I dare someone who has been through the game already, and is looking for a challenge, to play this party.
I call this party "The Holy Ones." It consists of 4 to 6 characters, to be multi-classed, throughout the adventure, and to be taken through Heart of Fury mode.
1 Gold Dwarf Paladin of Helm (Multi-class to Fighter, where the levels go depending upon the taste of whoever undertakes this party)
1 Aasimar Paladin of Ilmater (Multi-class to Cleric), optional in place of either two below
1 Female Drow Monk of the Broken Ones (Multi-class to Cleric), optional in place of above
1 Female Drow Paladin of Ilmater (Multi-class to Cleric), optional in place of either two above
1 Tiefling Monk of the Old Order (Multi-class to Rogue)
1 Male Drow Paladin of Mystra (To be multi-classed as Wizard, most levels in Wizard, of course)
The Gold Dwarf Paladin sounded like a natural, for some reason. Since Paladins of Helm can multi-class as Fighters, which are the favored class of Gold Dwarves, this could work.
The Aasimar Paladin of Ilmater was another idea of mine, since Aasimar favored class is Paladin, and they gain a bonus to their Wisdom and Charisma. Both the Paladin and Cleric classes benefit from these stats, and so this, like the Gold Dwarf Paladin, could work as well.
The Female Drow Monk is meant as an alternative to the Aasimar Paladin previously mentioned. Drow get a bonus to Dexterity (which would do well for the Monk class), and since the Monk of the Broken ones can multi-class as a Cleric of Ilmater (Cleric is the favored class of female drow), then this would work out very well. Drow also get a bonus to Charisma, which could work out for checks and charges to turn undead for a Cleric.
Another option could be to have a Female Drow Paladin of Ilmater, since, as mentioned with the Monk above, a Drow gains a bonus to Charisma, equal to an Aasimar. Still, Drow get a +2 Level Adjustment, compared to +1 for either an Aasimar or Tiefling. Still, anyone daring enough to undertake an adventure with this party may find this to be of little detriment.
The Tiefling Monk of the Old Order is an interesting concept. I though of this with the idea that Monks of the Old Order can multi-class as Rogues and still level in the Monk class. Tieflings have rogue as their favored class, and their bonuses to Dexterity and Intelligence would help them out immensely, since both classes benefit from high Dex scores, and Int helps with finding and disarming traps for Rogues. Overall, it would work.
The final character, the Male Drow Paladin of Mystra, is a slightly zany idea. Male Drow have their favored class as Wizard, and Drow gain initial bonuses to Dexterity, Intelligence, and Charisma. The Dexterity and Intelligence would help for the Wizard class, while Charisma would help for whatever amount of Paladin levels the player of this party would choose to have. Of course, Drow have a +2 Level Adjustment, but this is for an expert at the game who is looking for a challenge.
Anyone care (or dare) to take up this party?
Got an idea for a good-aligned party for experts (completing the game once advised).
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Got an idea for a good-aligned party for experts (completing the game once advised).
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
seems like nice possey of self-righteous do-gooders 
now, what i have to say about them (i just love this kind of posts, like a fantasy-world organizational consulting ):
dwarf pal of helm/ftr - i had a char like this in one of my parties, he's an exellent tank, with good offencive and defencive capabilities. you don't even need a high cha score - 15 or so is enough, because of dwarves better saves (you can always cast Eagle's Splendor on him). and i'd recommend a shield dwarf instead of the gold dwarf - his to-hit and damage bonuses do matter, while by the time you get to the Undedark you won't need +1 to hit.
monk/cleric vs. pal/cleric - it's up to you, realy. get one of them, get both of them, get a monk1/pal2/cleric XX - whatever you want. the monk class is only good for monk items and wis AC bonus, since you won't have enough points to get good dex.
pal/wizard - get an aasimar pal/sorc instead. this way you keep upgrading cha throughout the game, nad get insane saves and bonus spells. you don't need more than 2 pal levels, so not being able to multiclass freely is not a problem. your clerics will handle the undead turning, and the tanking pal/ftr can renove deseases.
a couple of your chars will have a good cha, which means you can spread the dialog skills around, or just focus on a "PR person" (the pal/sorc is an exellent candidate her) to handle all your diplomacy/bluff/intimidation reqs.
now for your partie's rogue.
