Yeah, I've been taking a break from BG1 as of recently, but I've not forgotten about it.
One thing, I admit, is that I've really been one heck of a dwarf fan, and so I can't help but make one of my next PCs through the game (and into/through BG2) be a dwarf. The thing is, how's the best way to play through one?
The rest of my party is going to consist of Khalid, Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen, and Dynaheir. I just do the best with them
If I were to make him a Thief, I'd suppose I'd want to actually make him my guy to take care of locks, traps and such, and use Imoen mainly for stealth/backstabbing and picking pockets.
If I were to make him a Cleric, what spells would I get the most use of offensively?
If I were to make him a Fighter, what would be better: one as a vanilla fighter in BG2, or as a Berserker? Would a Fighter/Cleric be suitable? What about a Fighter/Thief?
As you can see, I'm pretty puzzled.
Curious about tips with Dwarf protagonist
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Curious about tips with Dwarf protagonist
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
If I were taking a dwarf through BG1 and 2 I would go with a fighter then make him a Kensai when importing him to BG2.
minor spoiler
There is a tome in BG1 that raises your constitution permanently by 1 point and since youre a dwarf you can have a natural constitution of 19 so the tome can raise it to 20. Characters with constitution of 20+ get regeneration and I think a regenerating Kensai along with the regeneration stone you get in Umar Hills( I think) would be awesome.
minor spoiler
There is a tome in BG1 that raises your constitution permanently by 1 point and since youre a dwarf you can have a natural constitution of 19 so the tome can raise it to 20. Characters with constitution of 20+ get regeneration and I think a regenerating Kensai along with the regeneration stone you get in Umar Hills( I think) would be awesome.
I'd say firsy of all try a different party, there's just something about the vanilla party that I don't think works. If I were going through the series with a Dwarf I would do the following:
Make him a straight fighter to be turned into a Berserker in BGII with as many profs as possible in axes
Definately give him a starting CON of 19 and the CON tome therefore granting him regeneration
And about the party try taking along the likes of Branwen/Yeslick(if you feel the need), Coran(start with Imoen), and Xan... think of the massive amounts of XP you'll get and managing a party of four is so much more pleasurable than the vanilla 5 plus dwarf PC
I've done Dwarf C/F's before with Hammers and they turned out pretty good, then you'd only need Xan and Coran; but I've never tried a Dwarf F/T before. That could be pretty fun and the regen would really come in handy with the armour restrictions.
Make him a straight fighter to be turned into a Berserker in BGII with as many profs as possible in axes
Definately give him a starting CON of 19 and the CON tome therefore granting him regeneration
And about the party try taking along the likes of Branwen/Yeslick(if you feel the need), Coran(start with Imoen), and Xan... think of the massive amounts of XP you'll get and managing a party of four is so much more pleasurable than the vanilla 5 plus dwarf PC
I've done Dwarf C/F's before with Hammers and they turned out pretty good, then you'd only need Xan and Coran; but I've never tried a Dwarf F/T before. That could be pretty fun and the regen would really come in handy with the armour restrictions.
"I'll take the stupid one who decided to threaten us, instead of shoot us when he had the chance" - Bao-Dur
Thats pretty much the 4 person party I have right now in chapter 7. My PC , Coran, Yeslick( I dumped Branwen when I got him) but instead of Xan I dualed Imoen and have her as my mage.
If you go with a fighter/cleric dwarf I would take along just Imoen dualed to mage and Coran. That would be a nice 3 person party.
If you go with a fighter/cleric dwarf I would take along just Imoen dualed to mage and Coran. That would be a nice 3 person party.
If I were playing a dwarf, I'd make him a Fighter/Cleric or a Berserker. I guess I'm pretty narrowminded when it comes to classes for the various races. (For example, I wouldn't make an elf a Berserker.) However, I'm not narrowminded about weapon choices. I'd give the Fighter/Cleric any of the following: hammer, mace, flail, and morningstar. I don't care too much for quarterstaves, but there's a one-handed staff-mace that I like to use. For a Berserker, I prefer axes and two-handed swords. I suppose halberds (two-handed axes?) are a possibility, but pole-arms just never struck me as glamorous. Maybe someone can create a custom two-handed great axe for you; I wouldn't mind having one myself.
