dexterity for a fighter?

[eternal]

Hi, I've just gotten my hands on iwd2 and I'm a little new to the 3rd edition rules.
I made a fighter for my party and set his dexterity to 18, and now halfway into the game i discovered every armor has a maximum dexterity bonus. Now I wonder, does this apply to everything dexterity related or just to the ac?

Cheers

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Originally posted by eternal
Hi, I've just gotten my hands on iwd2 and I'm a little new to the 3rd edition rules.
I made a fighter for my party and set his dexterity to 18, and now halfway into the game i discovered every armor has a maximum dexterity bonus. Now I wonder, does this apply to everything dexterity related or just to the ac?

Cheers

That's just AC. The thing is, you could get more of your Dex bonus to AC through a suit of leather armor than you would through a suit of chain mail.

Dex modifiers also add to skills that require that stat to improve them. For instance, certain rogue skills will have a higher natural level than if you were to, say, have 10 Dex. So if you multi-classed your fighter to Rogue, Ranger, or Bard (which I wouldn't suggest as a multi-class, only solo), his Hide and Move Silently Skills would have a better chance of working. Alot of the other rogue skills are Intelligence-based, though, so you'd have to have quite a few points in that stat as well.

For warriors, if you use small blades (in other words, short swords or daggers), and took the 'Weapon Finesse' feat, your fighter's Dex modifier would count as the damage modifier for using that type of weapon. If you ask me, that would do best for rogues. Also, for any class, high Dex modifiers add to your missile weapon adjustments for damage. So if you used a bow, crossbow, sling, or dart, those would have good damage capabilities with your fighter.

Overall, you have some different choices as to how to implement your Dexterity stat modifier (the +5 that shows up next to the stat number in the statistics screen in the game). Use it wisely, and it will propel that fighter to near-godly proportions. Also, make sure he has decent Constitution (at least 16 or 18) in order to let him survive.

Hope this helps.
If your

[lightningpig]

A correction to the above post: Weapon Finesse does not affect the damage rolls in any way - what it does is replace the 'to hit' modifier for a small blade with your dexterity bonus.

The manual description for weapon finesse is as follows:
'... use your dexterity modifier instead of your strength modifier on attack rolls.'

The manual description of an attack roll is:
'... the die roll that determines whether any physical attack... succeeds or fails.'

---

With regard to dexterity for fighters, it depends on the role you plan for your fighter. I employ two different kinds of fighters: the first is the 'anchor' who wears heavy armor, uses a shield and has pre-game maxed con (all subsequent points are added to strength) - I give him the best armor boosting equipment because his role is to attract all the enemies to his person and to receive and hand out punishment - for this type I use a dex of 14, since this is the maximum dexterity bonus for a lot of the good sets, plus it grants you the option to select the Dodge, Deflect Arrows and Expertise feats (all AC boosters). He cannot deal damage as efficiently as the second type, but he is excellent for distracting opponents.

The other type of fighter I use is the 'outrider'. His role is to dish out a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, at the expense of protection. I usually give him a level of ranger for the free 2-wield. While the anchor is attracting enemies, I use the outrider to rake the fringes with quick and damaging strikes and then turn him away once they take notice of him. I run this type with a dex of 18, so that he can wear medium armor with the maximum defense bonus, as well as move more quickly. While I also grant him Dodge and Deflect, in lieu of Expertise, this character uses Power Strike to help with the damage production. An added benefit (whether you intend this or not) is that this character will be able to use missile weapons well (think: Cloudkiss).

In my opinion, Dexterity is only good for AC on a fighter. Giving a fighter skills only needlessly diverts stat points (you can drop a few points in Intelligence to give a welcome boost to your Constitution).

---

Another note, don't be too quick to disregard light and medium armor just because heavy armor has a bigger base AC. If you factor in the dexterity bonus in your pre-game computations, you will see that a character with high dexterity and med/light armor can equal or even surpass a character with decent dex and heavy armor. (The best heavy armor, though, is easier to find than the best medium armor)

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Good points, lightningpig.

Originally posted by lightningpig
A correction to the above post: Weapon Finesse does not affect the damage rolls in any way - what it does is replace the 'to hit' modifier for a small blade with your dexterity bonus.

The manual description for weapon finesse is as follows:
'... use your dexterity modifier instead of your strength modifier on attack rolls.'

The manual description of an attack roll is:
'... the die roll that determines whether any physical attack... succeeds or fails.'

---

With regard to dexterity for fighters, it depends on the role you plan for your fighter. I employ two different kinds of fighters: the first is the 'anchor' who wears heavy armor, uses a shield and has pre-game maxed con (all subsequent points are added to strength) - I give him the best armor boosting equipment because his role is to attract all the enemies to his person and to receive and hand out punishment - for this type I use a dex of 14, since this is the maximum dexterity bonus for a lot of the good sets, plus it grants you the option to select the Dodge, Deflect Arrows and Expertise feats (all AC boosters). He cannot deal damage as efficiently as the second type, but he is excellent for distracting opponents.

