Opinions Please

davfra · Post by **davfra** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:17 pm

I`m near the end of BG2 and have bought Neverwinter Nights.
I`ve been reading about the game on this site and it doesn`t seem as interesting as BG2. I don`t like the idea of only having one permanent memer of the team.
I was wondering what you guys who`ve played to two games think of that.
I`ve enjoyed BG2 so much, more on this, my second time round, than previously. I`ve been searching round for TOB, but it`s difficult to come by here in England. I believe there are some mods out there to extend the game so maybe I should start looking.
Maybe it`s just the blues you get when you near the end of a brilliant game.
Cheers

trollkarlsgubbe · Post by **trollkarlsgubbe** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:43 pm

Well, I share your predicament. I beated BG2 about 2-3 weeks ago and ended up beeing quite depressed over the fact that it was over. Well at least untill I can get my hands on ToB. I've tried Neverwinter but it just ain't fun without some loyal servants, altough the point in neverwinter is to play online with other people.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:27 pm

I played NWN once and I must say BGII is a lot better, that's my personal opinion though

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:17 pm

Unless you're really into online gaming, BG2 is a hugely superior game.

Note that you can also play BG2 online with friends. It's a bit klunky at times since the game was not really designed for it, but it's great! Makes a fun game even more fun.

If you only finished BG2 once, rather than running out and buying NWN, you could try again with a totally different character choice. And get some friends into it, of course.

If you're not much for online play, NWN is a real turn-off. If you haven't played them already, you're probably better off going for Icewind Dale (or any of its sequels) or Planescape: Torment. These all closely resemble BG2 (though they're a bit older, with the exception of Icewind Dale 2).

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:33 am

Yeah, there's lots of stuff I've come across second time around which I didn't know about (esp character-specific quests)

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:52 am

Originally posted by davfra
I`m near the end of BG2 and have bought Neverwinter Nights.
I`ve been reading about the game on this site and it doesn`t seem as interesting as BG2. I don`t like the idea of only having one permanent memer of the team.
I was wondering what you guys who`ve played to two games think of that.
I`ve enjoyed BG2 so much, more on this, my second time round, than previously. I`ve been searching round for TOB, but it`s difficult to come by here in England. I believe there are some mods out there to extend the game so maybe I should start looking.
Maybe it`s just the blues you get when you near the end of a brilliant game.
Cheers

Neverwinter Nights (&SOU) is an okay game but nowhere near as involved as BGII. The main strength of NWN is the editor so if you fancy ago at being a game maker then NWN is a good place to start. Personally I wouldn't have bought it if I'd have known that it was like it is. It does have a string of good points but unfortunately the plot and depth of the game is a bit lacklustered. The limitations of playing a single main character is apparently obvious all the way through the game but it really doesn't make much of a difference which class you play although be sure to be able to open locks either by spell 'knock', lockpicking or just a reasonable hitter.

As for getting hold of TOB in England-I ordered it off Amazon, much easier and cheaper than trawling the highstreets for it.

TOB is not as good as SOA so I would think before buying it, again I may not have bought it as it's a bit short and linear.

BG and SOA (BGII) are both excellent games in my opinion and it is a shame(?) that even after a couple of hundred or more hours game play it just leaves you wanting more, more, more. It's a pity that they didn't make a BG3 with the infinity engine, even though it is a bit dated now, the games were very well written (except perhaps IWD could have been better). Maybe Santa Claus will appeal to Black Isle and Bioware to combine the graphics and load times of Dungeon Siege, with the plot depth and scripting of BGII and the interface of NWN using the SPECIAL system from Fallout. Not much to ask is it?... oh BI already tried that with Lionheart; maybe we shouldn't ask incase we get another half finished, untested game.

Oh and yes there are many, many, many mods for NWN at the Bioware website.

Have fun!

davfra · Post by **davfra** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:56 am

I managed to get TOB in the end. I also bought Neverwinter Nights which was a great big let down. Fortunately, I bought it from Game who allow you 16 days to try or return and it`s certainly return in this case.
Cheers

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:42 am

If you enjoyed the depth of SoA, definitely try to get a copy of PS:T. Though be aware, it is even more dialogue-oriented than SoA, and often quite philosophical. So if you are more into hack and slash, it may not appeal to you.

