Being Evil

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:04 pm

*SPOILERS*

Yo I have tried BG2 using different characters and alignments but I was wondering wether there was any reason to have an evil character?

Being evil certainly opens the door to have Viconia, Edwin, and Serevok in your party(allowing you the most powerful mage, cleric and fighter), but it is difficult to maintain a healthy game if you are striving to be evil.

Most of the quests and goals of the game lean towards giving you positive reputation, so it seems that having an evil character has way too many downsides. My favorite PC class is the ranger(muct be good alignment) so that clashes with the idea of being evil. I want to have viconia and edwin but I also want to be good.

I have been struggling with this decision for a while and I wanted to hear what you could tell me regarding your thoughts of the opposite allignments, and what kind of compramise leads the best outcome.

deevie · Post by **deevie** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:06 pm

Being Evil is just fun. Don't work to get something as a reward, just bash his head in and take it.

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:19 pm

Thats probably the best part about being evil and I agree, though after adoptong this philosophy I had a number of complaints from the neutral members of my team. It seems that if I have most of my party evil and add a couple neutrals to fill the empty slots, that still limits my ability to go killing everyone in sight, seeing as even the neutrals(Jan and Yoshi) complain if your rep goes below 4.

I suppose I can withstand the urge to kill and spare the lives of a few people to keep my rep high enough to keep the neutrals happy, but that still leaves the question of quest undertakings. There are no quests that I know of that are designed for evil people(besides maybe joining the vampires instead of the shadow thieves). Most of them involve rescuing a person or helping someone(good deeds). I can't really go saving damsels in distress if I am evil now can I?

P.S. I have never carried through on the joining of Boshi's vampires because the shadow mofos had way more to offer me. Has anyone done that quest string?

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:38 pm

SPOILERS

Well, I unfortunaltly cant tell you if Evil is so fun or cool or anything, I just have a question; did u play Evil before?? Or do u think you can roleplay it well enough??

I have tried it before, and I just plainly sucked at it (that and Im always an Archer

)...I cant seem to stay in the role of being evil for very long, simply because I dont like the game then..........maybe you would feel the same way??

I agree with the evil NPC's, that they can be fun and that they are very powerfull, but why dont you take 2 on ure way with a good character, so the "evilness" in your party isnt that present....
Further more I wanna point out that Viconia isnt that much of an evil character at a certain point, neither do I think Saravok is. Korgan and Edwin however, are 2 NPC's I cant judge very well about, since I never took them with me to long (a bitsy to evil for my playing style from what I experienced in the small time I did take them along....)

Hope this somehow helped....

Edit: Put the word:spoilers in you thread title by the way....else fable might get mad + u could ruin other peoples playing fun.....Ohh, and welcome to the Forum by the way

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:53 pm

Ya I think you hit the nail right on the head there about how I feel about playing evil characters(its interesting at first and the idea of evil power is ecstatic, but after a while you don't really like playing the role of evil anymore. Too hard to interact positively with people). I myself also LOVE the archer as a hero, and like playing as a good person. I suppose my real question was really "How can I relish the power that the evil characters provide if I don't like the downsides of being evil. The thought of taking viconia and edwin into the party as a good character came to mind, but I thought that they would complain if I was good and they were evil.

I am the kind of guy who likes to go all the way with something rather balance stuff so It felt a little strange to mix allignments like that. I will try to include the NPC's in question with my archer game then.

But going back to my p.s. question from before, if you join the vampires is the plot affected seriously(I have tried it for a bit, but it felt so wrong that I started over). I know it moves you to chapter 3 with a slightly different chapter transition movie thingy.

Edit: I going to be gone for a few hours so feel free to post all kinds of random answers, tips and garbage here until I get back.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:07 pm

spoilers

I havent tried it yet, so I cant really judge the Bodhi path...

Just do a search on this forum and you'll find alot of advantages and disadvantages....
(like killing both groups, better equipment on which side, killing Shadow Thieves instead of Vampires, bla bla)

The plot however, will be the same, you still have to kill both ure soulsnatchers...