the way i see it, there are two roles a rogue has outside of combat - a scout and a trapmaster/lockmaster. thes don't necessarily have to be done by the same char. in fact it is better to have two chars do it, as each role combines naturally with one of two combat roles rogues are good at - the sneak attacker/magekiller and the sniper.
your monk/rogue is a natural for the scout+magekiller task. i had a char in this role in every party i had, with varius builds. i didn't like the rogue (low levles) / monk XX, because, well... a monk is just better if he's a single class char. in HoF this build can work better.
one build i suggest here is the pinnacle of my IWD multiclassing attempts:
human, str16 dex18 con14 int12 wiz10 cha6 rogue3/monk3/ranger2/fighter8 (end of normal mode) which becomes rogue3/monk3/ranger3/ftr10/wiz5 by the 30 levels XP cap, the 5th wizard (or specialist wizard) is taken at level 30, when the xP penalty does not matter. an alternative will be aslightly less martially-oriented ftr4/ran3/monk3/rogXX, human or tiefling. see this for some elaboratin.
now, the trapmaster/loksmith goes well with the sniper combat role. i've had different chars for this position, like a halfling ftr4/rogueXX and a drow ftrXX/rogueXX (who was the best,. if you want all of your chars to have monk or paladin levels, use the above build fore this role, and get a single-class monk or a monk with a couple of rogue levles (3 sems to do it) to do your scouting and magekilling.
now, what i have to say about them (i just love this kind of posts, like a fantasy-world organizational consulting
):dwarf pal of helm/ftr - i had a char like this in one of my parties, he's an exellent tank, with good offencive and defencive capabilities. you don't even need a high cha score - 15 or so is enough, because of dwarves better saves (you can always cast Eagle's Splendor on him). and i'd recommend a shield dwarf instead of the gold dwarf - his to-hit and damage bonuses do matter, while by the time you get to the Undedark you won't need +1 to hit.
monk/cleric vs. pal/cleric - it's up to you, realy. get one of them, get both of them, get a monk1/pal2/cleric XX - whatever you want. the monk class is only good for monk items and wis AC bonus, since you won't have enough points to get good dex.
pal/wizard - get an aasimar pal/sorc instead. this way you keep upgrading cha throughout the game, nad get insane saves and bonus spells. you don't need more than 2 pal levels, so not being able to multiclass freely is not a problem. your clerics will handle the undead turning, and the tanking pal/ftr can renove deseases.
a couple of your chars will have a good cha, which means you can spread the dialog skills around, or just focus on a "PR person" (the pal/sorc is an exellent candidate her) to handle all your diplomacy/bluff/intimidation reqs.
now for your partie's rogue.
the way i see it, there are two roles a rogue has outside of combat - a scout and a trapmaster/lockmaster. thes don't necessarily have to be done by the same char. in fact it is better to have two chars do it, as each role combines naturally with one of two combat roles rogues are good at - the sneak attacker/magekiller and the sniper.
your monk/rogue is a natural for the scout+magekiller task. i had a char in this role in every party i had, with varius builds. i didn't like the rogue (low levles) / monk XX, because, well... a monk is just better if he's a single class char. in HoF this build can work better.
one build i suggest here is the pinnacle of my IWD multiclassing attempts:
human, str16 dex18 con14 int12 wiz10 cha6 rogue3/monk3/ranger2/fighter8 (end of normal mode) which becomes rogue3/monk3/ranger3/ftr10/wiz5 by the 30 levels XP cap, the 5th wizard (or specialist wizard) is taken at level 30, when the xP penalty does not matter. an alternative will be aslightly less martially-oriented ftr4/ran3/monk3/rogXX, human or tiefling. see this for some elaboratin.
now, the trapmaster/loksmith goes well with the sniper combat role. i've had different chars for this position, like a halfling ftr4/rogueXX and a drow ftrXX/rogueXX (who was the best,. if you want all of your chars to have monk or paladin levels, use the above build fore this role, and get a single-class monk or a monk with a couple of rogue levles (3 sems to do it) to do your scouting and magekilling.
For Mirk's suggestion of pally2/sorc you might as well take a level of ranger at character level 30 as that last sorc level (compare level 27 and 28 sorcerer) impacts nothing but an additional spell slot at level 1. No additional spells or higher level spell slots. You get better hp table too.
