Any Way to Enable Unlimited Dual-Classing?

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 7:18 pm

What I found most fascinating about BG II were all the different class combos possible through dual-classing and kits, etc. But in TOB, although they introduced the wild mage, they did not do much in terms of further innovations in classes and class combos. Note that in AD&D, you could dual just about any class to another. In fact, what they did in TOB was that they actually subtracted two dual-classes: the Stalker-Cleric and the Archer-Cleric.

I haven't been an advocate of third party patches and edits in the past, but now I am just dying for there to be some way to allow more classes to dual such as Paladin-Mage, Bard-Fighter, Archer-Mage, etc. I've accessed the dual class file and have successfully reenabled the stalker-cleric and archer-cleric, but beyond that any other dual class combinations when attempted in-game cause the program to crash.

Does anyone know of any way to make this happen or do you know of any tool which will do this?

--Riverwind

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:16 pm

I tried editing some of the .2DA files that state which duals are possible. Results:
[*]None of the non-standard classes can even be tried. The dual screen does not show any other buttons than Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Thief and Ranger.
[*]The ones that can be tried (such as Ranger to Thief) crashed my game, leaving me staring at a big black rectangle on my desktop. I gave up after several crashes, so I haven't tried all combinations.

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 5:04 pm

Actually, the dual-class screen .2DA file DOES show other classes to dual to, just make sure you scroll to the right to see all the classes across the top line. Now enabling them has the effect of when you create a character in TOB you suddenly have the dual class button high-lighted. And so I pressed that, and so far so good. But then when I selected "skills" it crashed. Which causes me to think that the problem has something to do with assigning weapon proficiencies for previously prohibited dual-classes. I then went to the file for weapon profiencies and did an edit replace to change all the numbers to 9 (I figured I'd just enable anything and then self-police myself as far as not putting more than 5 in a weapon proficiency). I then went back and tried to do it, again a crash when I hit skills. Someone suggested that the problem may have to do with the buttons on the bottom console--how would they come up with those buttons for a paladin-mage for example? I said that that shouldn't be hard. But then there are other problems. Anyway, it looks like short of a company patch or a third-party computer programmer, there's nothing we can do OTHER than reenable the stalker-cleric and archer-cleric which I was able to do through simply changing the zeroes to ones in the dual-class file screen chart.

--Riverwind

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 11:00 pm

not that it helps but, perhaps that is the reason the bg games don't have unlimited dual classing? could this be an engine restriction, rather than an intentional rule change.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:12 am

Originally posted by Riverwind:
[QB]Actually, the dual-class screen .2DA file DOES show other classes to dual to

Yup. I meant the in-game screen where you pick your second class.

I had the same crashes. It's probably hard-coded in the .exe, meaning we can't do anything about it.

Originally posted by koz-ivan:
perhaps that is the reason the bg games don't have unlimited dual classing? could this be an engine restriction, rather than an intentional rule change.

Yup. BG1 manual says so. Because of engine restrictions, only valid multi combos may be dualled to...

In Neverwinter Nights you will be able to multi into three classes. Still not up to PnP, which has no restrictions at all. The reason being GUI restrictions. I'd like to see the GUI for a Cleric/Bard/Druid...

Armadin of Clan Geddin · Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:57 am

Originally posted by Xyx:
[qb]In Neverwinter Nights you will be able to multi into three classes. Still not up to PnP, which has no restrictions at all. The reason being GUI restrictions. I'd like to see the GUI for a Cleric/Bard/Druid...

What about PoR2?

An' what's GUI?

I, fer one, am very interested in ranger/paladin, ranger/rogue, ranger/sorcerer an' ranger/monk. Anyone sense a pattern?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:11 am

If Neverwinter Nights and Ruins of Myth Drannor truly follows the D&D3 rules, there will not be restrictions on how many classes a character of any race can have. D&D3 characters have two different kind of levels: Character levels and class levels.

All characters have the same XP table. When you gain enough XP to go up a character level, you get to pick which class it's for. For instance, let's say you're playing a fifth level elf fighter. When he gets enough XP to be sixth level, he decides he wants to be a wizard. So he goes off to wizard school and becomes a first level wizard. Now he's a sixth level character with five d10 hit dice and one d4 hit die. When he gets enough XP to be a seventh level character, he can add a level to either his fighter or mage class, or even pick up a third class.

There is some more technical stuff dealing with XP penalties and racially-favoured classes; read the D&D3 rules for the complete low-down. The NWN and PoR2 game engines may have some more restrictions, but theoretically they should eliminate class and race restrictions for the new D&D3 ruleset (meaning that for everyone who wanted to play a dwarf sorcerer/paladin/druid, your time has come!).

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:48 am

Originally posted by Armadin of Clan Geddin:
what's GUI?

Graphical User Interface. The buttons and all.

Originally posted by Armadin of Clan Geddin:
I, fer one, am very interested in ranger/paladin

Warrior/warrior multis get one less attack at most levels than single classed warriors...

Originally posted by HighLordDave:
for everyone who wanted to play a dwarf sorcerer/paladin/druid, your time has come!

Almost... Alignment restrictions still apply. To become a Paladin/Druid you'd have to shift your alignment, thus losing your Paladin abilities...

Armadin of Clan Geddin · Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:55 am

Originally posted by Xyx:
Warrior/warrior multis get one less attack at most levels than single classed warriors...

Powergamer...

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:18 am

Originally posted by Xyx:
Almost... Alignment restrictions still apply. To become a Paladin/Druid you'd have to shift your alignment, thus losing your Paladin abilities...

I thought that the D&D3 ruleset lifted the alignment restrictions on druids (they did for rangers). I do think it interesting (and somewhat exciting) that now I can play an orc (or other goblinoid) paladin character!

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:52 pm

D&D3 alignment restrictions (straight from the Player's Handbook):

Barbarian: Never Lawful (wild at heart). Ex-Barbarians lose Rage ability.

Bard: Lifestyle incompatible with Lawful. Ex-Bard suffer no ability losses.

Cleric: Any, but at most one step away from their deity. Ex-Clerics lose all spells and class features until atoned.

Druid: Must be Neutral in some way (in keeping with nature's indifference). Ex-Druids lose all spells and druidic abilities until atoned.

Fighter: No restrictions.

Monk: Lawful (because of strict discipline). Ex-Monks suffer no ability losses. Multiclass restriction: may never again advance as Monk after advancing in any other class.

Paladin: Lawful Good only. Ex-Paladins lose all special abilities and spells until atoned. Multiclass restriction: may never again advance as Paladin after advancing in any other class.

Ranger: No restrictions (this has indeed changed). Most are Good.

Rogue: No restrictions. This has changed as well, enabling Paladin/Rogue combinations (how's that for a roleplaying nightmare

). More likely Chaotic than Lawful (duh).

Sorcerer: No restrictions. Tend to Chaos.

Wizard: No restrictions. Tend to Law.