Note: A Berserker can put five proficiency points in a weapon type in BG2, so given the limited number of points you can distribute, you need to decide early on which kind of weapon you want to use. A Fighter/Cleric, on the other hand, can only put two proficiency points in a weapon type, but given the number of points you can distribute, your character can be equally proficient with several different kinds of weapons, so in that respect you have more flexibility (if not quite as much proficiency in any given type).
For a Fighter/Cleric, your best offense is a good defense, so to speak, so most of your spells should be devoted to buffing up your character. Bless, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Free Action are the main buffing spells I can think of (there are also many types of potions). I don't cast many offensive spells in combat (I play a Fighter/Cleric more as a "tank" than as a spellcaster), but there are some spells you'll want to use before (or maybe even during) a battle, depending on the circumstances: Hold Person, Silence 15' Radius, Animate Dead, Glyph of Warding, and Flamestrike. I think all of those spells are pretty cool. You can also cast healing spells after a battle, of course. I rarely ever try to cast healing spells in the middle of a battle because they take too long to cast and they can be disrupted; I just let my wounded characters retreat while my other party members cover for them.
When you get to BG2, the offensive and defensive spells are awesome. So are the Berserker's talents--fearsome combat skills and Rage, which is very useful as a "protection spell". In my opinion, a Berserker dualled to a Cleric is more powerful than a Fighter/Cleric or a Berserker in BG2:SoA, but once you get to Throne of Bhaal, I don't think you'd have any complaints about any of your characters. Mages and Clerics run out of spells, but you just can't argue with a Berserker's staying power, especially if he's a dwarf.
As Idioteque suggested, you definitely want your character to have CON 20, so plan ahead.
I don't have much to say about your party composition; that's entirely up to you.
Note: A Berserker can put five proficiency points in a weapon type in BG2, so given the limited number of points you can distribute, you need to decide early on which kind of weapon you want to use. A Fighter/Cleric, on the other hand, can only put two proficiency points in a weapon type, but given the number of points you can distribute, your character can be equally proficient with several different kinds of weapons, so in that respect you have more flexibility (if not quite as much proficiency in any given type).
For a Fighter/Cleric, your best offense is a good defense, so to speak, so most of your spells should be devoted to buffing up your character. Bless, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Free Action are the main buffing spells I can think of (there are also many types of potions). I don't cast many offensive spells in combat (I play a Fighter/Cleric more as a "tank" than as a spellcaster), but there are some spells you'll want to use before (or maybe even during) a battle, depending on the circumstances: Hold Person, Silence 15' Radius, Animate Dead, Glyph of Warding, and Flamestrike. I think all of those spells are pretty cool. You can also cast healing spells after a battle, of course. I rarely ever try to cast healing spells in the middle of a battle because they take too long to cast and they can be disrupted; I just let my wounded characters retreat while my other party members cover for them.
When you get to BG2, the offensive and defensive spells are awesome. So are the Berserker's talents--fearsome combat skills and Rage, which is very useful as a "protection spell". In my opinion, a Berserker dualled to a Cleric is more powerful than a Fighter/Cleric or a Berserker in BG2:SoA, but once you get to Throne of Bhaal, I don't think you'd have any complaints about any of your characters. Mages and Clerics run out of spells, but you just can't argue with a Berserker's staying power, especially if he's a dwarf.
As Idioteque suggested, you definitely want your character to have CON 20, so plan ahead.
I don't have much to say about your party composition; that's entirely up to you.
i suppose it doesnt work if you have a goodaligned party, but i made a dwarf fighter, 19con + 1tome, maximum strength and dex +all other tomes, and about 8-9 int/wis to start with, and 10 cha. He is UNSTOPPABLE.
