Well the barbarian beat the the berserker and it is time for a new challenge. I saw that someone started comparing bards and f/m/t. I think Blades should be compared to the multiclass.
It is very close. The blade get to cast level 7 spells whereas the fmt only gets level 6 spells. The fmt can use helmets and robe of vecna and staff of magi which is why I go for the fmt.
F/M/T vs Blade 1-0.
Post your opinions here and update the votecount.
Todays comparison Blade vs f/m/t
Todays comparison Blade vs f/m/t
You can't handle the truth!
Can a bard really cast lvl.7 spells?
The f/m/t is a better fighter (better thac0, weapon specialisation and more HPs)
Not sure if he has more spells but he can use robes and other mages-only equipment.
On the thief part the f/m/t has the backstab, and the other skills, the blade only has pickpocket.
The only advantage of a blade are his song and lore, but even those are toned down for his kit.
I at least would prefer a f/m/t to a blade anytime.
The f/m/t is a better fighter (better thac0, weapon specialisation and more HPs)
Not sure if he has more spells but he can use robes and other mages-only equipment.
On the thief part the f/m/t has the backstab, and the other skills, the blade only has pickpocket.
The only advantage of a blade are his song and lore, but even those are toned down for his kit.
I at least would prefer a f/m/t to a blade anytime.
"Everybody wants to see justice done, to somebody else."
I tested them out now and it seems as if I was wrong in that bards can cast level 7 spells. They can not.
Here are the results.
Bard is a half-elf blade.
Fmt is elven.
I beefed up the stats to racial maxiumum for both characters. This means 19 dex and 17 con for elf.
Blade is level 23 and fmt is level 11,12,14.
They are both dual wielding dakkon and cf and thac0 is then with girdle of frost giant strength.
Blade main 2 off 5 2 attacks
FMT main -1 off 2 3 attacks.
They both get 7 proficieny slots.
saving throws are for blade
9,6,8,12,7
FMT
7,7,8,8,8
Blade has pickpocket 115 and lore 135.
FMT has a total of 515 thieving skill points.
blade without items has 5 level 1-3 spells, four level 4,5 spells and 3 level 6 spells.
FMT has 4 level 1-5 spells and 1 level 6.
Blade has a maximum of 106 hps
FMT has 92
Blade has 6 defensive spins and 6 offensive spins.
FMT has backstab multiplier 5.
As you can see it is very close but the ability to use robe of vecna, staff of the magi, ring of acuity and vhailor's helm wins the day for the fmt.
Here are the results.
Bard is a half-elf blade.
Fmt is elven.
I beefed up the stats to racial maxiumum for both characters. This means 19 dex and 17 con for elf.
Blade is level 23 and fmt is level 11,12,14.
They are both dual wielding dakkon and cf and thac0 is then with girdle of frost giant strength.
Blade main 2 off 5 2 attacks
FMT main -1 off 2 3 attacks.
They both get 7 proficieny slots.
saving throws are for blade
9,6,8,12,7
FMT
7,7,8,8,8
Blade has pickpocket 115 and lore 135.
FMT has a total of 515 thieving skill points.
blade without items has 5 level 1-3 spells, four level 4,5 spells and 3 level 6 spells.
FMT has 4 level 1-5 spells and 1 level 6.
Blade has a maximum of 106 hps
FMT has 92
Blade has 6 defensive spins and 6 offensive spins.
FMT has backstab multiplier 5.
As you can see it is very close but the ability to use robe of vecna, staff of the magi, ring of acuity and vhailor's helm wins the day for the fmt.
You can't handle the truth!
Nice job Bruce Lee!
I think the FMT backstab would only be 4 unless he's actually T level 15.
Looking this over I have to go with the FMT...
Since both can use boots, offensive spin only brings the Blade into parity with the FMT in attack/Thac0 for the duration of the spins and only if the FMT isn't hasted.
FMT can also use the Helmet of Balduran while the best the Blade gets is the Pale Green Ioun. Both give +1 Thac0 and HP bonuses, but the Helm gives +1 saves and +1 AC so the FMT has an advantage there even if it doesn't take the option to tank up while dropping stealth and spells temporarily.
The Staff alone more than makes up for the few extra spells. Actually, the 12 hour Spell Trap by itself does and then throw in 3xFireball/Lightning infinite Imp Invis...
I think the FMT backstab would only be 4 unless he's actually T level 15.
Looking this over I have to go with the FMT...
Since both can use boots, offensive spin only brings the Blade into parity with the FMT in attack/Thac0 for the duration of the spins and only if the FMT isn't hasted.
FMT can also use the Helmet of Balduran while the best the Blade gets is the Pale Green Ioun. Both give +1 Thac0 and HP bonuses, but the Helm gives +1 saves and +1 AC so the FMT has an advantage there even if it doesn't take the option to tank up while dropping stealth and spells temporarily.
The Staff alone more than makes up for the few extra spells. Actually, the 12 hour Spell Trap by itself does and then throw in 3xFireball/Lightning infinite Imp Invis...
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Andrew Shih
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2001 10:00 pm
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I just finished solo with a blade, and you left out the following TREMENDOUS advantage:
The Blade has a level 23 spellcasting level--that's TWICE as high as the F/M/T level 12 spellcasting level. What that means is for starters his "Dispel Magic" outranks that of the F/M/T. It means that level-dependent spells do much more damage if you're a blade than if you're a F/M/T. Check out "Flamearrow," "Cone of Cold," "Sunfire," and "Chain Lighting" for example. It also means that when he casts "Mirror Image," he automatically gets 8 images, and when he casts "Stoneskins," he gets 11 Stoneskins. Do you KNOW how long it takes to hit a Blade in Defensive Spin (if your normal AC with armor is below 0, then your AC with Defensive Spin is under -10) with 8 images and 11 Stoneskins? My blade beat Irenicus/Slayer SOLO WITHOUT A SCRATCH. He only had to renew his mirror images and defensive spins two or three times. Finally, the Blade has the coolest Contingency in the game--because he is level 23, which is more than 3 times 6, he can put level 6 spells into his contingency. Try putting "Tenser's Transformation" into Contingency at 25% HP or less--it instantaneously FULL HEALS your blade and turns him from a level 23 rogue to a level 23 fighter. A F/M/T on the other hand is not improved by Tenser's at all.
