I beat my common sense...

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:25 pm

...and will be purchasing the KotoR tomorrow. What can I expect to find? Any BG2 players here who can tell me if it's less, more of the same, or far more than just the same?

Necrotaur · Post by **Necrotaur** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:01 pm

Compared to BG2 I was a little disappointed, but I guess it's hard to live up to something like that. Some of the disappointment had to do with the length (KotOR is pretty short), but other parts game me a 'who cares' feeling after doing them only to find out later it didn't matter.

Something fun to do is keep an eye out for familiar voices.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:25 pm

I've seen claims of 40 hours, which does seem fairly short when compared to BG2; but does that 40 hours include optional, non-linear quests, in your opinion?

And do you feel like playing it again, right away, to try out different "professions?" Will the party members you gather depend in part on your alignment?

Necrotaur · Post by **Necrotaur** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:39 pm

40 hours seems rather high to me, I went through it in about 25-30. I didn't do all the sidequests, but I did most (there aren't many), so I doubt another 10-15 hours could be gained from that alone. Maybe you could do it if you walked everywhere instead of ran (some of the environments are pretty big).

And do you feel like playing it again, right away, to try out different "professions?" Will the party members you gather depend in part on your alignment?

After I beat it the first time as a good aligned melee character, I went back to try an evil 'magic using' character. The initial fights are harder, but that's about it. So far he's off Tarsis (won't go into too much detail so I don't spoil it for you) and it's not all that much different than the first time I played through. Granted he's not very far along, but so far from what I've seen the replay value is pretty low because there's not too much distinction between the 'classes'.

Party members join depending on your dialogue options, not your alignment. I think there's only 1 character that you have a choice on in their joining the group. You may be able to drive off a couple of them, but I haven't tried that yet.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:34 am

25-30 hours? That's ridiculous, especially after all the hype. Since there's nothing comparable on Xbox I don't wonder if it goes unremarked; but I can't help wondering what will happen when PC players and reviewers discover this fact, later this year. I wonder what the problem was?

This really takes the edge off the game for me.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 11:28 am

*makes a little tic in his note book*

Shame to be hearing that, but, I'm still waiting for the PC version. Let's see if it scores higher then my initial NwN reveiw...

Idioteque · Post by **Idioteque** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:49 pm

Fable you will be happy to know that BG2 "You must gather your party... " has made it into the game. HAHA

No its not as good or as long as BG2 but what is? A great consle RPG an average PC RPG.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:55 pm

Which leads one to wonder how it will fare when it hits the PC. I'm thinking Bioware could put its name on a box of congealed grease and still find a thousand enthusiastic buyers, but most PC RPGers are a more discriminating sort who have memory spans that are longer than a week. Those of us who have played BG2 will want at least that much from a game.

We picked our copy up this afternoon. Ignored the EB salesperson's attempts to sell us a Prima strategy guide; it was all full color photos, and comparatively limited text. Sadly, as much can be said for the KotoR manual, which was competent, but traded off some of the rich text of the BG2 manual for full color photos.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 9:25 am

Fable,

The NPC's have as much depth as they did in BG2. Is the game as good as BG2. No, but then again, I don't think it's possible for another CRPG to be as good as BG2.

Necrotaur makes a good point in looking for familiar voices. I found Jaheira last night.

As far as length, my first time through will be around 60 hours +. I go rather slow, checking back at shops often, talking to everyone often, exchanging equipment around, and flipping through the combat log. Since the NPCs interact with one another, I like to exchange and mix them around as well.

Basically, the three classes are fighter, ranger, rogue so not a lot of difference there. I would say that if you're a soldier(fighter), you won't need another in the party. The game should really be turned up to hard difficulty almost immediately. Most encounters are won relatively easy.

As far as replayablility, I think I'll play through this game three times. I'm still on my initial game and have become smitten with the dark side of the force. I'm totally focused on the game objective, ignoring side quests unless they provide substantial profit. I've told off most of my NPCs, and in a RPing sort of way, refuse to travel with them or take them along. I travel solo, with a droid to help out in tight spots. I'll eventually go through as a goody two shoes and then as a smoove talker. Apparently, the smooth talker router is supposed to open more avenues of conversations with those you meet in the game.

I think two of the NPCs are optional, otherwise, you'll be stuck with the other stiffs on your ship even if you don't want them. However, you don't have to travel with them.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:34 am

On a somewhat separate note, this is my first console game. (Yes, I'm a console virgin.

) I was extremely disappointed at the clunkiness of the controls. White, Black, A, B, X, Y, START...? Makes me yearn for more-or-less standardized mnemonic keyboard shortcuts, where M brings up a Map, I calls Inventory, P is Priestly spells, etc. Nor can I move swiftly to a given non-map screen. If I want to examine the stats of a party member, I have to hit START, then use the triggers to cycle through a series of menus, then bring up the stat menu, select the character I want, and click on that. In Planescape: Torment (just as an example), I type S for stats, and the number corresponding to the physical placement of that NPC in my party.

I know the console controls are supposedly great for swift movement and action especially in 3D environments, and I can see why, given the range of physical movement available. But in KotoR, I question whether the Xbox control system isn't more of a bane than anything else. (Please note I'm not trying to be provocative with these remarks. I'm just passing along my observations based on my first use of a console.)