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:43 pm

If your concern is roleplay, I suppose that it depends on if you want to just be evil or if you want to be psychotic. Evil in BG is mostly about acquiring power, becoming the proper heir to Bhall, etc. It can be thought of as problematic in that respect to just kill everyone and not be able to interact with anyone who can be used to help in your ascendency. And heck, you can still backstab Anomen to death without a loss of reputation.

From a game perspective, being evil shouldn't rule out too many quests since it can be reasoned that you're doing a lot of things for loot or revenge rather than good intentions. Party issues shouldn't be too problematic except the ranger class problem. The standard evil NPCs are all excellent though. And if you get the Valen mod, well, you get a lot of fun and won't really need much of a party anyway.

Idioteque · Post by **Idioteque** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:38 pm

SPOILERS

Apparently if you join Bodhi you have to kill more people but you get better loot than you do with shadow thieves. I've never done it myself as I haven't played an evil party yet.

I believe there is one purely evil quest. When you solve the bridge district murders you get a suit of human flesh which you can later have built to evil leather armor if you kill a good dragon.

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:51 pm

Thank you all,

I suppose I will try playing evil later when I am feeling ready for it, and for now I will try to get a good party using the evil NPC's.

Oh btw, if you are going to be evil, do you need to side with bodhi, because that makes it harder to get edwin in your party, seeing as he joins in the shadow thief area?
It would be interesting if you could join the shadow theives and then backstab them.

Also I don't know why none of you like Edwin. For the brief time I had him I loved his limitless power with spellcasting. I say he's overpowered if you ask me. I can't even make a PC that is better than him.

Cheers!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:00 pm

You can side with or against Bodhi. In fact, even Korgan is pretty uneasy about Bodhi.

If you're looking for a game that lets you adapt a truly anti-social attitude without running amuck, consider the Fallout series or Arcanum. You really can progress up (or down, as the case may be) an entire path of evil in those games.

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:26 pm

Yeah.....well....

I am kinda selective with my games, and only get them after a month or so of close inspection. In fact, one of the reasons I got BG was because of the many possibilities and story lines. I admired it for letting you set your own course rather than making you live a preset one. Other games have limited freedom and move you in one direction with no diversion. You can't decide to suddenly backstab a friend or back down on a quest.
The problem is that now that I have all this freedom I am having difficulty making the decisions for myself. Sometimes I wish the game had everything mapped out for me so that I could simply follow through with it. But those days are in the past....
It feels similar to becoming an adult: You can now make your own choices, but you also have to face the consequencees of your actions. Hee hee!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:01 pm

There seems to be a misconception that you have to be evil to side with Bodhi. But that's not the case, because Bodhi doesn't ask you to do anything more terrible than what the Shadow Thieves ask you to do. Check out our other discussions on that subject in these forums.

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:11 pm

Ya I know you don't HAVE to be evil, I was just wondering if it is better if you are...
Wether you are meant to take that path if you happen to be evil, or if you are not meant to take it if you are good.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:37 pm

Possible Spoilers:

I usually think of siding with Bodhi as the good path, since you get to wipe out both organizations that way. The only problem is that Mazzy and Keldorn don't seem to see it that way, but there are ways of getting around them.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:55 pm

If you want evil characters in your party and your a ranger no prob... just keep your rep below 19 and the evil characters wont leave, though they'll be unhappy.
If it gets to high turn into the <deleted> and drop 2 rep points per turning.
OR go to a house and kill a peasant, wait, you dont have to "Kill" them per see just whack them, though even a light tap normally manages to kill most peasants.
When your rep is less than popular (15) and is just average your evil party members wont complain.

SPOILER
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I dont think siding with Bodhi is the good path... Just cause... well, since shes dead and tries to kill you and all..

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:02 pm

Ok the problem of NPC's with different allignments has now been resolved.
Thank you for your advice.

