A Disturbing Trend?

[Aegis]

Originally posted by CannibalBob
And about PDF manuals, who in their right mind is happy with that? A real manual is worth the money, one that has actual content that you'd actually refer back to while playing. Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, BG2, NWN, etc. have good manuals. Plus they're good reads in the bathroom, and who would bring their computer in there anyway?

Simply put, the majority of gamers don't even refer to the manuals.

Also, again, it doesn't matter whether or not a game is sold legally in Asia or not. Piracy is still piracy, and it still affects developers. One such reason is may not be sold in Asia is because the Piracy. That shuts down a rather large potential consumer area. Regardless of how you look at it, Piracy is hurting the industry, and in a huge way, and it doesn't matter if it's piracy in North American, Europe, or Asia.

[fable]

And in Asia, my point is that if the publishers haven't actually published a copy in Asia, who cares if they copy it.

I'm not making myself clear. When I write, "The loss to sales in Asia alone is estimated in the billions of dollars per year." this is because the games are being published and distributed, there. Asia has one of the biggest computer-literate markets in the world, and one of the biggest gaming markets, as well. As I wrote above, "There are tens of millions of people who speak English and live in Asia; the number grows, daily. English is what Italian, Arabic and Latin have been, at various times and in various places: the language of business. Have you ever been to Singapore? Or Hong Kong? Are you aware that they sell pirated copies of brand new Hollywood films, without subtitles, on the main market streets for less than $3 a piece?"

In short, the game publishers are issuing all their products for distribution in Asia, and there are plenty of people who can play 'em. What's happening is that the stuff is getting pirated immediately, and the loss of revenue is such that several companies have already asked the US government to intervene because of tremendous financial loss.

[CannibalBob]

Originally posted by Aegis
Simply put, the majority of gamers don't even refer to the manuals.

Depends on the game, of course. RPGs have lots of content, I don't see how you can't refer to the manual. True, most of it is in-game, but there still is a lot of stuff that isn't.

OK I see that the piracy in Asia shuts down a very profitable portion of selling games, but personally, I don't know of a lot of games that were imported to Asia. All I can think of is Starcraft, and if Blizzard lost billions of dollars due to that, it doesn't matter since they have loads of money anyway.

But what about in the early to mid 90's, did Asia have a lot of PC gamers? I figured NES, SNES and other consoles were the primary gaming systems there.

If it's such a big deal with piracy in Asia, then stop importing games there. Sure you won't make as much money, but in the early 90's, games were better and they didn't need imports. I find that strange, and "new technology" is no excuse. To make a good game, all you need is time, creativity and programming abilities.

[Aegis]

Okay, let's try this again:

OK I see that the piracy in Asia shuts down a very profitable portion of selling games, but personally, I don't know of a lot of games that were imported to Asia. All I can think of is Starcraft, and if Blizzard lost billions of dollars due to that, it doesn't matter since they have loads of money anyway.

Please refer to Fable's post about how Asia accounts for Millions of gamers that the Industry must still provide for. Refer to his remark about how Piracy in Asia is responsible for billions of dollars lost to developers. Also note how many developers and producers are issuing games for release, in ASIA.

It's far more than just Starcraft. And it doesn't matter that Blizzard has enough money, piracy is still illegal, however you look at it, and whoever it happens to. Please, read the posts before commenting.

But what about in the early to mid 90's, did Asia have a lot of PC gamers? I figured NES, SNES and other consoles were the primary gaming systems there.

Indeed there were. Where does the comment steam from, as we've been speaking trends since PC gaming, and how susceptable to piracy it is and has been. This comment really has no bearing on the discussion.

If it's such a big deal with piracy in Asia, then stop importing games there. Sure you won't make as much money, but in the early 90's, games were better and they didn't need imports. I find that strange, and "new technology" is no excuse. To make a good game, all you need is time, creativity and programming abilities.

Welcome to Corporate North America. The all mighty dollar controls all, and as long as the producers gain a positive profit, they will attempt to sell where ever they can. Inaddition, simply pulling out of Asia because of piracy would only show them giving up on a problem that plagues the industry, and needs to be dealt with. Piracy does not need that sort of victory. Not only that, but it would be cutting off half the world to the gaming industry, only causing it falter even faster then it already is.

Now, I think Fable has made it pain stackingly clear about the piracy issue in Asia, and we'll consider that matter closed. It may be referenced, but there is really nothing more than can be said about it.

[CannibalBob]

OK ok I get it now, I've read the posts, but I was just asking for some examples. I haven't heard of any, but I don't live in Asia so I wouldn't know.

I just think the art of creating PC games is not just for the money, but for the sheer fun of it. I doubt developers make a great game and say, "I hated the whole process, I want another job." Sure, making money is a whole point of it, but if you think so strongly on the revenues, on how you're going to market the game to sell the most, then the developers are missing the point. What this has to do with piracy is that the developers shouldn't fret so much about the revenue. If the game was good, and there are many gamers who will remember it, then consider a job well done. Piracy happens, it always has happened, perhaps they shouldn't focus so much on ways to get around it, but to focus on what they're doing: making games, good ones.

[Aegis]

It's not up to the Developers to determine how they want to make the game. It's up to the producer of the game. The producer gives the dev's the money to make the game, and the dev's devote that money how the producers want it to be devoted. For the most part, towards the eye candy aspect of the game.

This is where the link of piracy comes in. If a producer does not see a lot of return for some games, they will give less money to developers, and as such, the developers will have less money to spread around, so te aspects that the producer wants to look good, will look good, but at the cost of the other areas.

[CannibalBob]

Huh, I figured the developers just make a game when they have a great idea, and then they find a publisher to do packaging, CD stamping, marketing, etc. and that the developers receive a portion of the revenue while giving some to the publishers, too. But I guess that's what it was like back then, but not any more.

Oh well, times have changed, but I still see a lot of potential in games. I doubt I will see some great classic remakes, like Torment, but I guess that's up to the fans. http://www.city-of-doors.com

[fable]

Originally posted by CannibalBob
Huh, I figured the developers just make a game when they have a great idea, and then they find a publisher to do packaging, CD stamping, marketing, etc. and that the developers receive a portion of the revenue while giving some to the publishers, too. But I guess that's what it was like back then, but not any more.

Not generally, no, and not for at least a decade. Interplay arranged for BIS, its subsidiary, to make PS:T, for example. Frog City, which has a great idea to do a hybrid strategy/RPG, had put the idea on hold for four years while doing the game it was offered by Eidos: Trade Empires. Bethesda makes its own games--but Daggerfall was so badly pirated that the owners sold the company to regain some of their funding, and for a while it looked like it would close. After Garriott sold Origin Systems to EA, he retained only the most tenuous control of the company's content. The same applies to Will Wright, and SimCity.