Then, I got Kagain, gave him the golves of dexerity and i have another unstoppable dwarf. They make an amazing team, and fully regenerate when you rest
add a mage, cleric, thief and whatever else (ive got another fighter but it really isnt necessary) and my party hasnt lost except for rare occasions, when i get an unseen trap or a fight when i need a rest
Then, I got Kagain, gave him the golves of dexerity and i have another unstoppable dwarf. They make an amazing team, and fully regenerate when you rest
add a mage, cleric, thief and whatever else (ive got another fighter but it really isnt necessary) and my party hasnt lost except for rare occasions, when i get an unseen trap or a fight when i need a rest
'My pantaloons are full of weasels. Inform the Queen, so that she might shoo them away. Here we go 'round the mulberry bush. Go monkey GO!'-Wanev
Have you ever heard any more inspiring or logical words? I sure haven't.
Have you ever heard any more inspiring or logical words? I sure haven't.
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Galuf the Dwarf
- Posts: 3160
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
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These are the stats I'm looking to start with:
Dwarf Fighter
Neutral Good
18/93-00 Str
16 or 17 Dex
19 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
16 Cha
Sure, that would leave for alot of stat rolls and headaches, but it would be worth it. Besides, he's going to be my party leader.
When I make him into a Berserker in BG2, I plan to actually give him max proficiency in War Hammer and shield (for the Dwarven Thrower and another famous weapon). Axes aren't that bad, but I usually have Minsc use those, and there are none that go above +3. I think I'll leave halberds for the bard I'll have to remake.
For BG1, though, I'll put his proficiencies in Blunt Weapons, Axe, and - later on - Missile weapons (for Crossbows).
Well, I guess I've got it all figured out anyways, so there's not much else to say for now.
Dwarf Fighter
Neutral Good
18/93-00 Str
16 or 17 Dex
19 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
16 Cha
Sure, that would leave for alot of stat rolls and headaches, but it would be worth it. Besides, he's going to be my party leader.
When I make him into a Berserker in BG2, I plan to actually give him max proficiency in War Hammer and shield (for the Dwarven Thrower and another famous weapon). Axes aren't that bad, but I usually have Minsc use those, and there are none that go above +3. I think I'll leave halberds for the bard I'll have to remake.
For BG1, though, I'll put his proficiencies in Blunt Weapons, Axe, and - later on - Missile weapons (for Crossbows).
Well, I guess I've got it all figured out anyways, so there's not much else to say for now.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
I just started a new game with an neutral evil cleric/thief. I'm not sure I like the c/t... it seems like a very unlikely multiclass to me... but I'm going to give it a shot.
Does anybody have any suggestions about how to make an effective c/t? What spells to use? Will he be able to backstab, since he's only able to use cleric weapons?
Does anybody have any suggestions about how to make an effective c/t? What spells to use? Will he be able to backstab, since he's only able to use cleric weapons?
She says: Lou, it's the Beginning of a Great Adventure
A Neutral Evil Cleric/Thief seems less plausible to me than a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief. A Neutral Evil character must necessarily be a bit selfish, but a Neutral Evil Thief must be even more so, and I can't reconcile that with the devotion to a higher power that being a Cleric must entail (not even an evil one). You might picture someone like Robert Tilton, but when you get down to it, he's a phony, and no self-respecting deity would bestow any blessings on him, so in the end, I don't think he would be a success.
On the other hand, I have no trouble picturing someone like Friar Tuck, whose ultimate goal is to serve a higher purpose and minister to the disenfranchised but who isn't above pickpocketing a rich man's purse or harboring good-hearted criminals (think of Samuel or Robin Hood) or pulling off a con job for the good of the church. Or you might picture someone like Nalia who isn't so intolerably snooty, singleminded, and naive (if that's possible).
