Please read this…

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:29 am

Why does love hurt so much??

Well.......
I am writing this post, because I fell in love with this girl.... Normally I wouldn’t post a problem here, but this one weights on my mind and heart, and at the moment I got no one to tell this. So, here I go.....

I was in her class the last two years of my pre-university education. In the beginning I didn’t know her that well. After a while we started talking and all that, we got to know eachother better and all those things.... Unfortunatly, I didn’t proceed in “getting-to-know-her-better”, because I was to busy with my own life (on which I wont get further into). So we just stayed “friends at school”. Then she started dating with someone else from my class and I didn’t feel sorry for myself or anything like that. So the year passed and nothing changed.... Until this year. The guy, who she was dating, became a very good friend of mine and my other friends. We hang out all the time and could really get along. So with that, I also came in contact with the girl more. When we played soccer matches she was there, when we had a party, she was there, and so on. I started to get along with her again and we talked more, had more fun and I had the feeling she became a good friend. Time passed and we indeed became friends, at school we talked more, hang out and were interested in eachother lives. It was like, when we saw eachother, we got a smile on our faces.....
However, by then she was dating my (by now not so new) friend for 1,5 years. And I knew they loved eachother, how much this pains me to admit....
But then the exam-period began, and she and I both had some help from a teacher at mathematics. When that was over (the lesson was like 45 min) we talked an hour straight, each time. And I discovered she went to the same university as me. And with those moments we got closer. Around this time I felt as if I was falling in love with her, and how much I tried to suppress the feelings, I couldn’t stop it. It felt like when I tried to put the feelings away, the feelings only became bigger and more apparent....However, I could coop with it, and lived my life.
That is, until graduation and the gala-night took place. During this evening (of 4 hours), I spent 1-2 hours talking to her at the bar. So then the pain really kicked in, but I also started wondering: “why would someone talk half of the time with me, while she can hang out with her boyfriend, her own friends and her best friend, which she brought along.....”
So the evening ended and I felt a strange nagging pain in my chest, of which the cause was now clear to me....
Two days later her boyfriend went to Spain for fourteen days, and I doubt I will see him (often) again, because he is studying 200 miles away from me.
During his absence, there was this graduation party.....and I went to it, and so did she. The evening lasted from 9 pm. to 4 am. I talked with her for 5 hours and we had a lot of fun.......I never felt closer to her. She was supposed to leave at 1 am, but stayed because of me and the fun we had. Then other friends of her left, and still she stayed.....
We walked around, alone. At a certain moment school friends came and sat with us, asking why we didn’t hang out with the rest and why we were so “close” (emotionally as well as physically). Someone even asked her if she was still dating the other guy......
During that evening I had the feeling she made some slight remarks that she liked me too.....
Giving hints, but not too obvious of course....
But like all nights, this one had to end to....while we talked about sleeping there, I think the remark about her boyfriend made her decide she would sleep at her friends house (the last one who was still at the party).
So she left and I decided to travel home with her for some time. During that time, she made clear that she wanted to have contact next school year and so did I. She could get a house with 3 rooms in the place where we will study, and she even offered me a room.....

But then we parted and I felt empty......That morning, I woke up and had a strange feeling. It was like, when you cry because you lost a loved one, but almost cant breath because of that and then try to eat. So did I feel....
It was as if my stomach and heart were twisting in all sorts of directions. And I cant stop thinking about her....

Now your probably asking, why is he posting this here?? Well, I cant tell my friends, cause they know her and her boyfriend (friends and all.....) pretty well....
I cant discuss this with my parents, cause this isn’t the kind of topic, I want to talk with them about.
I definitely cant tell her. What if she only sees me as a friend?? Then I probably lose her and her boyfriends friendship. So the obvious answer should be: “See her as a friend”. But believe me....I have tried and tried and tried.....I cant shake her out of my mind. And what if I decide to only stay friends?? Will that make me regret I didn’t make a “move” on her?? I also know the pain will pass with time, but that doesn’t make me feel any better right now....