--Riverwind
The Blade has a level 23 spellcasting level--that's TWICE as high as the F/M/T level 12 spellcasting level. What that means is for starters his "Dispel Magic" outranks that of the F/M/T. It means that level-dependent spells do much more damage if you're a blade than if you're a F/M/T. Check out "Flamearrow," "Cone of Cold," "Sunfire," and "Chain Lighting" for example. It also means that when he casts "Mirror Image," he automatically gets 8 images, and when he casts "Stoneskins," he gets 11 Stoneskins. Do you KNOW how long it takes to hit a Blade in Defensive Spin (if your normal AC with armor is below 0, then your AC with Defensive Spin is under -10) with 8 images and 11 Stoneskins? My blade beat Irenicus/Slayer SOLO WITHOUT A SCRATCH. He only had to renew his mirror images and defensive spins two or three times. Finally, the Blade has the coolest Contingency in the game--because he is level 23, which is more than 3 times 6, he can put level 6 spells into his contingency. Try putting "Tenser's Transformation" into Contingency at 25% HP or less--it instantaneously FULL HEALS your blade and turns him from a level 23 rogue to a level 23 fighter. A F/M/T on the other hand is not improved by Tenser's at all.
--Riverwind
I personally hate multi-classes. I would much rather play with a blade that a f/m/t. In my opinion, it's better to have a character that really reigns down destruction in what he is good at than one that is mediocre in several areas. This said, some of the really bad-A items in BG2 (Staff of Maji alone might turn the tide) might cause the F/M/T to come out ahead. As far as the overall better character though I would go with the Blade.
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Andrew Shih
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2001 10:00 pm
- Contact:
Regarding items for the blade, the F/M/T might be able to use mage items, but let's talk first about armor and availability. Early on in the game, the Blade gets Melodic Chain +3 which gives him an AC of 2 and allows him to cast spells through it. They can also use bard-specific instruments such as the Harp of Pandemonium, which operates like a combination "chaos spell" and "dragon wing buffet." Finally, the Blade can identify items.
--Riverwind
--Riverwind
I agree with the previous opinions. The available items for mage (Vecna, Magi), and fighter (any weapon, helmet, armour or shield) and the thiefs stealth/ backstab/ detect illusion ability definitely make the tide for the f/m/t (see speed soloing results).
Nevertheless I like the blade (it was my 1st solo character), the 23th level casting is awesome. Unfortunately a lot of spells are capped lower (eg. Sunfire) and the most of the level dependant spells are capped at level 20, because Bioware probably "forgot" to implemented them higher (with some exceptions like mirror-image, stoneskin, tenser's). Here are some more useful spells (capped at level 20): Melf's Acid Arrow, Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors.
If I have to vote for effective solo I would still choose for f/m/t, but otherwise I would vote for the Blade.
Nevertheless I like the blade (it was my 1st solo character), the 23th level casting is awesome. Unfortunately a lot of spells are capped lower (eg. Sunfire) and the most of the level dependant spells are capped at level 20, because Bioware probably "forgot" to implemented them higher (with some exceptions like mirror-image, stoneskin, tenser's). Here are some more useful spells (capped at level 20): Melf's Acid Arrow, Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors.
If I have to vote for effective solo I would still choose for f/m/t, but otherwise I would vote for the Blade.
In general, I like the single class characters over the dual class. Again, (I feel like I'm beating a dead horse) why would your character change class mid-stream. What would prompt him/her to make such a drastic life change as being a cleric then changing to a mage? Multiclass is easier for me to swallow, but the progression is soooo slow. Especially in this case.
I like the blade kit better. Their level progression is so much better than the triple class. You can argue that the mage items swing the power pendulum toward the F/M/T, but I think Riverwind has a good point that the bard items swing it equally in favor of the blade. This point is all about "which character is more powerful", though.
I simply happen to *like* the bard kit more. It has more class (pun intended
). The triple class characters seem to have too many hats to wear and make, IMHO, less believeable characters. The blade kit advances quickly and seems more rewarding for the player, especially newer ones. One vote for blade.
[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: Rail ]
I like the blade kit better. Their level progression is so much better than the triple class. You can argue that the mage items swing the power pendulum toward the F/M/T, but I think Riverwind has a good point that the bard items swing it equally in favor of the blade. This point is all about "which character is more powerful", though.
I simply happen to *like* the bard kit more. It has more class (pun intended
). The triple class characters seem to have too many hats to wear and make, IMHO, less believeable characters. The blade kit advances quickly and seems more rewarding for the player, especially newer ones. One vote for blade.[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: Rail ]
Matti Il-Amin, Paladin, comedian, and expert adventurer. Proudly bearing the colors of the [url="http://www.svelmoe.dk/blade/index.htm"]Blades of the Banshee[/url]
What defensive spin does for a Blade is make him very hard to hit, especially in combination with blur and stoneskin.Originally posted by Lumanis:
<STRONG>Question:
I read somwhere that a blade returns damage when he uses his defensive spin...
Can sombody clarify?</STRONG>
There's nothing a little poison couldn't cure...
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, ... to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security.