The IWD series is at the opposite end of the spectrum. There is a lot of emphasis on fighting and strategy. I have really enjoyed these games as well. Unlike NWN, the battles can often take quite a lot of planning (especially in Heart of Fury mode), the storylines are interesting, and the music is surprisingly good. Plus, you get to create and manage six characters, which is a lot of fun

IMHO, both of the above games far exceed NWN in every way

Olmer · Post by **Olmer** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:10 pm

BG2 is far more enjoying game than NWN mainly because the best NPCs ever created in CRPG. I don't know any CRPG with dialogues with your party.
NWN's greatest disadvantages is that you actually haven't got any *living* party - familiar, mercenary and summoned monster... terrible. It's pity, that items are randomly selected so it's ordinary that you are destroying seventh chest and you find 3 gp

Coconut_Crab · Post by **Coconut_Crab** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

Hi, what do you guys think about Morrowind then? I've heard it's better than Never Windter Nights, but I don't know if it's as enjoyable as BG2.

I haven't bought morrowind because it's system requirement is too high for my computer.

Should I buy it after I upgrade my PC?

Coco

Olmer · Post by **Olmer** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:44 pm

Well, all I can say about it is that Morrowind is VERY BORING GAME!!! At the beginning it's OK - there is a big, opened world for you to explore, many cities, dungeons etc. Other upseting thing you can fix by dowloading mods (no merchants, who could buy expensive things for example), but you won't fix one thing. Unfortunately, when you are at about 25 level, there is nothing left for you to do - you can kill everyone with one blow etc. Maybe Tribunal and Bloodmoon are more interesting, I don't know but original Morrowind is game for... maybe month and I expected something more from it...

davfra · Post by **davfra** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 4:01 pm

I sent Neverwinter Nights back to the shop. I`m now playing BG2 and TOB.
I have played both versions of Icewind Dale and I shall play them again in the future.
BG2 is unbeatable as far as I`m concerned. I`ve just picked up Korgan for the first time and I haven`t stopped laughing at his comments since he joined me.
The inter-action between NPC`s is great and I`ve now tried the romances (Jaheira and Aerie so far). So much to do and so much interest.
It would be fantastic if they did a third version.
Cheers

pictohomus · Post by **pictohomus** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:30 am

Interesting....Catsup

Indeed, my friend let me 'have' his NWN game and frankly after playing almost all the way through, i am disappointed. Near the end, with the dragons(hope i didnt spoil it , oh my) lol....i got frustrated and restarted my character back at beginning so everything is ridiculously easy, as if it wasnt in the first place. I might have died the whole time maybe 10 times. In comparison to BGII, a speck of dust. And also frankly its mother was definately a hamster and its nonexistent father smelt of elderberries. As you all have referred to in one way or another, the depth and creativity exhibited in BGII is astounding, and although i have not finished it, yea not even have I explored the Underdark, it is a great game and i hope they make a third. Unfortunately i havent picked up Icewind Dale, although have played, enjoyed very much. It is what started me off on these games. Then i got Baldurs gate. What fascination. I also like how one can control all the people at once, not to mention the view is better. I would chance one thing about BG games series. The view ought to be able to toggle around. Sometimes i would like to see around certain things and see from a different view, or to swing down. Perhaps that is later. THe detail and texture is lovely as well. All in all i am very pleased with the game. I find no flaws. Had a small question as well: Is TOB an addition to SOA or is it merely another adventure you import your character to? thats all, Cheers mates!

Galmar · Post by **Galmar** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:45 am

NwN does pretty much suck, the only reason i actually bought it was because of the "you will be able to import your character into NwN" messages in game, the thought of my time stopping improved alactricity casting badass mage being able to have a challnage once more was irresistable... unfortunatly it turned out to be a linear piece of crap with all the charm and appeal of aerie.

As for other games, IwD is pretty crappy too actually, its set back before the BG series, and has very little in the way of a storyline or choices you can make, its basicly just a dungeon crawler. If you allready own it or can get it real cheap its a nice way to practice some combat tactics, as the fights there are WAY harder then anything in SoA. But sadly if you want more then combat you'll be very dissapointed by it.

As for Ps:T, thats just hugely messed up =), it kinda reminded me a little of the old SNES game earthbound, hyped up for being entertaining, but i just found it giving me a headache. Still, i guess i coulda puta little more into it. If haer'dalis is you're kinda guy though you'll probably like it.

