Well I see alot of people complaining about how the weapons are too easy to get, and take no effort. Well no crap it takes less time to get a nice sword in a computer game compared to the pnp version, in BGII you can fly through a battle that would take hours in pnp because the computer does all the rolls and round handling instantly, there is no waiting around, its like saying well gee somethings not right, I just played a whole round of video golf and it didn't take me as long as playing it in real life. Computers speed everything up. But still I don't know about you but I have spent close to 160 hours on BG, BGII, and not ToB and still ahven't beaten it, I like to search out every possible nook and crany looking for stuff. My parties are pretty decked out, and yes I am finding it hard to decide what to give guys, I want them to have the best and you know what there may be a ton of uber weapons in ToB, but it really is hard to know what the best is, check out the other thread about it, noone can agree, there are almost too many options. That and the Holy Avenger is still my all time favorite weapon, I am sorry but the dispell magic is an almost necessity in ToB, my pally is the ultimate mage killer, corse things like golems and giants can eat him for breakfast if I just charge in and attack.
The one great point made was that in ToA you are fighting things on a much grander scale, in one zone you get ambushed like 6 times by giants, those bastards hit hard, if you don't have good armor or weapons I am sorry, no matter how good of a strategist you are your ass is grass.
The only complaint I have had with the game in terms of items is that I was very pissed that almost all my favorite items from SoA were bought at the store, that was a bunch of crap, otherwise I really like the item dispersement, shoot you want to take on a planatar using +2 weapons? good luck, if you can do it in pnp than your GM is on crack, only people of godlike status should ever even have a prayer in heck of lasting more than 2 rounds with one of those bad boys using entry lvl magic weapons.
Oh and that porche comment, if you have never driven a porche you don't care who has one, you just know that its the best ride of your life.
Is it just me..............
Ok ok so you think a +2 reward is all great .... but hold on what is it you are missing .... oh yea this is a VIDEO GAME! You know not exactly a DM is sitting there and telling you what to do. Though if you find yourself more enjoyable. Go find a +2 sword and prance around with it while those monster just own you.
No offence but the game will be much more boring and slow without some exiting weapons.
And if you dont like it that much... well.... I'll tell you what once was told to me... dont play it then. ( No offence but this is common sense)
No offence but the game will be much more boring and slow without some exiting weapons.
And if you dont like it that much... well.... I'll tell you what once was told to me... dont play it then. ( No offence but this is common sense)
Trap? What trap!? Ah shi....!!!!
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Kyle Marksteiner
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: Carlsbad, NM
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OK, I'm so ****ing sick of these "If you don't like it, don't play it" quips I could spit blood. That's just moronic, Okay? Heaven forbid we actually post our opinions on what we think would make the game more interesting.
I'd like an option that took out the monte haul nature of the game- you could leave it on monte haul if you like- but how the hell would the presence of that option really hurt your gameplay? I fail to understand why some people get so defensive when some of us dare to suggest that we think the game would be more fun with fewer magic items.
I'd like an option that took out the monte haul nature of the game- you could leave it on monte haul if you like- but how the hell would the presence of that option really hurt your gameplay? I fail to understand why some people get so defensive when some of us dare to suggest that we think the game would be more fun with fewer magic items.
"Those are brave men out there, let's go kill them"
I agree...
Isn't what this post is for, to express opinions? First of all, not many people who didn't like the game are here. Think about it, who would be here looking through previous posts for strats, techniques, or bug related info. Sure the game has problems IMO, but that's how the developers wanted it. They want more weapons, great. So, let's play by their rules. If we want to change the rules that's fine as well, you paid the money (hopefully not ripped off). But if the creators say more weapons, good. If you don't want 'em don't pick 'em up. Simple as pie.
However, it is still there job to make the game difficult yet still enjoyable and of course beatable. That's what makes the game fun. Who wants to prance around for weeks until you finally get to fight your first monster or even better a dragon, because you were trying to raise money for weapons that aren't even magically enchanted.
I also agree with the comment about favorite weapons being sold at the stores. I don't have the special disks, so I played the game first w/out the added sales peeps. It was more difficult, but fun. Then, I added them in from a download. Geesh... That's what I'm talking about. To be able to walk into a Beholder's ray. Wow... That makes a beholder almost useles. A helm that can make a weaker version of a fighter... hehe.. I guess what I'm saying is without those added peeps the game seems more interesting. That's also because getting a thief to make your money deletes the high prices that accompany such items. By giving us a monster to fight for those items make it more fun and interesting. I would rather have to deal with the entire drow army to get the robe of vecna, than purchase it at the store. Kinda takes the whole fun out of it. But hey, I can always not buy from them, or take out those added merchs, at least I have that option. That's what I love about the game.
