2 Questions: Certain Scroll (SPOIL?) / Uber-Party

adventurerkilly · Post by **adventurerkilly** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:28 pm

Ok, I played bg2soa a lot, now here are two questions that I just can't get solved...

[SPOILER? maybe]

Q1

WHERE can I find a damn scroll of 'Imprisonment'? Is it even possible in SoA? Besides being a sorceror I mean. I don't know if you can get it in random drop (as you can get some 9th level spells) or in that fancy book Perth drops.

In fact, I'm using Imprisonment in multiplayer, imprisoning my own characters. This has two advantages: You can send them to rest without having them leave forever, so you can do the regular npc quests. Plus, once your cleric reaches a high level, you will gain another holy symbol EVERY time you free him from imprisonment.... ^^'

Q2

I was thinking about building a really, really incredibly powerful party in multiplayer, capable of finishing the game on hardest diff level with no greater probs. So far, I'm quite puzzled what that party could consist of.

I was thinking of a Berserk/Cleric at first, which is ineed quite strong. I plan using ToB, so I guess I can level to 24 berserk easily in SoA and dual to cleric, so the other chars can cover the loss of the berserk already.
I'm especially puzzled about the type of mage I'm gonna use. I myself prefer the Wild Mage to the sorceror, Nahals Magic gets way too powerful at higher levels, where it' simply 6 or so additional lvl 7+ spells (preferably the nice acceleration/time stop combo with abi-dhalzim).
I'd put another cleric in, however, but as a multiclass mage/cleric. Preferably elf, so the high dex can increase the armor. Elven mails are quite easy to get, so you have a nice reinforcer.
I know one needs a thief, and I'm tied between warrior/thief and swashbuckler. I have thiefs use two weapons always, so it's not an easy decision.

That's three chars... and as for the other 3 I really don't know. I'd like someone with a big hitter, so maybe a two-hand berserk with halberd (wave) or a two-handed sword.... Or maybe a kensai, as he can stand back behind two tanks and thanks to two hand range he can still fight. And kensais do a LOT of damage, and you can normally get them to ac 1 very fast. Maybe another berserk or even berserk/cleric would fit nicely, too.

I had a party with bers/cler, bers, kensai, swashbuckler, cler/mage and wild mage once, but I have a feeling that there are far more powerful combinations.

If you have any experience in such things, I'd be glad to discuss it.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:09 pm

Q1:
Isn't there one in Riebald's private stash after you return in chapter 6? I know it is available because I recently had Imoen collect all the spells and the only ones she couldn't find were Gate and Ice Storm. Maybe it is only available as a random drop.

Q2:
I haven't played ToB but here is what seems to me a very powerful party:

Monk
Berserker/Mage
Ranger/Cleric
Kensai/Thief
Elven Archer
Sorceror (or Wild Mage, if you prefer)

All of possible spell types are covered (because R/C gets both druid and cleric spells). You have 4 tanks if you need them, 2 mages and 2 range attackers (3 if you count the R/C).

If you really feel the need for a Mage/Cleric (which has certain advantages when using contingency type spells) you could drop the R/C or the B/M and still have 3 decent tanks.

A paladin might be nice to wield Carsomyr, but I don't think it would be necessary. I would go for Undead Hunter, but that is much more useful in SoA than ToB, I think.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:01 pm

q1: i am pretty sure there is an imprison scroll at suldenesslar, in one of the houses, or in ribauld's secret stash...i think at the elven city, since I don't recall ribauld having one...

q2...how do you feel about shadowkeeper???

a four person evil nasty bash everyone party...4 chars will level up fast enough to make multiclass much better...

btw...if you install ease of use by weimer, you can install the component that allows you to tell a multiplayer created npc to wait for you at the copper coronet...

kensai/mage MULTICLASS...
kensai/Thief or assassin/fighter multiclass....
wildmage/cleric multi...
totemic druid/fighter or druid/kensai

alternates..

assassin/mage (think poisoned melf minute meteors)
berserker/cleric (very very powerful)

these are all easy to do...

my party (Requires VERY advanced shadowkeeper knowledge)

kensai/cleric/sorceror/druid pc...
jaheira=kensai/totemic druid
solafein=kensai/conjuror...
imoen=thief/wildmage dual...
aerie=conjuror/cleric....

sometimes, for the sheer heck of it, i've made aerie and imoen kensai...hehhehehhe!!!!!!

making minsc into a kensai undead hunter was a mistake...against undead he was completely unstoppable...

oh yeah...

if you install tactics mod, you can create archer/clerics or archer druids or archer mages.....eeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!

called shot and melf minute meteors...or energy blades is evil....evil...evil....did i mention it was evil???

antipally/mage is another incredibly powerful multi with tactics mod...

