Nevermind the schwarz. Is KotoR too short?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:04 am

It feels that way. Sure, you can stand around killing beasties forever on some planets just to raise levels, but when it comes to real quests and various activities, the game feels much shorter than the BG series, Arcanum, and PS:T. How do you feel about this?

Mathurin · Post by **Mathurin** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:07 am

I think it was adequate. Took me 43 hours the first time through and I did everything but didnt waste a horrible amount of time. I would have loved it if it were longer but I feel that way about most games.

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:03 pm

Most things are shorter -- and to a point lacking -- in comparison with the BG series. But I felt the same way; it was too short. As I knew I was nearing the end of the game, I started to play it in shorter sittings because I just didn't want it to be over so soon...

Mattaeus · Post by **Mattaeus** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:23 pm

I did think it was to short, but atleast it had a replayability factor.........The levels where to short and strait forward, there was no loosing yourself in a masive landscape(but with the graphics I'm sure that wasnt an option.....yet)
The quests where way to easy, but they were designed more for outcome then for what loot your going to get (with the exception of the Genoharadan Quests) for most of them it didnt realy matter how you finished the quest, it was if you wanted to be "good" or "evil".
And the game pushed you towards the end; there was no way you could realy deviate from the story line, or do your own thing....it always led back to main story. Which i guess isnt so bad, if it didnt you would end up with something like Morrwind......Then Id never get any sleep

I think if the levels where more open ended, and they had some hidden quests, random treasure hunts and maybe the odd wandering monster to kill thats been terorizing citys, eating the rich and spiting out the poor! One with Giant nashy narly TEETH, THAT DROOLED HOT FUDGE! THAT HAD 10 EYES, 2 TORSOS, 3 HEADS, AND WAS A POOPING MACHINE FROM HELLLLL!!!.........

...Im sorry I forgot what I was talking about

Necrotaur · Post by **Necrotaur** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:25 pm

Yeah, my first playthrough I finished in 27 hours, and my second, more in-depth one I finished at 35 (no pazaak though, just can't stand that game). KotOR feels very, very short to me.

I think part of this could be that the items and accessories are very limited and have no real feel or personality to them. Upgrading is just a question of 'tab A goes into slot B', and choosing which item to use is a choice between 'what does the most damage' for weapons, and 'what protects the most' for armor. Very vanilla.

corsair · Post by **corsair** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 6:11 pm

I think the reason that it is shorter is that it was desinged to apeal to console gamers. Your average console gamer who does not also own a pc usually likes shorter games because they have a shorter attetion span. Most hardcore rpgs are desinged for computer. Pretty much any RPG desinged first on the console is going 2 be shorter than one desinged for the PC first.

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:25 pm

I think you hit the nail right on the head, Necrotaur. I think "vanilla" is the perfect word to describe the feel of the entire game. Enjoyable, but very bland.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:51 pm

Originally posted by Léah
I think you hit the nail right on the head, Necrotaur. I think "vanilla" is the perfect word to describe the feel of the entire game. Enjoyable, but very bland.

Same here. Of course, the magazines are falling all over themselves raving about it, so this single fact will probably never make it through the critical blender; but it's true, nonetheless. If we were to visualize KotoR as a BG style game complete with the Infinity engine, its lack of distinctive personality in different areas would be apparent. There are more people engaged in various activities around the 3D modeling in KotoR, but more conversations and activities to add flavor in BG2.

The question is whether Bioware will take its engine and turn next to a PC title with its greater level of sophistication, given its probable audience, or attempt to reproduce the same success with a title skewed for the Xbox market.

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:21 pm

It's unfortunate, because I like the story and the characters. Also, the graphics look good and the worlds are intriguing, if not very immersive. I almost wish Bioware would postpone the PC date even further and make it an even better game-- one that doesn't pander to the younger, less involved console gamer. But it sounds like there aren't going to be too many changes from Xbox to PC and that's a shame. Most KotOR players seem to have the same basic gripes about the game-- inventory and menu systems, unsatisfactory weapons upgrades, etc.-- so it would be nice if Bioware would take the hints from the peanut gallery and use them to improve upon the game. But what are the odds...

Mattaeus · Post by **Mattaeus** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:48 am