From a practical standpoint, you'll probably end up playing a Cleric/Thief as a Cleric who occasionally looks for traps and opens locks. You might do a little bit of pickpocketing, but if I recall correctly, the pickings are very slim (Drizzt is the biggest exception I can think of) and it's very difficult to steal from stores without getting caught. If you want to do any backstabbing, you can use a club or a quarterstaff. Tales of the Sword Coast adds a couple of nice items in that department. (Ever hear of the Staff of Striking?) I've never really used those weapons all that much (I haven't played a Cleric/Thief), but you might be pleasantly surprised. I recommend casting Bless, Draw Upon Holy Might, and other spells to improve your chance to hit and the amount of damage you inflict. There are also many different potions a Cleric/Thief can use. I don't think I'd play him as a "tank", though. You'll probably end up equipping him with a sling, and again, Tales of the Sword Coast adds a nice item in that department. You could use a Wand of Magic Missiles to disrupt an enemy spellcaster, but spells such as Silence 15' Radius and Miscast Magic are often more effective. And don't underestimate Animate Dead, Hold Person, and Glyph of Warding (the "Holy Hand Grenade"). And of course, you can always cast healing spells after (or during) a battle.
I think a Cleric/Thief might be very interesting to play in BG2: Throne of Bhaal (because of the High Level Abilities, of course). If your character lasts that long, let us know how it goes.
By the way, does anyone know if the Staff Mace can be used as a backstabbing weapon? It's a nice weapon, but I don't remember ever giving it to a Thief.
On the other hand, I have no trouble picturing someone like Friar Tuck, whose ultimate goal is to serve a higher purpose and minister to the disenfranchised but who isn't above pickpocketing a rich man's purse or harboring good-hearted criminals (think of Samuel or Robin Hood) or pulling off a con job for the good of the church. Or you might picture someone like Nalia who isn't so intolerably snooty, singleminded, and naive (if that's possible).
From a practical standpoint, you'll probably end up playing a Cleric/Thief as a Cleric who occasionally looks for traps and opens locks. You might do a little bit of pickpocketing, but if I recall correctly, the pickings are very slim (Drizzt is the biggest exception I can think of) and it's very difficult to steal from stores without getting caught. If you want to do any backstabbing, you can use a club or a quarterstaff. Tales of the Sword Coast adds a couple of nice items in that department. (Ever hear of the Staff of Striking?) I've never really used those weapons all that much (I haven't played a Cleric/Thief), but you might be pleasantly surprised. I recommend casting Bless, Draw Upon Holy Might, and other spells to improve your chance to hit and the amount of damage you inflict. There are also many different potions a Cleric/Thief can use. I don't think I'd play him as a "tank", though. You'll probably end up equipping him with a sling, and again, Tales of the Sword Coast adds a nice item in that department. You could use a Wand of Magic Missiles to disrupt an enemy spellcaster, but spells such as Silence 15' Radius and Miscast Magic are often more effective. And don't underestimate Animate Dead, Hold Person, and Glyph of Warding (the "Holy Hand Grenade"). And of course, you can always cast healing spells after (or during) a battle.
I think a Cleric/Thief might be very interesting to play in BG2: Throne of Bhaal (because of the High Level Abilities, of course). If your character lasts that long, let us know how it goes.
By the way, does anyone know if the Staff Mace can be used as a backstabbing weapon? It's a nice weapon, but I don't remember ever giving it to a Thief.
Originally posted by VonDondu
A Neutral Evil Cleric/Thief seems less plausible to me than a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief. A Neutral Evil character must necessarily be a bit selfish, but a Neutral Evil Thief must be even more so, and I can't reconcile that with the devotion to a higher power that being a Cleric must entail (not even an evil one).
I figure someone who worships an evil deity, even a rogue, wouldn't necessarily have to be truly devoted to that deity. It seems to me he or she could be worshipping an evil god for no other reason than the powers (s)he would receive.
I see your point though. So far, trying to roleplay this particular pc has been a bit odd... Chaotic neutral seems a far more appropriate alignment than neutral evil. Once again, I wish they'd implemented the Planescape: Torment alignment-system into this game.
On a practical level, the one-weapon-slot restriction is proving to be very annoying, but not as annoying as the fact that the thieving ability is only accessible through the special abilities-button... Wish me luck on this one. And patience.