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:43 pm

q1.: last time I went through Ribals stash I didn't find a scroll of imprisonment, only one of Freedom, sheez

I have found one myself yet, any of the times I've played through SoA or ToB, so I would think it might be random if some have gotten it from drops in that elven city.

q2:
Personally - I'd go as few multiclass and more dual class as possible.
I would not go 24 berserker to dual to a cleric.
A cleric becomes insanely powerfull around level 20ish and upwards.
You can blow up generic liches around level 25-30 with turn undead, all but quest vampires will explode and so on.
Undeads are no problem for a level 25ish+ Cleric.
My "best" turn undead were 4 generic liches and some greater mummies I blew up at one time.

If you want a paladin, go with the inquisitor. The dispel and true sight are two very nice spells on a forefront fighter, so he can dispel the illusions of the foes he is fighting. Plus it opens up for other and (more) importent spells for the other spellcasters.

Somebody to wield the "Wave" might be good, but again personally, I'd have somebody dual wield the Crom Faeyr(sp? - hammer that gives 25 strengt) and the Flail of Ages wich in ToB can become +5.
That combination is leathal.

Likewise, I'd have somebody hold on to the Celestial Fury. It will stun high level enermies also. I've had Adamantium Golems stunned by it in my latest run to SoA.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:32 am

agreed, if you run a full party of 6 or 5...

but with a party of four, or less, the multi's will level up fast and make multiclasses much much more powerful....

the argument between dual or multi comes down to this...multi if you like smaller parties, dual if you want a bigger party...

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:00 am

If you dont want to edit classes like user suggests hehe (I myself like to play archer/cleric multi with grandmastery in sling.) then I suggest a fighter orientated party with two blades in it. Once you get improved bard song for your blades insane difficulty wont matter much because nothing will harm you.
Play blade as pc, go and pick up haerdalis, anomen, keldorn, korgan and jan/yoshimo/imoen. possibly change for your brother later on. This is quite powerful imho.
Or you could create them all yourself to be more powerful but you would be behind in levels. Starting out as a blade and picking up haerdalis first means and then picking up the others as you and haerry are level 13-14 means your party will be level 12-13 straight away. A few stupid proficiencies perhaps but they can be corretected in time.

adventurerkilly · Post by **adventurerkilly** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:29 am

First of all, thx a lot for all the answs!

Sorry if I sound like a noob, but.... HOW should I make all the classes you suggested? Actually I always thought certain combos just won't go, such that kensai/cleric/sorceror/druid character. Isn't that impossible? And what the heck is an antipally? I'm not familiar with the term 'shadowkeeper', maybe that will answer all that.

as for now, i think I'll make a 4 ppl party:

bers/cleric with crom faeyr/flail
kensai/thief, probably twohand-sword to use carsomyr once i acquire use any item
kensai/mage, probably dual katana, with cel fury
totemic druid/fighter with wave, if possible im not sure

You think that ok? BTW, I'm talking but the orignial game, no mods, no edit no nothing. I'm not sure, but I think that may be quite an uber party...

As for imprisonment, I'm pretty sure that neither ribald nor suldanessalar feature that scroll. Correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: IF that party is OK, at what lvl shall I dual the chars?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:06 am

Personally - I'd dual at around level 9 for fighters to get the "next" weapon profencie star, but that is my personally view.
It often depends on what class you dual into, for instance clerics and thiefs level faster then wizards and such, wich is an indicator.

But usually I keep mine at around 9 fighter, especially to get for instance a high level rather fast.
I can never stress enough the power of "turn undead" for higher level clerics.

@Userunfriendly: I personally always prefere dual class over multiclass. Especially because they can get to higher level faster and thus better abilities, and because I play the game "pure" without mods or hacks of any kind. Only SoA + ToB with patches.
And I'd rather have a mage able to cast more level 8, 9 or 10 spells then a mage that can meele better for instance.
And this goes for all my characters.
One of two multiclass is okay - but more then that and I feel it is spreading to thin.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:27 pm

Q1: I having nothing to add.