Don't gripe about something that you have the right to change. That's the way Bioware made it.
Isn't what this post is for, to express opinions? First of all, not many people who didn't like the game are here. Think about it, who would be here looking through previous posts for strats, techniques, or bug related info. Sure the game has problems IMO, but that's how the developers wanted it. They want more weapons, great. So, let's play by their rules. If we want to change the rules that's fine as well, you paid the money (hopefully not ripped off). But if the creators say more weapons, good. If you don't want 'em don't pick 'em up. Simple as pie.
However, it is still there job to make the game difficult yet still enjoyable and of course beatable. That's what makes the game fun. Who wants to prance around for weeks until you finally get to fight your first monster or even better a dragon, because you were trying to raise money for weapons that aren't even magically enchanted.
I also agree with the comment about favorite weapons being sold at the stores. I don't have the special disks, so I played the game first w/out the added sales peeps. It was more difficult, but fun. Then, I added them in from a download. Geesh... That's what I'm talking about. To be able to walk into a Beholder's ray. Wow... That makes a beholder almost useles. A helm that can make a weaker version of a fighter... hehe.. I guess what I'm saying is without those added peeps the game seems more interesting. That's also because getting a thief to make your money deletes the high prices that accompany such items. By giving us a monster to fight for those items make it more fun and interesting. I would rather have to deal with the entire drow army to get the robe of vecna, than purchase it at the store. Kinda takes the whole fun out of it. But hey, I can always not buy from them, or take out those added merchs, at least I have that option. That's what I love about the game.
Don't gripe about something that you have the right to change. That's the way Bioware made it.
Dragons, demons, fair maidens in distress... A daily life of a cavalier - Gecko
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I did NOT want to know before i had finished the game for the first time...Originally posted by Lemark:
<STRONG>when you fight Seravok in hell, he's nothing to you. you get a sense that you've grown a bit. you claim your soul back from Irenicus and defeat someone who was considerably stronger than Seravok was.
</STRONG>
SHAME ON YOU!!!
I HOPE YOU FEEL REALLY BAD ABOUT YOURSELF NOW!!
no, seriously. try not to include such MAJOR spoilers when you post
You know, like... a very long time ago, I was like a ... Moonblade. Hehehe.
Beating the Twisted Rune for the Staff of the Magi has indeed a bit more allure than just walking over to the Adventurer's Mart and coughing up 40K...
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
Hey Sloanzilla chill a bit eh? You just contradicted yourself. You say that you are so damn sick of "Don't like it don't play it" but hey that's the opinion from some of us.
Iz cool that you would like the game with fewer magic items, but hey most of those "Magic items" are just +3 weapons and thats all. So you just sell em. The powerfull magic items are not that frequent.
Oh yea and the bonus merchants. Yea I agree with gecko, they make the game just a bit too easy. The beholder shield and such. But at the same time is it just me or those Gaus and Beholders are too powerfull in groups. It took me quite a lot of saves to take em out. (Wrong Strategy Maybe?)
Iz cool that you would like the game with fewer magic items, but hey most of those "Magic items" are just +3 weapons and thats all. So you just sell em. The powerfull magic items are not that frequent.
Oh yea and the bonus merchants. Yea I agree with gecko, they make the game just a bit too easy. The beholder shield and such. But at the same time is it just me or those Gaus and Beholders are too powerfull in groups. It took me quite a lot of saves to take em out. (Wrong Strategy Maybe?)
Trap? What trap!? Ah shi....!!!!
oops, sorry about that mort. i just assumed that everyone was on tob and had finished soa. my bad and i hope you'll accept my apology.
as for sloanzilla, you can "attempt" to combat some of those monsters and main npcs with +2 weapons...but some can't be hurt unless you use +3 or greater. so basically, there are very few options if you really want to finish the game. furthermore, there is a point during the last battle with "someone" (for mort's sake i'll try not to spoil much) where +2 weapons will pretty much seal your fate. as novel as the idea of continuing with lesser enchanted items is, its not practical for the story plot. you are very close to being a god and your enemies down the road are about that in strength too. biowares did what it had to do to follow through with the story plot. try to understand that. your enemies are no longer just minor grunts, they're a group of the most powerful beings of your time. you think fighting a planetar is bad, just wait until you fight erm....something more worse that fights with a ugly bow later on. (can't say the name because of mort.) so a feature like that won't make sense because they'd have to reshift the game plot and the available characters. you'd basically kill the purpose of ToB.
look back at the game and story after you finish it and maybe things will make more sense for you. good luck and have fun.
