Is it just me..............
I always choose to roleplay that my characters don't like getting killed, so they always equip the best armor they can get their grubby little hands on.I choose to roleplay that maybe the character doesn't want the new item.....for instance I play that Jaheira prefers leather armors, even if she can equip a much more powerful plate armor....leather is more natural for her.
No offense meant, though. Each his own. I also dislike power gaming. If I'd want power gaming, I'd play Diablo all day. However, the game's allowance for power gaming always gets the best of my feeble morals.
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Kyle Marksteiner
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I've always thought gaming was more fun when magic stuff is rationed out very slowly. In the PnP game I'm playing, we've only gotten 2 magic items so far...and boy was it a big deal when we did! Magic equipment should be rare, IMO, otherwise it's no longer magic.
"Those are brave men out there, let's go kill them"
True, that.Magic equipment should be rare, IMO, otherwise it's no longer magic.
"Let's see, what do we have here? Oh, another Longsword +1... Into the Bag of Holding it goes."
Sounds familiar? Substitute Longsword +4 for ToB...
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Masteraleph
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fable
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There does seem to be a kind of Monty Haul at work in the magic items in BG2. They're all over the place, conveniently left by your enemies, or just plain poorly guarded. ("Let's see: that's a +4 Chainmail with poison resistance, right? And the boss said it protect it, right? Okay, let's put this squirrel here in charge of keeping an eye on the stuff, and go mug a few Elves.")
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
The original BG was in the D&D 2e 'comfort zone', where it actually worked for the most part. Beyond level 10, 2e becomes notoriously unbalanced, rogues and priests are feeble, and mages (and high level spells) are ludicrously overpowered.
In order to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, Bioware were pretty much on their own. Bear in mind that BG became a 'franchise', and the sequel was directed at the mainstream (ie Diablow fanboys).
BG2 is for munchkins. It's built for them, tuned for them, and if your characters aren't munchkins, then you'll suck. Drizzt took a lifetime of adventuring to make it into his teens as a ranger. Our crew can do it in a few weeks. BG2 is just another cheesy consolish kill/loot/level hack and slash - just Diablo 2 with a party. Every major 'quest' in the game involves nothing more than clearing yet another dungeon.
The game really should not have continued on from the previous one - imo it should have started at level one again.
Incidently, Defender +5 is a +3 weapon - the +5 repesents the +3 thaco and 2ac. The only +5 D&D weapon that I've ever heard of was the Holy Avenger. The Holy Avenger would go into the bag of holding in ToB - it just wouldn't cut it.
In order to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, Bioware were pretty much on their own. Bear in mind that BG became a 'franchise', and the sequel was directed at the mainstream (ie Diablow fanboys).
BG2 is for munchkins. It's built for them, tuned for them, and if your characters aren't munchkins, then you'll suck. Drizzt took a lifetime of adventuring to make it into his teens as a ranger. Our crew can do it in a few weeks. BG2 is just another cheesy consolish kill/loot/level hack and slash - just Diablo 2 with a party. Every major 'quest' in the game involves nothing more than clearing yet another dungeon.
The game really should not have continued on from the previous one - imo it should have started at level one again.
Incidently, Defender +5 is a +3 weapon - the +5 repesents the +3 thaco and 2ac. The only +5 D&D weapon that I've ever heard of was the Holy Avenger. The Holy Avenger would go into the bag of holding in ToB - it just wouldn't cut it.
Comparing Drizzt with a BG2 character doesn't work. A BG2 character goes from level 7 to level 15 in a few weeks of adventuring. It took Drizzt several books, but a slow progression like that in a computer game would drive all the kiddies crazy. They want their plus 5 sword and they want it now.Originally posted by Masteraleph:
<STRONG>Sloanzilla- what level character are you? remember we've got beyond Drizzt characters by TOB, and Drizzt level by SOA. So if a 15th level character can have a +3 and a +5, shouldn't a 30th have +5 or +6?</STRONG>
I can see an ancient red dragon having a +5 holy avenger in his horde -- he probably killed the paladin who tried to take him on. But when you find them on merchants and kobolds and "statues" ... what the hell? And what mage is sitting around creating all these magic items that become Bag of Holding loot to sell at the local Adventurer's Mart?
Rather than difficulty levels in a game, how about a "Monty Haul" level -- one for the Diablo freaks and another for the folks who want a normal distribution, with monsters balanced accordingly? Too much to ask?
Aegon the Barbarian
[ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: Aegon ]
There's nothing inherently wrong about about BG being unfaithful to the source material in the plentitude of ridiculously powerful items, or speed of leveling. It's a matter of personal preference.
Personally, I could care less about AD&D, so it really makes no difference to me if many things are unrealistic or just plain wrong in a PnP sense. I'm totally okay with them giving cannon fodder enemies +2 and +3 weapons, and giving the party +5 and +6 weapons with insane properties.