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:05 pm

I agree with you fable. You would think that a game based on a mystical power as supreme as the force would have a telepathic interface.

No need for a controller or a keyboard.

However, as long as you now own an xbox, you'll soon be able to purchase a game that bears a remarkable resemblance to your username.

Sad to say, Jan Jansen is not in the game and neither is Boo.

Exar Kun · Post by **Exar Kun** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:06 pm

I played through the game in about 20 hrs without doing any of the side quests, and now i'm going back through and doing them all, with a different alignment. BG2 is definately longer, but im a SW nut, and although BG2 is one of my favorites, i like KotOR.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:16 pm

SW nut? What is SW? Shortwave? Swift wind? Slimy waters? Shrimp waffles?

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:26 pm

Originally posted by fable
Shrimp waffles?

LMAO.....

Going back to what you said re: the console interface VRs the keyboard. It took a few days to commit the control pad to muscle memoriy, but once I did, I can say with out a doubt, it is the way to go. It becomes so reflexive, taht you never have to think about anything byut what youa re about to do next....nad never how are you going to do it. As far as I am concernend, that only lends itself more tho the total imersion experience that many gamers such as myself look for.

Chan baught KoTOR, and StarWars Galaxies.. From what I have seen, KoTOR, is a beautiful, but limited game. I say limited because of the lack of variables in the creation and manipulation of your character. BG2 fans will love it I am sure, as this was never a strong suit of that game, but for the MW fans out there, *raises hand* Galaxies offers the first real alternative to that open ended, no rules just right feel that MW had, PLUS, it is a MMORPG, so you can truly play it for months and never play the same game twice. I limit it to months because I would hate to see our friends all developing carpal tunnel

Two awesome games out this summer, but the one that I know I would be instantly addicted to is Galaxies........I just wish I had a console interface to play it with

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:35 pm

Can't say I'm that fond of MMORPGs, though, @Scayde. I like a game I can take my time playing, and where the element of roleplaying is consistent, throughout. I've reviewed various MMORPGs, and I was employed by one of 'em for several years. Most of the people in the games were either angry kids who hated their lives and wanted to powertrip, or people who regarded the environment as a Disney backdrop to their realworld discussions. I had some great player experiences occasionally in Gemstone III with some fantastic people, but those were the exception, and became more so as the games moved to the Web and acquired greater accessibility.

That said, I do agree MW is about as non-linear as you can get. On the other hand, dialog is a real drawback. BG2, PS:T and KotoR have NPC characters who beat MW's hands down.

Necrotaur · Post by **Necrotaur** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:07 am

Originally posted by fable
I had some great player experiences occasionally in Gemstone III with some fantastic people, but those were the exception, and became more so as the games moved to the Web and acquired greater accessibility.

Well whaddaya know... I play Gemstone 3!

Do you still play?

(or maybe this is better suited to another forum.. if you want to respond somewhere else let me know)

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:18 am

I've just sent you a PM, since it's not appropriate here, and I doubt anybody else is going to be interested in the subject down in SYM (Speak Your Mind). They'd spam it wonderfully, mind you, but I don't think you'll get much involvement from an informational standpoint.

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:05 am

I just finished playing KotOR for the third time, and I logged in about 40-48 hours each time. It was kind of disappointing though. I found the fights more tedious than fun and far too easy, even on the higher difficulties. The replay value just wasn't there like I'd hoped. I played on the light side the first time, so it was fun to see what the dark side was like, but that's about as far as it went. I found my dialogue decisions didn't hold as much sway on the game's outcome as I would've liked. And the dark side vs light side selections in dialogue were way too obvious. And while you have a lot of characters to choose from with all different skills, you really didn't need to utilize all of them. There were characters in my party who never saw the light of day.
I think Bioware was just trying to put out a relativvley short, relatively fun, good looking game on console to try to reel in some of the console gamers who perhaps don't have the patience of a PC'er. And that's exactly what they did. It was short and uninvolved, but I got hooked and had a lot of fun playing it. And being a huge sucker for love stories, the romance options were interesting to me. And the dialogue was a lot less.... lame than most RPGs I've played.

Mmagus · Post by **Mmagus** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:38 pm

Hi all,

I am on my last planet...not even to the star forge yet and am clocking at about 50 hours. I guess I must be following a lot of the side quests? Plus I tend to search every area and take out everything I find...foes or loot.

I am playing light side now but will go back and do a dark character as well. The only real complaint that I have is the lack of a speeder to use. Think of the fun it would have been to hop on one and race across the dunes to the sand people. Instead we get to run marathons...seemed like a really fun aspect that was not worked up by the BioWare folks.

Anyway...just my thoughts

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:01 pm

I agree, Mmagus. I hate that I have this wonderful swoop bike just sitting on my ship and I'm schlepping around entire planets on foot. Okay, that's a bit of an overstatement. But I thank Bioware greatly for including the X button transit option. Nothing I hate more in an RPG than running back and forth through the same area 8 times just to get from A to B, not really accomplishing anything. Especially when you have to load a new map for every area transition. At least in games like Morrowind I could grit my teeth and tell myself all this running around was building up a skill...