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Lemark ]
as for sloanzilla, you can "attempt" to combat some of those monsters and main npcs with +2 weapons...but some can't be hurt unless you use +3 or greater. so basically, there are very few options if you really want to finish the game. furthermore, there is a point during the last battle with "someone" (for mort's sake i'll try not to spoil much) where +2 weapons will pretty much seal your fate. as novel as the idea of continuing with lesser enchanted items is, its not practical for the story plot. you are very close to being a god and your enemies down the road are about that in strength too. biowares did what it had to do to follow through with the story plot. try to understand that. your enemies are no longer just minor grunts, they're a group of the most powerful beings of your time. you think fighting a planetar is bad, just wait until you fight erm....something more worse that fights with a ugly bow later on. (can't say the name because of mort.) so a feature like that won't make sense because they'd have to reshift the game plot and the available characters. you'd basically kill the purpose of ToB.
look back at the game and story after you finish it and maybe things will make more sense for you. good luck and have fun.
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Lemark ]
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Drakron Du´Dark
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 11:00 pm
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Crom Faeyr is a mirror of a AD&D weapon.
Also the *real* staff of the mage and "Crom Faeyr" have been used in AD&D campains for a long time.
Rare yes but not impossible.
True about having a lot of magical weapons in the game but could it be in another way?
No, this is a (medium level for SoA) high level (for ToB) campain were we face very powerful enemys that have their own magical weapons.
There could be no other way....
Also the *real* staff of the mage and "Crom Faeyr" have been used in AD&D campains for a long time.
Rare yes but not impossible.
True about having a lot of magical weapons in the game but could it be in another way?
No, this is a (medium level for SoA) high level (for ToB) campain were we face very powerful enemys that have their own magical weapons.
There could be no other way....
- Waterdeep city constrution.
- Shadowdale low level adventure module.
- Rashmare /Thay high level adventure module.
- Shadowdale low level adventure module.
- Rashmare /Thay high level adventure module.
I think you're all missing the point. Sure, you need +3 to +5 weapons to finish off the uber MOBs at the end of the game, but since when to adventurers get choices like:
"Hmm, should I use my +5 sword of nuclear devastation or my +4 boomerang throwing axe of save at -4 vs. death or die?"
In most PnP games the DM will give you what you need to combat his monsters, but most won't give you multiple choice.
For example, finishing Ust Natha and returning the dragon eggs to Adalon gives you a suitable reward -- a +3 crossbow and freedom from the Underdark. Two hours later at Watcher's Keep (with the expansion installed) I was able to purchase a nuclear bow of devastation for 7k gold from the merchant atop the keep. So I sold the Adalon bow and the *other two* crossbows +3 I had in inventory and bought the new one. That's not very realistic.
How unique would Carosmyr be if there were five or six similar weapons you could buy at the merchants? Wouldn't you rather pry the Robe of Vecna from the cold, dead hands of the former Greyhawk wizard who stole it and transported himself to Toril?
And who the heck is enchanting swords to +2 for skeletal warriors to use? The gods themselves?
There's nothing wrong with getting what you need from treasure chests and dead NPC monsters, but finding Kobolds with +1 swords is kind of ridiculous. They should probably have rusty swords -1.
Aegon
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Aegon ]
"Hmm, should I use my +5 sword of nuclear devastation or my +4 boomerang throwing axe of save at -4 vs. death or die?"
In most PnP games the DM will give you what you need to combat his monsters, but most won't give you multiple choice.
For example, finishing Ust Natha and returning the dragon eggs to Adalon gives you a suitable reward -- a +3 crossbow and freedom from the Underdark. Two hours later at Watcher's Keep (with the expansion installed) I was able to purchase a nuclear bow of devastation for 7k gold from the merchant atop the keep. So I sold the Adalon bow and the *other two* crossbows +3 I had in inventory and bought the new one. That's not very realistic.
How unique would Carosmyr be if there were five or six similar weapons you could buy at the merchants? Wouldn't you rather pry the Robe of Vecna from the cold, dead hands of the former Greyhawk wizard who stole it and transported himself to Toril?
And who the heck is enchanting swords to +2 for skeletal warriors to use? The gods themselves?