She says: Lou, it's the Beginning of a Great Adventure
staff mace
@ VonDondu:
I seem to recall backstabbing with the staff mace, not bad and its nice to have a shield equipped with a f/t or c/t (Staff mace for Tiax, like a scepter for his rule...). Having a 2d4 backstab weapon really helps the multiplication minimum (over a dagger, say), but of course not as spectacular as the good old staff of striking. That beast of a weapon really streamlined the time I soloed a f/t through BGI... (even Sarevok exploded on the 3rd whack in the back).
@ VonDondu:
I seem to recall backstabbing with the staff mace, not bad and its nice to have a shield equipped with a f/t or c/t (Staff mace for Tiax, like a scepter for his rule...). Having a 2d4 backstab weapon really helps the multiplication minimum (over a dagger, say), but of course not as spectacular as the good old staff of striking. That beast of a weapon really streamlined the time I soloed a f/t through BGI... (even Sarevok exploded on the 3rd whack in the back).
Tired of working here wanted a holiday was thinking of retiring probably going to die. Time to move on under down... down down.
Usefull spells, usefull spells... OK! Sanctuary is a first level invisibilty spell usefull for the c/t. Also usefull are the weapon summoning spells, particularly Spiritual Hammer. A feature of it that was removed in bg2 is that you can backstab with it. Uh, don't over look spells like chant and aid, these can be used as buffers on the battlefield. The wands of lightning and the wands of fire + both protection spells make for close range dangerous fun.
That's all I can think of.
That's all I can think of.
No probalo.
another excellent spell on a c/t would be command...take him into a house alone, command the occupants and loot away
'My pantaloons are full of weasels. Inform the Queen, so that she might shoo them away. Here we go 'round the mulberry bush. Go monkey GO!'-Wanev
Have you ever heard any more inspiring or logical words? I sure haven't.
Have you ever heard any more inspiring or logical words? I sure haven't.
So far my c/t is doing all right... and he's still in a one man party! I'll try and solo as much as possible. Not having a bag of holding sux, btw!
So far, some of the priestspells I've hardly ever used before in other games are turning out to be quite useful. Sanctuary (a good thief only gets into a fight when absolutely necessary), Spiritual Hammer and the like...
So far, some of the priestspells I've hardly ever used before in other games are turning out to be quite useful. Sanctuary (a good thief only gets into a fight when absolutely necessary), Spiritual Hammer and the like...
She says: Lou, it's the Beginning of a Great Adventure
Originally posted by VonDondu
A Neutral Evil Cleric/Thief seems less plausible to me than a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief. A Neutral Evil character must necessarily be a bit selfish, but a Neutral Evil Thief must be even more so, and I can't reconcile that with the devotion to a higher power that being a Cleric must entail (not even an evil one). You might picture someone like Robert Tilton, but when you get down to it, he's a phony, and no self-respecting deity would bestow any blessings on him, so in the end, I don't think he would be a success.
Just a quick question - why isn't a chaotic good cleric / theif plausible? I've always thought of good aligned theieves as Robin-hood wannabes or (more commonly for me) treasure hunters / "final argument arbitrators" (Please, not assasin!
) depending on what they do.edit:
And the fact is, being a god devoted man doesn't stop violence to begin with, what would stop him from the darker paths of violence?
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary and those that don't
Those that understand binary and those that don't
I meant that a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief sounds plausible to me. In the paragraph that follows the one you quoted from me, I use Friar Tuck as an example of a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief. He's one of the best-known members of Robin Hood's Band of Merry Men.Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Just a quick question - why isn't a chaotic good cleric / theif plausible? I've always thought of good aligned theieves as Robin-hood wannabes...
Originally posted by VonDondu
I meant that a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief sounds plausible to me. In the paragraph that follows the one you quoted from me, I use Friar Tuck as an example of a Chaotic Good Cleric/Thief. He's one of the best-known members of Robin Hood's Band of Merry Men.
Sorry - I must have been half asleep and misread you (makes sense since I'd just woken up
There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary and those that don't
Those that understand binary and those that don't