This thread is now finished as far as I am concerned. So all you annoying spammers are now free to post here.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:04 pm

Originally posted by Oogly Mage
I am kinda selective with my games, and only get them after a month or so of close inspection. In fact, one of the reasons I got BG was because of the many possibilities and story lines. I admired it for letting you set your own course rather than making you live a preset one. Other games have limited freedom and move you in one direction with no diversion. You can't decide to suddenly backstab a friend or back down on a quest.

Actually, your preferences sound like they would apply to the Fallout series and Arcanum, too. At least in Arcanum and Fallout 2, you can pretty much travel anywhere and do anything, taking a purely good route, an evil one, or some mix of both while still progressing forward towards the game's conclusion. (Arcanum actually had an entire series of separate "evil" quests, involving things like stealing city plans and blowing up bridges.) The conclusion itself doesn't change, because it's ethos-neutral. I'm not saying these are the kinds of games you necessarily want, but they're worth considering.

Oogly Mage · Post by **Oogly Mage** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:12 pm

If you REALLY recomend it I will look into it...it is a single player RPG right?

I don't like those MMO games because my firewall prefs don't let me play them(and I am not in power to change them).

For now I got baldur's gate to fill the empty hours of my life

.

ANASTASIA · Post by **ANASTASIA** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:18 pm

my party is :me (swashbuckler ch.e.)
anomen (whom i turned ch.n.)
edwin (l.e.)
korgan (ch.e.)
jaheira(t.n.)
haerdalis(ch.n.)
and it keeks butt!!!!!!!believe me you can control your reputation,and if it gets to high,then just kill somebody.ha ha....

Galmar · Post by **Galmar** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:13 am

Rather then playing as evil, consider playing chaotic nuetral, it still puts you the evil side of the table, but it means you dont feel like you are breaking your alignment, CN basicly means you dont like the idea of alignments, usually nut cases, and the benefits of an all evil party mean there are some "interesting" npc interactions to say the least, allthough the game is considerably harder without the rep bonus's, there are some benefits...

Spoilers.....

1. Pissing off the cowled wizards, when they asked me to stop casting magic even when playing god i dont, i specifically cast it to annoy them till they attack me, then i wipe them out over and over, after a few times they send their top mages... killing these guys means they wont send anymore people to attack you, and you are free to cast magic within the city (like if you paid for a lisence). Not to mention they have a habbit of dropping some VERY nice scrolls (even level 9's). As a chaotic good character i saw this as a good thing anyway, since the cowled wizards were corrupt, and using magic was for the greator good anyway.

2. NPC interactions, edwin has some of the funniest moments in the game, specifically detailing to his side quests, same goes with the other evil characters, such as viccona and her romance.

3. A decent party, as you said the best mage / cleric / fighters are evil, korgan is an unrivaled tank, no one can match sarevok with the vorpal sword, viccona is the best cleric (and an interesting romance) and edwin is the single most powerfull mage in the game, if you add jan jansen to this mix you have a nice all round party, and being CN he is easier to keep in an evil party then a good (also haer'dalis is another option if you play as a theif, as he is a doombringer, and destruction is his game).

4. ToB variety, if you look in shadowkeeper certain spells are still there under initiate abilities, originally when the game was designed for each of the challanges in the pocket plane you were supposed to get another abillity / spell as a special ability, however this was removed due to the belief people would be overwhelmed with all the buttons (look at aeire with her HLA's and it can get a little confusing), anyways these are still in the game, but were disabled before shipping, anyway a small mod (if you can call it that) was made by a dude called david gaider, bioware's senior designer, you can read / download it http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_editors4.htm . theres a readme file inside the zip that tells you what they all do.

Theres no doubt playing as evil is a lot harder, what with store prices and all, as the game seems to punish you far too severely for having a low rep, but however there are a lot of nice dialog options and sidequests for the evil route, i highly reccomend playing evil at least once. (Or as i said, chaotic neutral).

Galmar ~ Spokesman of EFLAS "Evil For Life Alumni Society".