There's nothing wrong with getting what you need from treasure chests and dead NPC monsters, but finding Kobolds with +1 swords is kind of ridiculous. They should probably have rusty swords -1.
Aegon
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Aegon ]
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Drakron Du´Dark
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 11:00 pm
- Contact:
Well Carosmyr (pre ToB) is nothing more that a common holy avenger sword (as the engine lets it be) with a fancy name.
There are a number of Paladins that have one (Dragonbait, the saurial paladin HAD one for example).
The only problem I *could* have are the unheard +6 weapons but I will just call then +5/+6 weapons.
Yes, there are powerful weapons in the game but again, what is the point of that?
Many weapons are used by a specific class or are viewed of being used by that
There are a number of Paladins that have one (Dragonbait, the saurial paladin HAD one for example).
The only problem I *could* have are the unheard +6 weapons but I will just call then +5/+6 weapons.
Yes, there are powerful weapons in the game but again, what is the point of that?
Many weapons are used by a specific class or are viewed of being used by that
- Waterdeep city constrution.
- Shadowdale low level adventure module.
- Rashmare /Thay high level adventure module.
- Shadowdale low level adventure module.
- Rashmare /Thay high level adventure module.
I agree on the +6 part, that is going just a bit overboard. I think +5 weapons are enough.
Now again, sure adalon gives you a nice reward but come on look at the story. In are in the underdark right? Beholders, Illithids, and Drow. Assumption that Silver bastard makes is that you probably got so many magical items, that you don't need anything else. So she gives you a punny X-bow.
Plus this is a video game so it goes much faster. I mean I have not met a kobold with a +1 just yet. And what I am meeting is parties from very, very wealthy cities with +3 weapons. That makes sence right? You know they got so much money that they pay the wizards to enchant them. You know if you think about it, it all makes sense.
Now again, sure adalon gives you a nice reward but come on look at the story. In are in the underdark right? Beholders, Illithids, and Drow. Assumption that Silver bastard makes is that you probably got so many magical items, that you don't need anything else. So she gives you a punny X-bow.
Plus this is a video game so it goes much faster. I mean I have not met a kobold with a +1 just yet. And what I am meeting is parties from very, very wealthy cities with +3 weapons. That makes sence right? You know they got so much money that they pay the wizards to enchant them. You know if you think about it, it all makes sense.
Trap? What trap!? Ah shi....!!!!
This is an interesting thread (as are most). I have given considerable thought to this whole concept (but from a position of never playing PnP AD&D).
I understand the progression of strength, in both character and weapon attributes, as well as the hook of more and more powerful enemies. I would rather see fewer uber- weapons, armor and artifacts but only in the sense of type. In other words, why +5/+6 multi-attribute items of every conceivable type? As in, multiples of long swords, bastard swords, two-handed swords, short-swords, katanas, flails, halberds, spears, axes, maces, daggers, etc., etc.. I would rather see the selection be a little more, well, selective. The existence of four or five very powerful axes (or whatever) seems a bit much for me. Having one that can be upgraded as the game progresses seems more reasonable to me.
The concept of a couple of smiths that can upgrade or enhance weapons, armor and artifacts as the game progresses is a stroke of genius (IMO). I would rather see the concept of finding a particular item and then clues (pieces of scrolls, passages in select books) that lead you to other items that can be combined to form a more powerful item. I understand that this concept is being used in ToB for some of the items from SoA and this is a good thing.
As far as the ‘bonus’ merchants, or any merchant, having the Robe of Vecna or Dakron’s Zerth Blade seems a bit much for me too. How about something more along the lines of; ‘I have this magic robe for sale. I don’t know what all it’s powers are but I’ve heard of a wizard in Trademeet that may be able to explain it’s attributes to you. If you want to take the chance it’ll be 7500 gold.’ Or even items that ‘reveal’ their true powers the more you use them.
But, at any rate the BG saga is ending with ToB so we’ll just have to wait for the next great CRPG to evolve……
I understand the progression of strength, in both character and weapon attributes, as well as the hook of more and more powerful enemies. I would rather see fewer uber- weapons, armor and artifacts but only in the sense of type. In other words, why +5/+6 multi-attribute items of every conceivable type? As in, multiples of long swords, bastard swords, two-handed swords, short-swords, katanas, flails, halberds, spears, axes, maces, daggers, etc., etc.. I would rather see the selection be a little more, well, selective. The existence of four or five very powerful axes (or whatever) seems a bit much for me. Having one that can be upgraded as the game progresses seems more reasonable to me.