The other type of fighter I use is the 'outrider'. His role is to dish out a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, at the expense of protection. I usually give him a level of ranger for the free 2-wield. While the anchor is attracting enemies, I use the outrider to rake the fringes with quick and damaging strikes and then turn him away once they take notice of him. I run this type with a dex of 18, so that he can wear medium armor with the maximum defense bonus, as well as move more quickly. While I also grant him Dodge and Deflect, in lieu of Expertise, this character uses Power Strike to help with the damage production. An added benefit (whether you intend this or not) is that this character will be able to use missile weapons well (think: Cloudkiss).

In my opinion, Dexterity is only good for AC on a fighter. Giving a fighter skills only needlessly diverts stat points (you can drop a few points in Intelligence to give a welcome boost to your Constitution).

---

Another note, don't be too quick to disregard light and medium armor just because heavy armor has a bigger base AC. If you factor in the dexterity bonus in your pre-game computations, you will see that a character with high dexterity and med/light armor can equal or even surpass a character with decent dex and heavy armor. (The best heavy armor, though, is easier to find than the best medium armor)

Oh, er, sorry. Misrepresentation of data on my part. I meant to say replace, but it didn't occur to me.

Good points to make as well. I was hinting at the whole Dex bonus to AC with light and medium armor, but like I said above, my wording wasn't accurate enough.

About maxing out Con: Unless that character would be one to accept a few dialogues, why not subract some points from Charisma instead? I thought I'd mention this because my research with characters has shown that higher Int for fighters (at least 12) grants additional skill points and (IIRC) one additional feat per positive modification of Int. I'm not trying to devalue your point at all, but I just thought I'd try and point out something that appeared to me with past Fighters, one I had being a Shield Dwarf Fighter named Galuf (18 Str 12 Dex 20 Con 12 Int 6 Wis 8 Cha; intimidator and tank).

I hope this doesn't seem harsh in any way. It's just a strategy that I developed and wished to share. Okay?

[eternal]

Thanks for the help everyone, just what I wanted to know

Cheers

[lightningpig]

@Galuf

No offense taken - this is a public forum after all, and discussion is where it's at. Whenever I am done RP-ing a game, I convert to powergaming - which means that dropping Charisma is a given for me. I use Intelligence for fighters only to allow them to use Expertise, that is, if the build requires it.

First, I would point out that Intelligence does not increase the number of Feats gained - this is clearly stated in the manual. Besides, Fighters get feats every other level to begin with in addition to the Feat points that are generated by the natural progression - so even if Int did add feat points (which it doesn't) , what would you do with them? The Fighter does not need more feats, he/she has more than enough already.

Again back to the issue of skill points. What skills would you give a fighter? Intimidate? While adding Intimidate makes perfect sense from a RP standpoint, it has little merit in IWD2 if you are powergaming (if you power your fighter, most likely you are powering your sorc/wizard, and he/she can have all the diplomatic skills). Intimidate is a Charisma-based skill (hence if you are dropping Cha you are getting a negative modifier to your Intimidate rolls), and while it is a primary skill for Fighters, I have found that the instances where Intimidate will be useful are very few (the drunk in Ch.1, Illium in Ch.2, Bogrob in Ch. 3, drider-maker and Z'hinda exit point mindflayer in Ch. 4, Hiepherus and alchemist in Ch. 5 - a bit fuzzy on the names, and I probably missed a couple) and can be managed with a different skill/strategy or even if max-pumped as a secondary skill in another character with decent Charisma. Diverting stat points to get intelligence on a fighter just for skills is unnecessary since the useful skills can all be dumped on another character and it doesn't affect the feats gained anyway.

[Galuf the Dwarf]

Originally posted by lightningpig
@Galuf

No offense taken - this is a public forum after all, and discussion is where it's at. Whenever I am done RP-ing a game, I convert to powergaming - which means that dropping Charisma is a given for me. I use Intelligence for fighters only to allow them to use Expertise, that is, if the build requires it.

First, I would point out that Intelligence does not increase the number of Feats gained - this is clearly stated in the manual. Besides, Fighters get feats every other level to begin with in addition to the Feat points that are generated by the natural progression - so even if Int did add feat points (which it doesn't) , what would you do with them? The Fighter does not need more feats, he/she has more than enough already.

Again back to the issue of skill points. What skills would you give a fighter? Intimidate? While adding Intimidate makes perfect sense from a RP standpoint, it has little merit in IWD2 if you are powergaming (if you power your fighter, most likely you are powering your sorc/wizard, and he/she can have all the diplomatic skills). Intimidate is a Charisma-based skill (hence if you are dropping Cha you are getting a negative modifier to your Intimidate rolls), and while it is a primary skill for Fighters, I have found that the instances where Intimidate will be useful are very few (the drunk in Ch.1, Illium in Ch.2, Bogrob in Ch. 3, drider-maker and Z'hinda exit point mindflayer in Ch. 4, Hiepherus and alchemist in Ch. 5 - a bit fuzzy on the names, and I probably missed a couple) and can be managed with a different skill/strategy or even if max-pumped as a secondary skill in another character with decent Charisma. Diverting stat points to get intelligence on a fighter just for skills is unnecessary since the useful skills can all be dumped on another character and it doesn't affect the feats gained anyway.

Once again, good points, lightningpig. You've proven your value here plenty.