Ure also probably thinking, what does he want from us?? Well, I don’t have a clue myself. I just wanted to tell someone, because it really weights on my mind and heart. And I’ve been around here now for some time and saw that people can post there problems here. Now I know I’m still young and foolish and all that, but.......
Ahhh no but......

-I’m sorry for this long post

CM · Post by CM » Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:39 am

You did the right thing by coming here. That is for certain. Now i am no one to give advice. God Knows i need it. After all i am a muslim which means a girl looking in my direction messes with my mind

Now i bet alot of people here can give excellent advice. Just wait for the DF's to start on your case. Personally think you need some people to talk to and this is the best place for it.

I cant and wont give advice as i am a complete novice on the issue. But dont worry you will get sound advice here. BTW how old are you?

Stiff upper lip and all that while our gurus of love figure out your love life for you

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:43 am

If she loves you, she will come back to you after however many years, and it will be worth all your pain - I think. It happened to me

You have to recognise your place though - a lot of girls need a guy for platonic affection...Ever heard 'you're like a brother to me'?
While to you it may seem like a hidden confession of something else, she could be immensely hurt by her brotherly boy turning into a less comforting sexual creature...
That's why I think you should wait - if she has chosen another boy over you, then your place has been decided. Respect her to undo her decision if she really needs to, but I think that if you secretly feel that you will be together, then you probably will.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:48 am

Sounds familiar...

...welcome to SYM btw, Sytze.

My COMMrade CM (Fas) is right --- don't listen to him.

I'm not a Muslim, I'm Catholic --- but what does religion have to do with this anyway?

I say sounds familiar coz I've been there before.

I told the girl straight away how I felt about her though I explained further that I was not expecting her to reciprocate her feelings for me. I was just relating how I felt for her but I did not want any trouble between her and me, me and her s.o.

It felt good in a way like a thorn was removed from my heart.

But still, no expectations coming from this. If she reciprocates, fine. If not, fine too.

Better be careful though. She may temporarily accept you coming from a rebound since her bf hasn't been available for some time.

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:57 am

Woman's point of view:

If you like someone, tell them. If they don't listen, keep telling them until they do. I admire persistance in a guy. I also admire courage because you'll always get knockbacks in relationships and fortune favours the brave.

If you really like this girl, don't give up. It's as simple as that.

Edit: But you also have to see everything in context. No other person can complete you and make you happy. You must be happy in yourself whilst in love and out of love and not rely on someone else in your life to make you feel happy and well balanced.

As for "why does love hurt so much"? If it hurts, it maybe isn't love - it's something else you're going through. Could it be lack of self esteem, lack of direction in life, issues with your childhood, etc? I know I have suffered with those issues before in my life and it's affected my relationships with my boyfriends.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:24 am

Thanks all.....

@CM, thanks for your support......it makes me happier that my post is not looked upon as strange..... By the way, I'm 19, and although I had a (small) relationship before, I never felt this way, or so attracted to a girl.....I also know I should talk with friends about this, but I simply dont want to do this yet. I will however, when we are on vacation.

@Frogus, im fairly positive she doesnt looks upon me as a "brother". The talks and actions between us are to intimate for that......and I know her very well now, and im sure she doesnt look to me as u suggested.
And you said: wait a while and it will turn out well.....
Well, I can wait, but the question is, how long?? And if I see her often next college year, how long can I do without telling her....

@Maharlika, I really want to tell her and see how she reacts, unfortunatly, firstly I dont have the guts for that (yet). Secondly and more important, I dont want to spoil the "relationship" we have now. But....I know I have to tell her sometime, and for that I will prepare myself......and hopefully, that time wont be to long from now.....
And what you said about her bf being away...well he wont be away that long, she can live with that + he just went last friday.....

@Enchantress.....Like I said, I know I need to tell her at a point. And I want too, but for now, it just feels painfull....plus I wont see her for some time I suspect. Not until our introduction-week starts (half August) and we will see eachother again.
And as u suggested that it could be lack of self esteem, lack of direction in life, issues with your childhood or anything. I must say no. I feel very competent with myself. I might have had a lack in self-esteem 2 years ago or so, but thats over. I feel good of myself...and im happy with me. Actually, after I finsihed my education (like Aegis), I feel everything is going like I wish.
All, except for the pain now. The hurting just started after our gala-night, and increased tenfolth after that party, which is now 3 days ago.......