The concept of a couple of smiths that can upgrade or enhance weapons, armor and artifacts as the game progresses is a stroke of genius (IMO). I would rather see the concept of finding a particular item and then clues (pieces of scrolls, passages in select books) that lead you to other items that can be combined to form a more powerful item. I understand that this concept is being used in ToB for some of the items from SoA and this is a good thing.
As far as the ‘bonus’ merchants, or any merchant, having the Robe of Vecna or Dakron’s Zerth Blade seems a bit much for me too. How about something more along the lines of; ‘I have this magic robe for sale. I don’t know what all it’s powers are but I’ve heard of a wizard in Trademeet that may be able to explain it’s attributes to you. If you want to take the chance it’ll be 7500 gold.’ Or even items that ‘reveal’ their true powers the more you use them.
But, at any rate the BG saga is ending with ToB so we’ll just have to wait for the next great CRPG to evolve……
There's no such thing...a common holy avenger sword
And I had never heard of +6 weapons before ToB either. I guess the developers felt some strange urge to up the munchkinism another level.
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
I am getting pretty deep into Watchers Keep and let me just say that I have had to work through alot of the battles, some of those guys are tough as nails to hit, the basic grunts in one lvl are tieflings, a group of them are much harder than any party I have faced in the majority of SoA or BGI and they were the grunts, as long as you don't cheese your way through combat, like by having 30 copies of every scroll on hand then some of these battles are very tricky, do you have any idea what a pain in the ass it is having all your mages turned to stone? took me awhile to get scrolls to turn them back, there went my spell support for awhile. I am having a blast with the high lvl items and high lvl abilities, I admit I am not a pnp purist, but I think they BlackIsle did a pretty good job so far, the battle at the end of watcher's keep will be a key factor for me, if I can walse on in and win on my first try I will be pissed.
I also have to say though that the Holy Avenger although it isn't common, it is a symbol of the highest order of paladins, it is not an artifact and it has a definate place in this game, plus I have to say I use a melee heavy group and it is a lifesaver against all those damn mages. For those of you not in ToB yet I hope you don't mind waiting around since timestop gets used often and you get to sit back and watch as your party members get torn apart one by one without you being able to do a thing about it. Sorry for being long winded, but I have to say I love posting here compared to everquest boards, I think I found a new hobbie, people here actually have respect for one another.
I also have to say though that the Holy Avenger although it isn't common, it is a symbol of the highest order of paladins, it is not an artifact and it has a definate place in this game, plus I have to say I use a melee heavy group and it is a lifesaver against all those damn mages. For those of you not in ToB yet I hope you don't mind waiting around since timestop gets used often and you get to sit back and watch as your party members get torn apart one by one without you being able to do a thing about it. Sorry for being long winded, but I have to say I love posting here compared to everquest boards, I think I found a new hobbie, people here actually have respect for one another.
I am a bit of a PnP purist, but I must admit that the SoA/ToB high level items are indeed a good job. There is no vanilla +4 weapon in the game, and even vanilla +2's and +3's are rare.
In the "good" old days of Pool of Radiance it was:
"It's... a Holy Avenger!"
"What does it do?"
"Uhm... besides being +5, nothing."
In the "good" old days of Pool of Radiance it was:
"It's... a Holy Avenger!"
"What does it do?"
"Uhm... besides being +5, nothing."
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
hmm I kind thought about this whole magic item thing and I actually see what are most people are so disapointed of.
I see what you mean by just finding the magic
items anywhere. Actually you are right you do find them just lying around and not from good fights. In BG1 you had to fight your ass off to get the LongSword +2, and Short Sword +2. In this game you just buy the damn Robe of Vecna instead of getting it. Now the fikraag holding the Holy Avenger that made sence but finding foebane just lying around from a weak ass fight that's kind of lame, your'e right. The game is still good none the less.
But if you do wanna work for your items, try IceWind Dale i actually think its better then BG2, though i still haven't gotten the expansion pakc
I see what you mean by just finding the magic
items anywhere. Actually you are right you do find them just lying around and not from good fights. In BG1 you had to fight your ass off to get the LongSword +2, and Short Sword +2. In this game you just buy the damn Robe of Vecna instead of getting it. Now the fikraag holding the Holy Avenger that made sence but finding foebane just lying around from a weak ass fight that's kind of lame, your'e right. The game is still good none the less.
But if you do wanna work for your items, try IceWind Dale i actually think its better then BG2, though i still haven't gotten the expansion pakc
Trap? What trap!? Ah shi....!!!!