Vengeance and Forgiveness

[ObsidianReturns]

I've recently read The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal

For those of you who aren't familiar with his work, Mr. Wiesenthal is not so much an author as he is a nazi hunter. He is a holocaust survivor of great talent, and has dedicated his life to bringing Nazi's to justice.

The Sunflower is from Wiesenthal's life, where as a Jewish worker, he was brought to a dying Nazi soldier who wanted forgiveness for his crimes against the Jews. Wiesenthal neither granted nor denied this forgiveness.

Many essays have been written on whether or not forgiveness should have been denied or given freely.
What has me thinking, is that forgiveness cannot be given for something that is irreversable. You can return stolen merchandise, but not a life. Therefore, wouldn't forgiveness cheapen the deaths of others?

Vengeance is seen to brutalize while Forgivenss refines (Paraphrased from C. Ozick) and generally this is true. But in cases of murder, forgiveness would neither punish the criminal, and what would it give to the injured party? Nothing, because their dead and cannot grant it. To their family, forgiveness could seem like condoning the crime.

Therefore, could the only answer be that we must remember what has happened, and by not forgiving or forgetting, gain justice?

[fable]

As I see it, the fact that a criminal can truly ask for forgiveness--not hypocritically--is an indication that they deserve it, realizing as they do that whatever they did was done to human beings, and not to some demonized "Other." That being the case, they know they cannot procure forgiveness from the dead. When forgiveness is given to them, they have received all they can from the living. It is a mercy small enough, even when committed upon one's relatives, compared to the immensity of a crime whose existence a criminal has finally accepted.

I'm not saying this merely to apply to Holocaust survivors; gods know, there have been many genocides committed in the last half century alone, and a huge number of horrific crimes that are no smaller in culpability for being less in scale. But I think withholding mercy from someone at the point of death who obviously believes in their own guilt is itself pretty ghastly. Mind, this is *only* my feeling, and my current feeling. I cannot put myself in the place of someone who has lost a loved one to a killer, and is then asked by that killer for forgiveness. I would hope I could find it in myself to grant it, if the killer was obviously sincere; but I can't know, and with luck, I never will be put into such a position.

[Chanak]

There are several plots of high ground to inhabit regarding forgiveness, and what it really means. I think about the example given in the Christian New Testament concerning the man owing a tremendous sum of money to his King. The King cancelled the man's debt upon hearing his impassioned plea for mercy, releasing him from the burden of having to pay the money.

The story goes on to tell how this man, in turn, took an associate to court and had him jailed over a much lesser sum owed to him. The King, upon hearing of this, became incensed and had the man thrown into prison where he paid every last cent he owed to his King. I don't think forgiveness means forgetting anything...rather, it is a voluntary release of the burden of guilt upon an individual by a party (or society) affected by their actions. This in itself is a subjective issue at best, and is almost always obscured by emotions, such as anger. These things pass over time, like all emotions do, so therefore to me it has to have some lasting benefit beyond mere emotional gratification if it is granted, or denied. I agree with fable...in most cases, a person asking for forgiveness is deserving of it, and should be granted it. The very act of asking for it is a personalization that symbolizes an understanding of the ownership of guilt, which many hardened criminals never acknowledge, even as they rot in prisons for their crimes, or face a death sentence.

It is only when an individual proves that they are unable (or unwilling) to change their injurious behaviors that further forgiveness should be denied to them, I think.

In the case of Mr. Wiesenthal, being Jewish of course meant his concept of justice, debts, etc, was based upon the morals and precepts of Judaic law, which in it's purest form is very harsh and exacting. There was no forgiveness for those who violated the Law, only punishment. Once a year at the Temple the fortunate could pay the Levites to have their sins transferred from them to sacrificial animals. Other than that, criminals knew no forgiveness. A little background helps with this as I believe Mr. Wiesenthal was not able to forgive the dying Nazi because, to him, the Nazi's guilt was a tangible thing that was an affront to his God, and his people. His value system applied a concrete value to that.

Personally, I do not believe that forgiveness lessens anything at all. It is a gift given out of compassion, and the ability to detach one's self from the heat of the moment. I can't imagine what is possibly gained by the punishment of a person, apart from emotional gratification on the part of parties affected by that person's actions. That's really the only thing gained by the punishment of a person...for as we have seen, in the case of law and criminal behavior, punishment does little to deter crimes. The reinstatement of captial punishment in the United States has not reduced the instances of captial crimes at all. If anything, they have escalated even more since the Supreme Court made that decision.

[ObsidianReturns]

Good post chanak, glad to have you back.

How would you see the statement that forgiveness is pitiless for it forgets the victim and that only vengeance knows pity for the victim? (Ozick)

Money is something that can be returned, jail time can be pardoned and ended. Forgiveness is possible in both events because the injured party still exists to recieve that forgiveness.

Murder however, they no longer live to accept forgiveness. They are gone forever. God cannot forgive them, despite his infinite mercy, because the wrong was not done to Him.

[frogus]

I very much agree with Chanak, forgiveness is an act of compassionate control and detachment, which it is noble to give when it is asked for...

But what is the value of forgiveness?

One can say 'I forgive you', but even saying this means 'I blame you' too. If the party were not to blame there would be no need for forgiveness, and if they are to blame, what can the word 'forgive' mean?