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:45 am

Speaking from experience ... talk to her as soon as possible instead of delaying it - it will only get harder/worse with time.

The pain you are fealing is just one end of the spectrum - you could end up at the other end, so why not "risk" it?
Worst case senario is getting "shot down" so to speak, and then you are no worse of then you were before.
Best case senario - well, I guess you know what that would be

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:44 am

Sytze, welcome to SYM !

I tend to be quite a straightforward sort of person, and I generally think that when you have feelings for somebody it is better to let them know that honestly.

That being said... Given that she is the person already in a relationship, if the feelings are mutual (and from what you describe, it sounds as though this might be the case) it may be better for her to broach the subject. If you are going to the same university, and her boyfriend is a distance away, the chances are strong that if feelings are there... they will grow...

It also seems to me that your situation is complicated by the fact that her boyfriend is a friend of yours...

And love.... love is almost always deeply painful... that is its nature.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:32 am

by enchantress
But you also have to see everything in context. No other person can complete you and make you happy. You must be happy in yourself whilst in love and out of love and not rely on someone else in your life to make you feel happy and well balanced.

Well said.

My advice is to chill. Seems to me you're thinking about this way too much. Been there, not too long ago. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and relax. If you're not happy, it shows, and it doesn't leave a good impression.

Find yourself and be happy. sounds to me like she's interested in you. take it slow.

Antimatter · Post by **Antimatter** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:40 am

Yeah I was in a situation somewhat like this before. I started having feelings for a really good friend. After about 2 months of a horrible feeling (probably the one you have now), I talked to my friend and he said to just tell her. So I did. At first it was kind of strange, but about two months later we started going out. It was a somewhat unstable relationship to begin with, but after awhile it started really growing I thought and for about two months we were going well. Then summer came and we couldn't see each other for a couple months. I didn't think it was a problem, though. Anyways, when we did see each other again she was acting strange, and about two weeks later I found out she had "met" someone else. Yeah, that was the worst ever because I ended up pretty much losing her as a friend because I couldn't take her presence...it made me incredibly depressed. Then she moved (for other reasons) and since then I've talked to her once.

So yeah anyways, my advice would be to make sure you can see her a lot if you do tell her. Your situation, however, is more complicated because of her bf. If I were you, I think I would wait until I got to University. That way your chances are better because you'd be around her and also if you got shot down you could work through it and stay friends. And if your worried about her bf's feelings, I would just explain that those are your feelings and that you don't expect anything out of her. Just tell her you had to say something. I'm sure she'll understand because you sound like really good friends. But I don't know. I'm not the best for advice either, but I try

.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:27 pm

I know Im thinking way to much about her. Believe me, I do see the problem......however, I cant stop it. Its not like a switch which you can turn on and of you know.....

And Ned, about the bad impression, well, I probably wont see her untill August (unless she brings her books back to school at the same time as me, which is friday, but I doubt it), so by then I probably will be calmed down.

Now I actually begin to have some doubts, I want to tell her soon, but dont want to spoil our friendship.
And Antimatter, thank for your reply. I am sorry what happened with your relationship. I hope (except for the last part in which she breaks up) that I can have such a story too. Somehow I also think it would be wiser to sit out the beginning of next college year.....and see how our relationship develops then.
And like dragon wench said, maybe I should let her make a step also.......

Choises.....

Zelgadis · Post by **Zelgadis** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:14 pm

Sytze, reading your posts brings back a lot of painful memories for me. My only advice would be to tell her as soon as you can, call right this moment if possible. Otherwise your fear and anxiety will take over and you will never tell her, always putting it off for another day when you feel a little more confident or a little more desperate. In time, you'll realize that the time to tell her has long passed. Eventually you will become bitter about the whole thing, and beleive me, that is not a feeling you want to associate in any way with someone you love. The longer you wait, the longer you'll be in pain, and the less chance you'll have of getting the result you want. You may feel that the worst thing that could happen is that she rejects you, but in actuallity the worst thing that could happen is that you never tell her and she takes no action, leaving you in a cycle of irratrional hope and self loathing that can last for years, slowly and painfully destroying your friendship.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:36 pm

My advice is tell her, but - only do it to be honest with her, and don't push for a relationship unless she's willing. Once you've told her, the ball is in her court, so give her time to think about it -sit back, relax and get on with the rest of your life.