There use to be a time when I looked for games that had on it "Min 70+" times on it just so I would feel like Im getting my moneys worth out of a game. Its not very often where I play a game that challenges me for more then a week if not a few days. I boght an Xbox for a gaming experiance that I couldnt get on my PC, and for the fact that I wouldnt have to worry about upgrading, patching, or conflictions with my system.....in ecence a smooth running, problem free game. KoToR did this for me; it had very little problems with it, it was entertaining, visualy pleasing, good story line....even if it didnt have all the elements of a RPG that I look for or really challeng me (mind you I was on Evercrack for a while so I may have spoiled my rpg experiance for life). So for me, I guess it was worth it....
.......unlike other failed games like Dark Alliance, D&D, anything from Xicat and Morrowind (I may have played it more if it didnt CRASH on my Xbox)
Iv been watching Fable, Sudeki and even Gladius for a decent RPG but I dont think its there, mind you I will buy them just couse of the hype (even if they say the Gladius Demo sucked and was more like FF Tatics...But then they pushed it back almost 3 months) I miss games like FF 7, StarOcean, Wizzadry and even Ultima and the original Pools of Radiance (even if they wernt console games) - Games designed for the Hard Core Gamer.
I think there trying to hard to bring a more realistic experiance to the gaming world...bigger graphics, bigger sound, and enuff voice overs to make it a nagging experiance. There going to spoil us for the realy RPGs out there where you have to read the script, endure the repeditive music tracks, and sit through cheesy cut senes!! Now thats what Im talking about!!
I guess what Im trying to say is that they should focus more on charater develipment, story and adventure...not how much eye-candy they can put together.

Mattaeus · Post by **Mattaeus** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:53 am

Man can I go on ...I cant wait till Im old and senile so I have a reson to bable on about something that goes on and on about nothing

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:49 am

Well, despite the taboos and stigmas, I like my consoles, and I've enjoyed playing many non-RPG games on them since the days of Atari and Commodore. I just wish they'd start releasing some decent RPGs for console because those are my favourite games to play. Also, I like the feel of using a console controller more than a keyboard, even if the keyboard does give you more freedom (I know what you're thinking, and it's not because I can't use the keyboard, I just like the console control). But there just isn't a market for great, involving RPGs on the console. I liked Morrowind, but I had a big problem with it crashing and freezing, too. Maybe with the success in sales of KotOR, companies will start testing the demographic waters and give us a little more to bite at.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:43 am

Console fans do seem to be willing to accept a shorter product than PC players. I suspect the history of lengthy RPGs on the PC has developed a sense of expectation which producers on consoles are just as happy to avoid.

I can still remember the various older Ultima, Wizardry and Might and Magic games stating on the box "Playing Length: 100+ hours" as though it were a simple statement of fact rather than a boast. It was kinda expected.

jennabard · Post by **jennabard** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:18 pm

There are some very good rpgs out there for the game consoles, of course other than morrorwind (which I didn't like because it was in first person veiw). most are from japan and probably too linear for a pc gamer.

Being brought up on console rpgs, I sometime feel that a non-linear game to be too daughting and my only experience with pc games has been on the Baldur's gate seires and Fallout I, II (which I absolutely LOVE).

Console rpgs too short? The recent ones definitely. But you also have great rpgs like Xenogear (PS1), Persona 2 (PS1) and of course Final Fantasy 7 (PS1) and they all pretty much clock over 60 hours, longer if your trying to unlock everything.

Is STKOR too short? Definitely! I love the characters and the game play, I wish they gave more side quests and missions.

After finishing STKOR, I am currently relishing the joy of console gaming that a pc will never have....SOUL CALIBUR II!

Nomi Biet · Post by **Nomi Biet** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:36 am

Originally posted by fable
It feels that way. Sure, you can stand around killing beasties forever on some planets just to raise levels, but when it comes to real quests and various activities, the game feels much shorter than the BG series, Arcanum, and PS:T. How do you feel about this?

I'm amazed at some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread. For people so dissatisfied with this game, you sure do invest a lot of time discussing it. This is the best console RPG ever made, outside of the GTA franchise. Sure, it might not be as good as BG on the PC, but RPGs lend themselves to computer systems better than they do consoles. It is incredibly hard to satisfy the requirements of a console with regard to RPGs, and have good flow and playability, and they walked that thin line perfectly. I imagine there will be expansion packs for the PC and sequels to the Xbox. But you can replay the game infinite numbers of ways, this should keep you entertained for the time being. Where's the gratitude for the many good, even incredible aspects of the game, instead of nitpicking on its few, minor inadequacies?

Léah · Post by **Léah** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:21 pm

This is the best console RPG ever made

You're exactly right. However, it isn't the best RPG ever made. Also, I've been reading the forum since its beginning, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention that he didn't like the game. I loved KotOR and really enjoy playing it. However, with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight, there are minor gripes I have about the game. The fact that I find flaws doesn't detract from the overall experience.

Alienbob · Post by **Alienbob** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:09 am

First off let me say that I enjoyed this game very much. I think that it is one of the best Star Wars games ever made. (which might not really be saying much

) But as far as what I have come to expect from Bioware, this game this game much like NWN was a disapointment. I beat it in a mere 30 hours and the majority of the quests in the game were fairly repetitive. Dont get me wrong it was fun, but it felt more like an action game with a lot of dialogue than an RPG.

Originally posted by Nomi Biet
This is the best console RPG ever made, outside of the GTA franchise.

Funny, I never knew the GTA games were RPGs...............