(Major Spoilers)
Q2: I found this party too-powerful, but you asked. My biggest pain has always been the big baddies & mages have a lot of protections. So (all multi-class):

1. Fighter/Theif - Celestial Fury/FoA. I prefer a dwarven Barbarian/Theif, but just about any kit rocks for this combo. Also, you can put just about anything in the off-hand.

2. Palidin - Carsymyr - good damage, it gets past Mantle & it dispels. I prefer the UH kit, but all kits are great for different reasons.

3. Kensai/Mage - SoM - also dispels. Many claims on this site about this being the most offensive character possible. I won't go into why again. In this case, all other kits are inferior.

4. Bard - Improved Bard Song keeps your party safe from a lot of annoying spells & adds AC, damage, MR etc. This character is also a backup mage & with the Blade kit, can fight well too. I usually keep my Kensai/Mage fighting & use the Bard for the range spells. Here I prefer the Blade kit. If you get into a fight. You can dual-weild Scarlet Ninja-To & Belm for 4 attacks. Offensive spin & you are at 5.

The formation to use is the staggered one. With four characters you end up with a diamond formation. #1 is out front hiding & backstabing. #2 & #3 have extended reach weapons to hit overtop of #1 if necessary, that are also (treated) as +5 to get past Mantle & otherwise dispel all the protections. #4 sits in the very back and sings & casts the occasional spell if necessary.

Like I said at the beginning though, this Party is a little too powerful. Play it if you want to.

adventurerkilly · Post by **adventurerkilly** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 1:58 pm

No offense... but could you wirte out that abreviations, SoM and such, plz? I'm german, so I can only figure the item out when I know the name.. sry

Balinor · Post by **Balinor** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:44 pm

FoA is the Flail of Ages.

UH kit is the Paladin Undead Hunter kit.

SoM is the Staff of the Magi.

I assume you know the usual AC, magic resistance, etc.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:18 am

adventure....

a kensai sorceror cleric druid is flat out impossible...so I cheated, a WHOLE lot to create a virtual kensai sorceror cleric druid...but it is just barely possible with shadowkeeper, the save game editor....

xandax, i do have to admit the dual tends to be more powerful earier on, but i personally am much more familiar with multiclass...

now, adventure, most or all the kits i've mentioned are flat out impossible, but i do assure you they can actually be created...its just hard, and very annoying...

oh yeah, antipally is the anti paladin kit, part of weimer's tactics mod...

oh yeah, guys, someone released a druidic sorceror kit...a sorceror with some very powerful and very spectacular druid spells...

actually looking at the kit made me realize how EASY it is for a sorceror to cast druidic or cleric spells...just edit the spl files with near infinity and change them into mage spells and add them to a sorceror..

hmmm...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:39 am

Kensai/Mage - SoM - also dispels. Many claims on this site about this being the most offensive

Personally I disagree. All kinds of fighter/mages have a massive advantage over other fighting classes: defense!
If properly played, when the time comes they can't be hit, can't be targeted by direct spells, can't be harmed in any way, can preserve all of their protections with a couple of Spell Immunity, hey, they can't be even reached if they want (Teleport Field, Improved Haste or whatever). And with a little patience in planning defensive Contingencies and Triggers, this can be true at any time, beyond your will.

After all, a pure fighter or even a thief can kill (and be killed!) even faster

@User: I told you to use NI if you REALLY wanted to cheat!

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:26 am

My 2 gold worth..

First a couple of minor notes:

Don't forget staves as a weapon skill - there are many good staves out there.

Also, I would personally take that Dragonsbreath (name ?) halberd that drops in the underdark over Wave - the multi-elemental damage is very nice for punching through a variety of protections.

The Shadowkeeper editor, along with about a billion other Mods and resources is available by following the thread BG Reference Crossroads at the top of this forum.

An insanely overpowered mod NPC you might find interesting is Valen

As to the optimal party - well, it depends on how cheesy you want to be, and also on your own personal preferrred fighting mode (mage heavy vs. melee heavy, steamroller versus sneaky approach, yadda yadda yadda). Further, do you want to play vanilla, vanilla with mod NPCs, moderate to heavy hacking (like the infamous Bun-bun), or what?