If you like AD&D, and want to replicate that experience in a computer game faithful to the source, then I can see disliking all the treasure (and other BG modifications). Similarly if you prefer having just a few treasured items rather than a lot of choices--they do seem a lot cooler that way, but it just restricts your options in developing characters to have just one or two uberitems.
BG has a ton of combat. If you didn't develop new combat powers (through levels and items) it would get pretty freaking boring. You're not sitting around RPGing with a lot of friends, and you're not spending your time in long dialogs a la Torment.
Personally, I could care less about AD&D, so it really makes no difference to me if many things are unrealistic or just plain wrong in a PnP sense. I'm totally okay with them giving cannon fodder enemies +2 and +3 weapons, and giving the party +5 and +6 weapons with insane properties.
If you like AD&D, and want to replicate that experience in a computer game faithful to the source, then I can see disliking all the treasure (and other BG modifications). Similarly if you prefer having just a few treasured items rather than a lot of choices--they do seem a lot cooler that way, but it just restricts your options in developing characters to have just one or two uberitems.
BG has a ton of combat. If you didn't develop new combat powers (through levels and items) it would get pretty freaking boring. You're not sitting around RPGing with a lot of friends, and you're not spending your time in long dialogs a la Torment.
imo, most of ToB makes PLENTY of sense for all those magical items. first off, you're characters are nearly gods and throughout the story you see them (the other bhaal spawns) referring to you as one VERY strong bhaalspawn. this is the end game and yes, there will be PLENTY of magical items involved. your group will be equiped with some of the finest items, so your enemies will need to be equiped fairly decently as well. if you're using a +5 weapon, it only makes sense that your enemies will be swarming you with +1 or +2 weapons to stay near par with you. heck, some of those guys use +3 weapons and can be a pain to beat. all of this makes sense.
furthermore, check out how the story is going. you're fighting large hordes of enemies now. ToB is where you ended up killing like 20-30 guys in one battle. i never recalled a time in SoA where i had that many to beat. the drows that follow sendai mostly use elvin chain +1 instead of the usual armor drow armor because they're preparing for war on the surface. this makes sense for the story plot as well.
this isn't so much about catering to the "power gamers", but more about you knowing what it feels like to have divine powers. the story states that you are a force to be reckoned with, and the game makers did a GREAT job of doing it.
in bg1 you had to fight tooth and nail in most of your encounters. you were a young character learning the ropes and nothing came easy. Seravok wasn't a joke with his buddies and you were glad when he finally went down since you had no more potions and spells left for anything else.
in bg2:soa you fight a stronger guy and things still aren't so easy, but you get a feeling that you're growing stronger. when you fight Seravok in hell, he's nothing to you. you get a sense that you've grown a bit. you claim your soul back from Irenicus and defeat someone who was considerably stronger than Seravok was.
in ToB you're almost fully developed. you're not a new kid trying to learn his/her way like you were in bg1. you are at your prime and now what others (the story npcs) feared you'd be if you had survived. you're a "godling" like you've been called for quite a while now.
so i wouldn't gripe about how easy it is to find +1 - +3 weapons now. besides, you need gold now and those weapons are a good source for money to do those upgrades.
fits the story and the economic needs. great job of a game.
furthermore, check out how the story is going. you're fighting large hordes of enemies now. ToB is where you ended up killing like 20-30 guys in one battle. i never recalled a time in SoA where i had that many to beat. the drows that follow sendai mostly use elvin chain +1 instead of the usual armor drow armor because they're preparing for war on the surface. this makes sense for the story plot as well.
this isn't so much about catering to the "power gamers", but more about you knowing what it feels like to have divine powers. the story states that you are a force to be reckoned with, and the game makers did a GREAT job of doing it.
in bg1 you had to fight tooth and nail in most of your encounters. you were a young character learning the ropes and nothing came easy. Seravok wasn't a joke with his buddies and you were glad when he finally went down since you had no more potions and spells left for anything else.
in bg2:soa you fight a stronger guy and things still aren't so easy, but you get a feeling that you're growing stronger. when you fight Seravok in hell, he's nothing to you. you get a sense that you've grown a bit. you claim your soul back from Irenicus and defeat someone who was considerably stronger than Seravok was.
in ToB you're almost fully developed. you're not a new kid trying to learn his/her way like you were in bg1. you are at your prime and now what others (the story npcs) feared you'd be if you had survived. you're a "godling" like you've been called for quite a while now.
so i wouldn't gripe about how easy it is to find +1 - +3 weapons now. besides, you need gold now and those weapons are a good source for money to do those upgrades.
fits the story and the economic needs. great job of a game.
