I choose to talk on a site where the people and moderators like the game the site is devoted to. Thanks, Buck. This is the only site where I have ever posted my thoughts on the internet. I have been very impressed.
[This message has been edited by Rail (edited 01-18-2001).]
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]
Nice one Rail. This guy has the right to say what he wants. He don't have the right to stop people coming to Gamebanshee just 'cos he *thinks* the strategies are stupied. What are opinions like everyone.....?
As for strategies (and people really should use the term tactics, not strategies), exploiting weakness is what that is all about. Would you say bombing an enemy who can't return fire at stealth aicraft or ECM protected planes is 'fair' or non-exploitative? Tough. The allies did that to Iraq. Oh, poor Golem can't get through the door, well that's the price you pay for being immune to certain weapons and so tough you can kill people with one blow. Should've thought about that before eh?
As for strategies (and people really should use the term tactics, not strategies), exploiting weakness is what that is all about. Would you say bombing an enemy who can't return fire at stealth aicraft or ECM protected planes is 'fair' or non-exploitative? Tough. The allies did that to Iraq. Oh, poor Golem can't get through the door, well that's the price you pay for being immune to certain weapons and so tough you can kill people with one blow. Should've thought about that before eh?
"Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his pants for his friends."
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
Thanks. I had to get that off my chest after reading those threads. That disturbs me, and I'm disturbed enough without any outside help.
Besides, nobody said golems are too bright. If I'm not mistaken, a golem truly *would* bang his head against a doorway trying to get to his goal, even if it meant he was taking hits in the process. Their purpose is to chase down and kill intruders. Not to hide and be sly about it.
Besides, nobody said golems are too bright. If I'm not mistaken, a golem truly *would* bang his head against a doorway trying to get to his goal, even if it meant he was taking hits in the process. Their purpose is to chase down and kill intruders. Not to hide and be sly about it.
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]
The Golem would probably bust through the wall trying! Hey, BG3 - to include destroyable scenery. Cool! "Wizard's Tower collapses in apocalyptic mage duel". Heh heh. 
"Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his pants for his friends."
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
One more point to make before I cool down. At the other site, Syl runs his site. It's HIS board. His site. He runs the discussions. If you say something stupid, he'll let you know. His version of what opinions are right and wrong is what is enforced.
Here, this is *OUR* site. Our discussions. We have great moderators who enforce the rules from time to time, but they are just that. They are moderators. We set the discussions. They post our topics and let us choose which ones we think are cool.
Way to go Gamebanshee crew. Thank you.
Here, this is *OUR* site. Our discussions. We have great moderators who enforce the rules from time to time, but they are just that. They are moderators. We set the discussions. They post our topics and let us choose which ones we think are cool.
Way to go Gamebanshee crew. Thank you.
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]