Silver Weapon Against Shapeshifters - (spoiler)

ImmortalFlayer · Post by **ImmortalFlayer** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:11 pm

i have been fiddling around with the Infinity Explorer a bit and i noticed that there's a check for whether a weapon is silver or cold iron. well, i'm not sure if many of you have experienced this but the werewolf leader when doing the shade lord quest - the one that wants revenge on shade lord, Anath is her name - can only be hurt by a precious few equipments.

during my run Carsomyr could hurt her but no other weapon in the inventory could. incidentally, Carsomyr's marked as a silver AND cold iron weapon in the IE. so i tested various weapons against her using the console and it turns out she can only be hurt by the weapons that are marked as being cold iron. (ex. Flame Tongue, Azuredge, Bastardsword: +3 vs. shapeshifters, but not Crom Faeyr even though it's +5)

the interesting thing is, no other werewolf nor wolfwere is protected in this manner...

ultimately my questions boil down to two:
1. what exactly does being marked silver or cold iron (possibly both) do? example: common and DnD lore would indicate that silver weapon's effective against undead, lycanthrope, and demon types but i've never noticed it.

2. is this kind of immunity used in any other monster? i usually play SoA without ToB installed (more fun that way IMO) so maybe it was different in ToB but perhaps i didn't noticed it.

any thoughts??

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:26 pm

Well, what you say is true, normaly Silver kills lycanthropus creatures, undead and generaly evil outsiders. but i've never heard of cold iron being that powerful. I just checked in all my D&D 3.5 books and... i'm sorry to say i can't find a thing. It does mark as a strange metal but still, it dosn't say what it can or can't affect. Maybe it's just a BG thing. I dunno. *shrugs*

ImmortalFlayer · Post by **ImmortalFlayer** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:52 pm

you're right.

as for the cold iron weapons, i don't get it either, mainly because they are supposed be be ordinary. example: in ADnD iron weapon does no damage against powerful demons like the pit fiend or the balor, and silver weapon does half damage (not sure about the weapons being magical though)... the demons became so weak in BGII.

what i really don't understand though is why they're there in the first place since it doesn't seem like it matters at all, except in the encounter mentioned above.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:02 pm

Originally posted by Adahn
Well, what you say is true, normaly Silver kills lycanthropus creatures, undead and generaly evil outsiders. but i've never heard of cold iron being that powerful. I just checked in all my D&D 3.5 books and...

Ah, the limitations of AD&D as a cultural reference.

Traditionally in many cultures that feared various air-related spirits (such as the sylvani, the faeryfolk), the touch of iron was, to them, the same as the touch of a cross to vampires: the body actually burned away, as though hit by incredibly corrosive acid. Iron was also believed to form an impenetrable barrier--so placing iron in a doorway to a house could keep these beings from entering.

It sounds like the devs at one point considered using some of these creatures who were susceptible to iron, then changed their minds.

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:49 am

In 1st edition AD&D, demons could be hit only by magic or cold iron weapons, devils only by magic or silver. I presume from the posts above that this no longer applies, but don't have the books in front of me to check.

The "lucky horseshoe", traditionally nailed over a doorway, is an echo of the old folklore. The important thing is not its shape or anything to do with horses, but simply the fact that it's a lump of iron...

Terry Pratchett's "Lords and Ladies" offers an interesting reinterpretation the ancient beliefs, as well as being a jolly good read.

B.

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:03 pm

Alright but, Baldur's Gate II wasn't made on first edition AD&D rules... if i'm not mistaken, so... it couldn't be that.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:27 pm

Presumably they started to implement it and decided it was too much of a bother. My understanding is that BG is mostly 2nd edition but draws from various rule sets and makes up some of its own.

This would be an interesting feature for the Unfinished Business mod, or something similar, to implement.

Sir Redweed · Post by **Sir Redweed** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:23 am

For those that believe BGI & II were based on 2nd & 3rd edition only get a Monster Manual I or II, or a Fiend Folio from the 1st ed and look at all the specialty monsters from that gameplay that are in BG II

Remember just because it is a newer version doesn't always make it a better one. IMO the armour class change from -10/10 scale to the 0/30 scale is a step backward. Glad its not in BGII.

Mini Me · Post by **Mini Me** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:12 am

Originally posted by Boris

The "lucky horseshoe", traditionally nailed over a doorway, is an echo of the old folklore. The important thing is not its shape or anything to do with horses, but simply the fact that it's a lump of iron...

Terry Pratchett's "Lords and Ladies" offers an interesting reinterpretation the ancient beliefs, as well as being a jolly good read.

B.

Sorry, but as a pratchett reader, I was wondering if you have read Good Omens and that this horseshoe is what is affecting "Dog" when it is told to enter Anathema's house? I didnt understand that and I feel I am missing something vital.

off topic over