Apart from that, I agree with Zelgadis - tell her soon.
EDIT - definitely before you move into a house with her

Good luck

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:38 pm

Don't let her dissapear till august. Get her number, call her. Keep in contact. It seems to me that both of you are getting closer and both most likely know it is heading to something.

Like the others said tell her soon, that pain will never weaken nor dissapear completly until she knows your intention is to treat her the best you could possibly do. If it is the nagging pain of love, than embrace it and follow through with your heart. The only step that was ever a wasteful one was the one not taken.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:41 pm

Right, I have always been pretty much alone because I dont want to cause detriment to a friendship with a girl. That is why I have only had 2 girlfriends, one I still am friends with, while the other one, I am very spiteful towards.

Of course, I am a coward, I always have been, and always will be. There is no changing that. So, always, when I have a solid friendship with a girl, I never bother asking her out, because RIGHT before I want to tell her I like her, I give myself a reason not to, whether it be my looks, my non-confidence, my social ineptness, something, always something. Am I regretful for this? Absolutely not. But I COULD be....So far, Ive analyzed my chances with certain girls, and I realize I never had a chance with a most of them given many reasons. Only one am I regretful about. But thats just me. The thing is, that you are obviously close to this girl, and she is close to you. Given the circumstances, if you tell her you like her, I think due to the fact youve spent so much time with her, that she already knows it. So tell her what she already knows. And its not like she will stop being friends with you. If she has enjoyed spending time with you up to now, she wont change her mind all of a sudden. At least thats how I think. Of course, women are horribly unpredictable so what do I know? Im just saying, realistically speaking, she shouldnt be offended or anything.

If you feel more comfortable to have a normal conversation, and then LEAD it into the direction that you like her, then in the climax of the conversation, say that you like her, that could be working step by step, thereby making it more comfortable to say. However, I know a few girls hate it when people beat around the bush.

Given love, go with your heart, not your brain. Where as everything else is the opposite.

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:44 pm

Originally posted by Tybaltus
Oh, and welcome to the forums.

He's not a newbie - he's Archer_S (see his sig) and probably couldn't get into his old account.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:49 pm

Meh, either way, I dont know him

So well met Sytze/Archer

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:50 pm

Meh! Me neither.

Meh!

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:30 pm

@Sytze, not to intentionally go against the grain here, or question your interpretation, but has she given any indication that she is unhappy with her current relationship? A year and a half dating someone is more than a pastime at 19 is it not?...I am not questioning her integrity, since I trust you know her quite well, you have said you are intimate, but there are levels of intimacy that are not always necessarily signs of a desire for a more permanent and sexual relationship - and I am not referring to the "brotherly" relationship here. My closest friends IRL are male (apart from my sisters).

I agree with the majority about being honest with her, if it was not her intent to become more intimately involved with you, then there will be a period of embarrassment. Hopefully your bond will remain, but sadly this is not guaranteed. All I would suggest is that you try and look at your situation objectively, detach yourself from it, wonder how you yourself might advise a friend in the same situation, before you do speak with her. Don't wait for a moment of insecurity then approach, and prepare yourself for the worst just in case. It is better you go in there as prepared as you can be. BTW, I am with Ned on his advice - step back, and take a deep breath

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:45 pm

If I may add to the quality advice that has already been given…

Perhaps, in the first place, it might be helpful to step back from the situation for a moment and begin to assess all the different forces at play. From your post, I am assuming that one of most difficult aspects of this for you is dealing with the issue of love. A big topic, naturally, but I think there are a couple of things you could explore that might be of value to you. One of the most lucid explanations I have ever heard concerning love came from Joseph Campbell and is documented in the book, The Power of Myth, which includes the transcripts of the television series where he is interviewed by Bill Moyer. I will quote here from Episode 5, “Love and the Goddess”:

Love, you might say, is the burning point of life and since all is sorrowful, so is love. And the stronger the love, the more that pain--that love bears all things. Love itself is a pain, you might say--that is, the pain of being truly alive.