Have fun!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:40 am

"Personally I disagree. All kinds of fighter/mages have a massive advantage over other fighting classes: defense!"

oh yeah...any fighter to mage dual is evil...kensai/mage is simply the most famous...but the berserker mage, with enrage ability is obscenely powerful defensively...simply cast chaotic commands on them, and they are absolutely immune to every disabling spells in the game, except timestop...liitiz is the king of kensai mage use, and he's mentioned that the berserker mage is even more powerful several times, i think....

"@User: I told you to use NI if you REALLY wanted to cheat! "

...you're right, but this is literally the first time ever that I've needed to use near infinity for a hack that shadowkeeper can't do...heck...I can do things with shadowkeeper that everyone else uses near infinity for...hehehheheh!!!!!!!!!!

valen is incredibly overpowering...but solafein is obscenely powerful when you get him the moonray ability...a mage fighter with almost as many spells as edwin, and a sunray like ability that instantly blinds enemies???!!!!!

eeeeeeeeekkkkkkkk!!!!!!

like nephtu said, its all about how YOU enjoy the game..whether hacking is the thing for you (like me), or strategy and tactics, like littiz and his kensai mage exploits, or simply roleplaying...between the editors and mods, and of course my cheese guide...

the options are endless...

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:53 pm

Originally posted by adventurerkilly
bers/cleric with crom faeyr/flail
kensai/thief, probably twohand-sword to use carsomyr once i acquire use any item
kensai/mage, probably dual katana, with cel fury
totemic druid/fighter with wave, if possible im not sure

I would have the Kensai/Thief dual wield katanas (or Celestial Fury main hand/Belm off hand -- the latter is a scimitar which adds an extra attack/round). The reason is that katanas can be used to backstab whereas Carsomyr never will. You can always throw an extra point or two in two-handed weapons later if you feel the need, but it will be awhile before you get the Use Any Item ability, and in the meantime, you don't want to waste the backstab ability.

As nephtu mentioned, you probably want your Kensai/Mage to have proficiency in quater staves. I would go with Grand Master in quarter stavesand 3*s in two-handed weapons, because I really like the Staff of the Magi and the elemental and golem slaying staves. There are, however, better weapons in terms of damage so this may overkill, but at least get specialization or mastery in quarter staves.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:04 pm

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
I<snip>
I would go with Grand Master in quarter stavesand 3*s in two-handed weapons, <snip>.

You can only have 2 profencies in 2-handed weapon

(only possible 3 of fighting style is two weapon fighting)

Personally - I like the Swashbuckler level 10/<something> dual class also. He makes for a good defensive character with his class specific AC bonus.
Plus you can make him a somewhat good meeler (not kensai style) so for mages and clerics that aren't neasecarily to stay in the front line - it is a possibility. Also because you can cover your thieving needs with such a one.
Plus then he can wear stuff on top, like armour if needed, bracers etc.

So he might not be as offensive as the kensai/something dual, but defensive he can rival.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:51 pm

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly

valen is incredibly overpowering...but solafein is obscenely powerful when you get him the moonray ability...a mage fighter with almost as many spells as edwin, and a sunray like ability that instantly blinds enemies???!!!!!

Moonray? When does he get that? I have Sola, and we're part way through ToB (Yaga-Shura, Watcher's Keep & the Ritual) but no Moonray ability. Is this a later on thing?

Balinor · Post by **Balinor** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:21 pm

Does Sola have his moonblade? I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Solaufein will either get his moonray ability or his moonblade item, depending on your game choices.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:32 pm

Originally posted by nephtu
Moonray? When does he get that? I have Sola, and we're part way through ToB (Yaga-Shura, Watcher's Keep & the Ritual) but no Moonray ability. Is this a later on thing?

did you do the revenge spiders??? you probably got the moonblade...by far the best sword in the game, highly powerful with many bonuses and powers...

(read the included readme file) you can carefully choose the right options in the dialog to get the moonray blessing by his goddess rather than the moonblade...

and if you are a dirty, stinking cheater like me, i always get the moonray, and clua console in the moonblade, so he seriously kicks butt...

unless you cheat, like me, you can only get one or the other...depends on whether someone wants him for a second mage, or a fighter...