Attacks Per Round

Archeron · Post by **Archeron** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:07 am

Ok, looking to clarify this subject a bit and come up with the most effective ways to maximise the benefits.

Please: Correct me at all times and add suggestions and tips.

Attacks per Round (APR): How many times a character attacks in one round

(six seconds). I therefore think this is one of the most underrated stats to focus on and am looking to maximise it.

I would like to work out how much THAC0 is worth sacraficing for a better APR. Say, going from a +3 weapon to a +2 weapon with a +1 APR.

And all the items and ways or increasing APR

And also the effect of a low speed factor in all this

Answers and suggestions much appreciated

Cheers

Archeron · Post by **Archeron** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:26 am

Ok
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Scimitar of Speed +2: Belm
This enchanted scimitar bears the mark of Taka Kobe, an honored swordsmith of Kara-Tur, though how it came to be here is unknown. Perfectly balanced, it affords quick recovery in combat and even allows the wielder time for an additional attack.

STATISTICS:

Combat Abilities: sets attacks to +1 per round
THAC0: +2 bonus
Damage: 1D8 + 2
Damage type: slashing
Weight: 3
Speed Factor: 0
Proficiency Type: Scimitar/Wakizashi/Ninja-To
Type: 1-handed
Requires: 10 Strength
Not Usable By:
Cleric
Mage
Beast Master
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Ninja-To of the Scarlet Brotherhood
When a member of the Scarlet Brotherhood kills one of that organization's 'great enemies', they are often rewarded with this sword. How this sword made its way from the world of Greyhawk (where the Brotherhood is based) to Faerun is a mystery. When unsheathed the ninja-to will glow blood red.

STATISTICS

Equipped Ability: one extra attack per round
Combat Ability: Poison damage of 6 hit-points per round, for two rounds, if target fails a saving throw versus poison
THAC0: +3 bonus
Damage: 1D8 +3
Damage type: slashing
Weight: 2
Speed Factor: 1
Proficiency Type: Scimitar/Wakizashi/Ninja-To
Type: 1-handed
Requires: 6 Strength
Usable By:
Monks
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Light Crossbow of Speed: 'The Army Scythe'

A short-lived outpost of humans in the Frozen Forest unearthed this weapon, and many others, from the ruins of an ancient settlement deep within that cold land. Never knowing the names of their extinct benefactors, the colonists used these "tools" to carve a large territory for themselves, though in the end it was for naught. Crushed by a superior number of Hobgoblins, these unfortunate souls have joined the ancients in their anonymity.

STATISTICS:

THAC0: +1 bonus
Damage: +1 (missile)
Special: 1 extra attack per round
Weight: 5
Speed Factor: 3
Proficiency Type: Crossbow
Type: 2-handed
Requires: 8 Strength
Not Usable By:
Druid
Cleric
Mage
Monk
Kensai
Cavalier
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Drow Crossbow of Speed
A crossbow is a bow mounted crosswise on a wooden or metal shaft, the latter called a tiller. The bow is usually made of ash or yew. The crossbow fires a quarrel (also called a bolt).
This item, like most drow equipment, is created using Adamantine, an alloy of adamantite that quickly turns to dust if removed from the Underdark.

STATISTICS:

THAC0: +3 bonus
Damage: +3 (missile)
Special: 1 extra attack per round
Weight: 5
Speed Factor: 1
Proficiency Type: Crossbow
Type: 2-handed
Not Usable By:
Druid
Cleric
Mage
Thief
Cavalier
Kensai
Monk
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These rarest of gauntlets are highly sought after by duelists, warriors, and fighters of all kinds.

STATISTICS:
Adds one extra 1/2 attack/round
THAC0: +1 bonus
Damage: +2 bonus
Weight: 1

Usable By:
Fighters
Paladins
Rangers

Any more?
Items?

"No matter what, you can never have more than 5 attacks per round. That is set in stone. The second attack from your "shield" hand can only ever count as 1 attack per round."

Ignoring haste etc...

Does this mean that you will only attack once from your off-hand in any round no matter what APR you have?

arrrrrrrrrrgh..

Archeron · Post by **Archeron** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:30 am

Sorry for post whoring...

"that whats i'm not sure about- say if you have 3 APR- does that mean you attack once every two seconds? I think so? but weapon speed is then divided up in that two seconds (as ws is from 0-10) to determine when the attack is made in that two seconds (0- straight away- 10, after two seconds)"

Thoughts...

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:46 am

Short sword KUNDANE grant and extra APR, even if is not stated in the description.

Short bow Tuigan actualy raise by one your APR: you get 3 instead of the typical 2 of a bow.

Boots of speed and also the Grandmaster armour (not sure about the latter) grant you an extra half APR.

But, IMO, APR in ToB loses part of its importance due to the Greater Wirlwind attack that sets your APR to 10.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:16 am

Couple of things to keep in mind...