This is a profoundly important statement that speaks to the heart of your struggles. We are not taught that love and pain arise together, and so when they do, we are at loss to know how to deal with it. Perhaps a different way to look at this is that the pain you are experiencing is actually the growing pains of your heart. Just as in athletic training, you do not grow and evolve without some amount of sore muscles. In the same way, emotional struggles such as this one helps you to grow as a lover, as someone capable of giving and sharing love. It is interesting to me that people often speak about their relationship with things in the outer world but less often speak about their relationships with things in their inner world. You have a relationship with love, with pain, with fear, just as you do with this young woman. How you deal with those relationships is just as important as how you deal with your relationships with people and things in the outside world. That is, you will find that the more intimacy you have with both inner and outer phenomena, the more mastery you will be able to attain and the less overwhelming such things will feel. For intimacy to occur, you need to spend time and give attention, whether the focus is inside or outside. You experienced this yourself, for as you spent more time with this young woman, your feelings and appreciation for her grew. Part of the difficulty you seem to be experiencing, if I am understanding what you have written correctly, is that you are not very experienced with these strong emotions. Thus, they seem overwhelming and this incredible sense of urgency makes it almost impossible to sort things out. In this regard, I would encourage you to find something from nature that reminds you of groundedness and patience. It could be a massive, impressive oak or an imposing mountain. Whatever speaks to you. Once you have chosen, incorporate this image into your thinking. When you feel overwhelmed or in despair, stop, breath slowly, and focus all your attention on this powerful image you have chosen. It will help you to feel less out of control, less at the mercy of these powerful feelings.

I would also point out that there are different types of love. We need not explore them all, but I believe that the type you are experiencing would be called Eros. Given the level of passion and desire inherent in this type of love, you may also want to begin to explore your relationship with desire. Desire is one of the raw materials that shapes the type of reality that you create. Like love, I would consider it more of a force than a feeling. This would explain why the more you tried to suppress it, the more powerful it became. An analogy would be trying to hold a lid on a pot of boiling water as you increased the level of heat inside the pot. The human body does not do well at all with suppression, repression, and other attempts to stuff things inside. In fact, one could argue that this is counter to the whole dynamic of love, which is based on truth and not on banishing things to the darkness.

At this point, if you would like my opinion, to simply step in and attempt to interrupt the relationship this woman has with your friend would be dishonorable. I also think that it could result in some loss of respect, both from her and from yourself to yourself. This does not mean that you cannot discuss your feelings with her, but I would advise that the focus not be on any romantic agenda, but more on how the two of you can honestly allow the expression of such feelings within your friendship in a way that is not hurtful to anyone. Again, to take an example from nature, things are typically not slashed or ripped apart to make way for new growth. The old things die away naturally in their own time, so that new things can blossom. Perhaps, in having these types of discussions with your friend, she may discover that her feelings for her current partner are not as deep as she once thought. But that is her process to undergo, in her own time, and at her own speed. All you can do is to continue to be honest, loving, and patient. Perhaps starting a journal where you can begin to find the words you would want to say would be a good start in this regard, as well as allowing you to release some of these built-up feelings in a concrete way. Later, your journal can be a teaching tool that helps you to understand your thinking and feelings more clearly.

There is one more thing I would point out. If this is truly love, as you have implied, then you should realize that, at some level, things will work out as Love (capitalized to imply “love as a force”) sees fit, not necessarily the way you want them to. This is not some fluffy, New Age sentiment. One way to recognize that Love is truly present is by the impact it has on your life and the lives of others. If you were able to completely offer yourself and follow the will of Love, as opposed to your desires, passions, romantic urges and so on, you would be at peace. Because you would know, truly know, that if your relationship with this young woman is actually a loving occurrence that you were meant to participate in, then it will unfold as it is supposed to.

I leave you with the words from Kahil Gilbran:

And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.