If anything i recommend going back to BG1 and its addon Tales of the sword coast, course the story is spoiled a little for you now if you played BG2 first, and youll have some bad habbits (using the TAB key on every area (you cant do that in bg1)). I heard that BG TuTu is supposed to make bg1 run under the bg2 engine, never checked it out, but if its bug free it would be very nice.

Really though the BG series is unrivaled, its a real shame interplay ruined it by making that piece of crap "Dark alliance", making the game more of a diablo clone for console owners, and firmly making the game seem total crap for anyone who played dark alliance before its prequals.

(You would have thought interplay would learn, they did the same with the fallout series)

UncleScratchy · Post by **UncleScratchy** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:03 am

Originally posted by davfra
I`m near the end of BG2 and have bought Neverwinter Nights.
I`ve been reading about the game on this site and it doesn`t seem as interesting as BG2. I don`t like the idea of only having one permanent memer of the team.
I was wondering what you guys who`ve played to two games think of that...

I have to agree with just about everything said here so far. NwN was a disappointment. I became disenchanted with it after a couple of hours of play and have never gone back to it. MW is both boring and addictive. It is like playing solitaire. Its only really fun at the start when you are building up your char but after that its all the same. I've only played Tribunal all the way thru once as I find it to boring to do again. I will not be buying Bloodmoon. MW biggest fault is that it doesn't really matter what char you make as they can all end up with pretty much the same stats. Unlike BG2 where the main attribute stats, hps, etc. are capped depending on the race and class of char you make. IWD is okay but a bit clunky with lousy AI and the expansion to it was a let down. PlaneScape-Torment is a unique game and a lot of fun but no where near the same as BG2. Its definitely a classic RPG and well worth playing.

Sounds like you may be missing out on perhaps the greatest challenger to BG2 and a game I think may even be better - IMO that would be BG1 with ToTSC expansion. Its even less linear than BG2, doesn't have all the cheesy weapons and armors, etc. and has some of the toughest monsters you'll ever face with respect to your party level, available spells and equipment. I would suggest giving BG1 a try. Then you can import your BG1 char into BG2 and restart that saga.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:26 am

I considered NWN a monumental let-down when it was first released, but now (after some twenty patches) I have to admit it turned out to be what it promised. It still sucks for single player, but it's a decent multiplayer game.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:33 pm

Hmmm...

A couple of games that spring to mind for further play (beyond endless reply of variants & MODs of SoA+ToB) are:

Knights of the Old Republic - also a Bioware title, strong party interaction, but a Star Wars setting, play a party of Jedi.

Temple of Elemental Evil - Troika, old style, fully turn based D&D based on a classic PnP module.

Just suggestions, most of my gametime is online, which, as many have pointed out, is a whole different ball of wax, and not for everyone.

Cheers!

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:26 pm

You should defintely try Knights of the Old Republic. It has lots of quests, interesting characters and provided you have a good comp looks really great

It has a bit less replaying value than BGII though because your character choice is a lot more limited (there are fewer classes, only 3 starting classes and 3 Jedi classes which you acquire later on).

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:20 am

Before I played it I was very excited about NWN. When I got, it was somewhat a disillusion though. The storyline is very weak compared to the standards set by the BG series and developing a single character is frustrating sometimes, because you miss all the strategic opportunities and the brilliant NPC conversation you got used to in BG2.

NWN is not a bad game, but it's rather a sophisticated game engine that's delivered with a mediocre adventure setting than a fully fledged out-of-the-box top level game.

My advice would be to get ToB (try eBay for example), install SoA with ToB and start over again. You will have access to the ToB features and a major dungeon (Watcher's Keep) in the SoA part already, which gives an even better gaming experience than pure SoA. Develop a different party than your first one and I'm pretty much certain you'll have more fun than with NWN.

Btw, if you're loking for a game that matches BG2 in terms of complexity and love for small details, if you like reading a lot and if you are are willing to compromise concerning the game graphics (BG1 style), try to get a copy of Planescape: Torment. This game is completely marvelous and if you think that BG2 NPCs were insane ... well, surprise, surprise.

Mr Vegas · Post by **Mr Vegas** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:19 am

useless information

buying bg2 soa as the first rpg for computer was the worst possible mistake i could have made... it sets the bar too high and you start to nitpick at all the other rpgs because they are missing what the bg series has. nvn isnt a bad game as people have posted, it is just less detailed... i played it for the fun of it and i didnt think of it as bad, but it just cannot compare to bg