Uhm... actually, it is a +5. A Defender's bonus has to be split between AC and hit/damage.Incidently, Defender +5 is a +3 weapon
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
Can some of us please stop complaining for couple of minutes. "Oh there are too many magic items eheheh ehehe" well boo hoo.( No offence and all)
Ok then so let's see, you only find magic items rarely, and fight from time to time with some monsters (AD&D aka the way some like it) and when you get the measily magic item its good enough to kill a measely boss!! That is just boring and annoying.
I am not a power gamer but I like for my games to progress more then 2 feet for at least a couple of hours.
I solely agree with the guy that proposed that you fight armies now and that they are from rich nations that are equiped better. Plus not all +3 weapons are enchanted basically a bow +3 means it is made better and is more accurate. You know.
Plus Bioware had made it pretty cool. You find all these cool and powerfull items but you can't use all of them. You just do not have enough proficencies to go around. I mean
when a thief gets an awesome weapon, dont forget he has only 1 slot in it. Powerfull I think not!
Now the fighter is the whole other story, but the fighter must focus only couple of weapons still balancing everything out. So just chill, this makes the game cooler. Just finding cool items.
Ok then so let's see, you only find magic items rarely, and fight from time to time with some monsters (AD&D aka the way some like it) and when you get the measily magic item its good enough to kill a measely boss!! That is just boring and annoying.
I am not a power gamer but I like for my games to progress more then 2 feet for at least a couple of hours.
I solely agree with the guy that proposed that you fight armies now and that they are from rich nations that are equiped better. Plus not all +3 weapons are enchanted basically a bow +3 means it is made better and is more accurate. You know.
Plus Bioware had made it pretty cool. You find all these cool and powerfull items but you can't use all of them. You just do not have enough proficencies to go around. I mean
when a thief gets an awesome weapon, dont forget he has only 1 slot in it. Powerfull I think not!
Now the fighter is the whole other story, but the fighter must focus only couple of weapons still balancing everything out. So just chill, this makes the game cooler. Just finding cool items.
Trap? What trap!? Ah shi....!!!!
Greater diversity of weapons does indeed make the game more interesting.
Drizzt's swords, for example, were obviously the top weapons in BG1, and as a consequence every tank PC I ever made was specialized in Large Swords.
In SoA, Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages seem to take the cake, but there are several weapons nearly as good. This gives players the opportunity to experiment with other proficiencies without missing out.
In ToB, the various weapons seem even more closely balanced, although it's probably only a matter of time before it's clear which ToB weapons are obviously the best.
Dual wielding also serves to spread the load. Finding two absolutely amazing weapons of the same type is not going to happen, so you'll have to either lower your standards, or wield a weapon you're not as proficient in.
Drizzt's swords, for example, were obviously the top weapons in BG1, and as a consequence every tank PC I ever made was specialized in Large Swords.
In SoA, Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages seem to take the cake, but there are several weapons nearly as good. This gives players the opportunity to experiment with other proficiencies without missing out.
In ToB, the various weapons seem even more closely balanced, although it's probably only a matter of time before it's clear which ToB weapons are obviously the best.
Dual wielding also serves to spread the load. Finding two absolutely amazing weapons of the same type is not going to happen, so you'll have to either lower your standards, or wield a weapon you're not as proficient in.
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Kyle Marksteiner
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"Plus not all +3 weapons are enchanted basically a bow +3 means it is made better and is more accurate."
Nope- a +3 bow is some weapon some mage spent months, if not years, enchanting.
Let me put it this way- if I bushwack my way through a dungeon and find a +2 sword at the end- that's a pretty big deal and a well deserved reward. Well, finding that +2 sword is kinda ruined if I just bought a fairly reasonably priced +3 weapon at the local bar. I don't object to the presence of high level weapons- I just think the overwhelming amount of high level weapons diminishes the cool feeling of finding one.
It's similar in real life, if everyone has a Porche- there's nothing really cool about buying a Porche.
"So just chill, this makes the game cooler"-
Well, obviously, you feel that way, others, including myself, would prefer fewer cool items.
Nope- a +3 bow is some weapon some mage spent months, if not years, enchanting.
Let me put it this way- if I bushwack my way through a dungeon and find a +2 sword at the end- that's a pretty big deal and a well deserved reward. Well, finding that +2 sword is kinda ruined if I just bought a fairly reasonably priced +3 weapon at the local bar. I don't object to the presence of high level weapons- I just think the overwhelming amount of high level weapons diminishes the cool feeling of finding one.
It's similar in real life, if everyone has a Porche- there's nothing really cool about buying a Porche.
"So just chill, this makes the game cooler"-
Well, obviously, you feel that way, others, including myself, would prefer fewer cool items.
"Those are brave men out there, let's go kill them"
If you would play the game as it was originally developed, that is, without the bonus merchants, would you like it better?
Does anyone feel the bonus merchants take some enjoyment out of the game?
Does anyone feel the bonus merchants take some enjoyment out of the game?
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.