A poll about you beliefs

corsair · Post by **corsair** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:10 pm

In lue of the discussion me and Fable are having, I would like to take a poll of the beliefs of the members of this forum. You dont if have to participate if you didnt want to. Oh, and if I left your belief out, tell me pls.

Edit: If any moderators read this, could you edit the poll and add Mormon to it for me, sry i forgot.

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:15 pm

Originally posted by corsair

Edit: If any moderators read this, could you edit the poll and add Mormon to it for me, sry i forgot.

That isn't necessary..Mormons are Christians too

Also, you indicate that by this pole to believe one, you must not believe any other..I think that may not apply to many people. I know it doesn't apply to me

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:16 pm

I am a scientific atheist. That means, I do not believe in any gods, any transcendence, any religion - I do not totally deny the possibility of such things existing, but I will not start believing any of it until I see evidence that meet the same requirements as any other phenomena or object must do in order for me to believe it exists, ie it must be possible to demonstrate scientifically.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Hmmm... I wasn't sure which one to select, but I ended up hitting "Agnostic." In reality I am an Agnostic with leanings towards Pagan and Budhist beliefs... If that makes any sense...

Though I also celebrate Christmas in the relatively secular sense, despite listening to carols....

Guess I'm either hedging my bets or indecisive

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:31 pm

Im atheist, but I would not call it a belief, more like a lack of it.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:32 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench
Hmmm... I wasn't sure which one to select, but I ended up hitting "Agnostic." In reality I am an Agnostic with leanings towards Pagan and Budhist beliefs... If that makes any sense...

The core difference between "agnostic" and "atheist" or "generally not sure", is that a true agnostic believe the question cannot be answered, ie there is no way for humans to know whether gods exist or not.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:35 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
The core difference between "agnostic" and "atheist" or "generally not sure", is that a true agnostic believe the question cannot be answered, ie there is no way for humans to know whether gods exist or not.

In that case, I guess the Agnostic label works quite well then

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:53 pm

I'm Secular Humanist, which is a branch of Atheism that believes in the tenants of most religions, but not in the spiritual aspect of them.

@Scayde: You can be receptive to many religions and faiths (or lack thereof), but generally someone does not believe in more in than one, as that would imply following that faith with some sense of consistency.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:37 am

Christian - to the extent that I believe in a force somewhat akin to a God who guides your hand and helps you along the path of life. I don't subscribe to the bible as such, I still think it is a fantastic story and many good lessons may be taught from it.

My belief in "God" (the only word I can really use for the deity, we don't have a lot of options otherwise that explain its true meaning) is personal, I pray and believe that He is someone who will hear me and even though He doesn't take an active role in my life, He still influences me for good.

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:31 am

Originally posted by Aegis
@Scayde: You can be receptive to many religions and faiths (or lack thereof), but generally someone does not believe in more in than one, as that would imply following that faith with some sense of consistency.

That would be the difference in one who finds concepts in which they hold to be true, and one who puts their faith in dogma

corsair · Post by **corsair** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:25 pm

This is a question for the athiest- Let's say you know 1% of everything the universe has to offer, isnt it possible that because you dont know the other 99% that there could be a God? If you answered yes, then you are truly an agnostic. Its just something I wanted to point out.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:42 pm

Originally posted by corsair
This is a question for the athiest- Let's say you know 1% of everything the universe has to offer, isnt it possible that because you dont know the other 99% that there could be a God? If you answered yes, then you are truly an agnostic. Its just something I wanted to point out.

Interesting point. Not to steer the discussion too far off track but your comment reminds me a bit of the debate surrounding the possible existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. IMO, considering that astrophysicists have only actually charted a very small segment of the universe, it is arrogant in the extreme to baldy claim that intelligent life only exists on earth.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:42 pm

Am rather torn between agnoistic and atheisme.

I have a hard time reasoning with myself that there is God(s) around or even could have been.

But I am also a logical thinking human being, and as such I reason that we don't know enough, and likely never will, about our surrondings to determine that fact.

My "reasoning" is that if there indeed is some higher beings in the works - it will be imposible for us to determine if they/he/she is indeed a diety or "simply" a being on another plane of existance or consciousness. Especially if you into the faction counts theories about multi-vers or/and dimensions.