Bonus attacks are always made by the main hand (usually a good thing).
Unpatched Boots of Speed give you a nerfed Haste, but the Boots from the Baldurdash fixes just give you increased movement.
Your avatar will always make at least three or so swings per round. If your character has less than three attacks, some of those swings will just be visual animation, but no real attacks. To know which attacks are real, you have to turn on the hit roll feedback.
Several bugs or glitches have been reported where higher attack rates would not give you the exact number of attacks listed (usually less).

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:06 pm

another thing to remember is that at higher APR ratios weapon speed tends to become less of a factor, as all the attacks have to be fitted in the 6 seconds period.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:47 pm

Speed Factor is almost never a consideration. It only determines who gets first-strike capability, so it useful for spell disruption, but Magic Missile spells are more reliable (because they always hit) and almost anyone can use a wand of MM.

I like the Celestial Fury/Belm combination because in the long run damage is more important than THAC0. The only exception to this is when a certain monster can only be hit by +4 or greater weapons. But even then, having Belm in the off-hand increases the number of attacks in the main hand, so having it is a wash.

These comments are even more appropos of the +3 Scarlet Ninja-To, but I never looked closely enough at that (expensive) weapon to notice the extra attack. But since only Monks (and Rogues with UAI) can use it, I don't feel particularly deprived.

Archeron · Post by **Archeron** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:32 pm

Also related to this thread is the definition of 'To Hit', can someone provide that please (is it just THAC0?)

How do you turn on hit roll feedback?

Does a shapechanged Cernd with Belm in offhand gain the extra attack?

And can someone post the weapon proficiency affects please (or link)

Cheers

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:13 am

Originally posted by Xyx
[*]Unpatched Boots of Speed give you a nerfed Haste, but the Boots from the Baldurdash fixes just give you increased movement.
.[/list] [/b]

I read that the pack fixes something with boots of speed but it is not clear in the description: can you explain more clearly what the fix "fixes" please? Also It seems to me that the extra 1/2 APR still remain (but have to check with an old save).

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:37 am

I checked out the files a few days back and if I'm not mistaken it goes like this:

Normal Boots of Speed: Add Haste, add Haste portrait icon, take away bonus attack.
Baldurdash Boots of Speed: Add movement rate increase, add portrait icon.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:05 am

Originally posted by Xyx
I checked out the files a few days back and if I'm not mistaken it goes like this:
Normal Boots of Speed: Add Haste, add Haste portrait icon, take away bonus attack.

Baldurdash Boots of Speed: Add movement rate increase, add portrait icon.

If I understand correctly your post, it means that also the normal B.o.S don't add the 1/2 APR (haste would add 1 APR)?
But I'm sure that in the char. info when you wear the boots it adds the 1/2 APR, at least in the pre-fix games.
I'ven't checked since a while (took for granted the effect), but next time I'll play I will check it.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:19 pm

I believe that's why they were fixed... they were buggy with regards to your APR, especially when you had a half attack in there somewhere.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:30 pm

Originally posted by lompo
Short sword KUNDANE grant and extra APR, even if is not stated in the description.

Short bow Tuigan actualy raise by one your APR: you get 3 instead of the typical 2 of a bow.

Boots of speed and also the Grandmaster armour (not sure about the latter) grant you an extra half APR.

But, IMO, APR in ToB loses part of its importance due to the Greater Wirlwind attack that sets your APR to 10.

two things...

using dual wield and weapons of speed gives you around 7-10 attacks per round...bruce i think noted that with the right equipment a high level dual wielding grandmastery fighter can in fact get 9-10 attacks per round with improved haste...which is BETTER than g whirlwind because it lasts a lot longer than a single round...

also, be careful using g whirlwind and a apr weapon...someone noted that if you activate g whirlwind while equipped with kundane or others, you might encounter the bug where your attacks per round drops to 1...since you can only have 10 attacks per round, enforced by the game engine, activating g whirlwind rolls your attacks per round to 1....

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:29 am

@ archeron:

THAC0 means "to hit AC 0", so any bonus to thac0 is naturally a bonus to hit.

to turn on the "to hit rolls" feedback, go into options->feedback and check it to "on"

shapechanged cernd will probably get an extra attack, yes. not 100% sure, though

proficiency affects (real):

* +0 to hit, +0 damage,
** +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1/2 attack (only for warriors)
*** +2 to hit, +2 damage, +1/2 attack
**** +2 to hit, +3 damage, +1/2 attack, +1 weapon speed
***** +2 to hit, +4 damage, +1/2 attack, +1 weapon speed

FilipeTeles · Post by **FilipeTeles** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:09 pm

my 2 archer have 5 attacks per round with gensen bow and if i use imrpoved haste from the ring of gaax i have 9 attacks per round!