(Much like the "locker-scenes" in the Men in Black movies

)

CM · Post by CM » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:06 pm

I am just wondering who the other muslim is?

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:18 pm

Well, I was torn between agnostic and wiccan/pagan, since I usually describe myself as an eclectic pagan agnostic.

However, I wouldn't really describe myself as practising any belief, and I don't believe that God/gods exist outside of the human mind, although I don't think it is possible to prove that one way or another.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:47 am

Re: Re: A poll about you beliefs

Originally posted by Scayde
That isn't necessary..Mormons are Christians too

I'm not sure I agree with that. Catholics and Protestants may disagree on a number of points, but they all work from the same Bible. Mormons have added a bunch of stuff (The Book of Mormon) that Christians don't believe. They're an offshoot of Christianity, but IMHO too different to be the same religion.

There's nothing wrong with being a Mormon (though I do have issues with it's founder), but to me saying Mormons are Christians is like saying Christians still follow Judaism, since Christianity was originally a Jewish Messianic cult. Give Mormons their own slot on this poll.

Originally posted by C Elegans
I am a scientific atheist. That means, I do not believe in any gods, any transcendence, any religion - I do not totally deny the possibility of such things existing, but I will not start believing any of it until I see evidence that meet the same requirements as any other phenomena or object must do in order for me to believe it exists, ie it must be possible to demonstrate scientifically.

"That's the thing about faith. If you don't have it you can't understand it, and if you do have it, no explanation is necessary." - Kira, Star Trek Deep Space Nine

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:52 am

But the Mormons themselves hold the basic tennants of their faith to be derived from the same Bible as do the Catholics and Protestants. the Catholic Bible also contains books not recognized in the Protestant Bible...and the Mormons do recognize the validity of the Dead Sea scrolls and the tablets of Kumran which predate and are often more unaltered than those found in the King James Version.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:04 am

Originally posted by Scayde
But the Mormons themselves hold the basic tennants of their faith to be derived from the same Bible as do the Catholics and Protestants. the Catholic Bible also contains books not recognized in the Protestant Bible...and the Mormons do recognize the validity of the Dead Sea scrolls and the tablets of Kumran which predate and are often more unaltered than those found in the King James Version.

Personal opinion, I guess. I just find Catholic beliefs to be close enough to my own (Protestant beliefs) to consider us all part of the same group, while Mormons are bit too far out there for my tastes. Listing Mormons as Christians puts all in the same group, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with that. Again, there’s nothing wrong with being a Mormon, but if someone said Buddhists and Christians were one group I’d object to that too (since it implies that I believe something I don’t).

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:03 am

Originally posted by Kayless
Listing Mormons as Christians puts all in the same group, and I'm a bit uncomfortable with that. Again, there’s nothing wrong with being a Mormon, but if someone said Buddhists and Christians were one group I’d object to that too (since it implies that I believe something I don’t).

The analogy doesn't quite fit. Buddhists and Christians don't have a belief system or a dogma in common. Mormons and Christians do, just as both groups do with Islam and Judaism. They're all monotheistic faiths that are rooted in the biblical OT. While Judaism claims this represents the final written revelation, Christians say it's expanded into the NT, and the Jesus was the final prophet, and also god. Islam and Mormon claim that Jesus was a very high type of prophet, but that the last prophet was Muhammed or Brigham Young, respectively, and that the final divine revelation continued on from the OT and the NT, into the Quran (Islam) or the Book of Mormon.

These religions form a family group, as it were. Buddhism, by contrast, is in part a way of transcending the planes of existence, which are illusions created by hatred, anger and desire. These planes include all humans, gods, and demons. Very different kind of stuff than anything monotheistic or polytheistic.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:59 am

Originally posted by corsair
This is a question for the athiest- Let's say you know 1% of everything the universe has to offer, isnt it possible that because you dont know the other 99% that there could be a God? If you answered yes, then you are truly an agnostic. Its just something I wanted to point out.

By the same reasoning it is equally possible that Santa Claus, pink unicorns and a million other gods than yours exist in unknown dimensions and aspect that human knowledge does not yet fathom.
Your statement above is not related to religion since anything that we have not observed could theoretically exist elsewhere. But things do not become true because nobody knows - neither your god nor the pink unicorn become more objectivly real because nobody knows if they are "out there somewhere in the universe".

Btw, this is not how agnosticism is usually defined.

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