Life is an adventure
why ranger? he's not gonna duel-weild... i've never got so far advanced in levels, but i guess jermiah is right - you may want to get another level in a non-sorc class. i think ranger is not the best here:
fighter: an extra free feat
wizard: an extra free feat + ability to use wizard-only items (HoF cloack of mystra - not too shabby) + an important ability to scribe scrolls (i find it sometimes frustrating when i get a spellcraft notice above an enemy spellcaster "casting spell:XXXX" and i don't remember the details, and none of my chars know this spell - i like to know what effects to enticipate, that's what spellcraft is for!)
fighter: an extra free feat
wizard: an extra free feat + ability to use wizard-only items (HoF cloack of mystra - not too shabby) + an important ability to scribe scrolls (i find it sometimes frustrating when i get a spellcraft notice above an enemy spellcaster "casting spell:XXXX" and i don't remember the details, and none of my chars know this spell - i like to know what effects to enticipate, that's what spellcraft is for!)
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Originally posted by Mirk
why ranger? he's not gonna duel-weild... i've never got so far advanced in levels, but i guess jermiah is right - you may want to get another level in a non-sorc class. i think ranger is not the best here:
fighter: an extra free feat
wizard: an extra free feat + ability to use wizard-only items (HoF cloack of mystra - not too shabby) + an important ability to scribe scrolls (i find it sometimes frustrating when i get a spellcraft notice above an enemy spellcaster "casting spell:XXXX" and i don't remember the details, and none of my chars know this spell - i like to know what effects to enticipate, that's what spellcraft is for!)
Oh yeah, that's right! I actually forgot about that, to tell the truth.
Are you thinking that the Male Drow Paladin of Mystra is a good idea, then?
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
i think if your'e "locked" on drow, pal/wiz is not a bad idea. if, however, you're ready to condider other races, i suggest an aasimar, wild elf or a human pal/sorc. he can srill have enough INT to get the skills he needs, but buffing CHA (which is easier then buffing INT) makes him a better caster, AND give him better saves. plus, i just prefer sorcerers...
oh, you can still take the two pal levels in Paladin of Mystra, for that "Arcane Paladin" flavour... (not that an arcane paldin would taste any different than any other paladin )
oh, you can still take the two pal levels in Paladin of Mystra, for that "Arcane Paladin" flavour... (not that an arcane paldin would taste any different than any other paladin
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Galuf the Dwarf
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Originally posted by Mirk
i think if your'e "locked" on drow, pal/wiz is not a bad idea. if, however, you're ready to condider other races, i suggest an aasimar, wild elf or a human pal/sorc. he can srill have enough INT to get the skills he needs, but buffing CHA (which is easier then buffing INT) makes him a better caster, AND give him better saves. plus, i just prefer sorcerers...
oh, you can still take the two pal levels in Paladin of Mystra, for that "Arcane Paladin" flavour... (not that an arcane paldin would taste any different than any other paladin
I don't know why, but a Sorc (including a vanilla one) in this game doesn't seem like a class I can play. I don't want to bring some stats too low in order to get a good spread of points between Cha, Dex, Con, and Int, so I find it easier to play a Wizard instead.
For Edition 3.5 (mainly in the Temple of Elemental Evil game), I've found it equally as easy to play a Wizard or Sorceror since players are allow to roll stats.
My idea for beginning stats for a Drow Pal/Wiz are as follows:
10 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
18 Int
10 Wis
12 Cha (initial bonus)
The reason I went with 10 Str and Wis is that he will be focusing on casting arcane spells, and not melee damage or divine spells. You only get 16 initial stats points to allocate upon character creation, and so you have to be careful where you place every point, especially if you want the characters you create to survive.
Comments, anyone?
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
due to the race bonuses, drow (and aasimar) get 20 pts to distribute at char creation, not 16, like humans.
so, you could do a char like:
str 10
dex 14
con 10
int 20
wis 8
cha 18
he'll make an exellent pal2/wiz!
comments:
dex above 14 is not necessary, as he'll always have to low an AC to use as such, and he'll have mirror image in every fight that counts. 14 is for the rapid shot feat only, actually.
con 10 - he'll have enough skillpoints to max concentration, and he'll be mostly casting spells outside of combat anyway, or with protection spells on
wis 8 – since you’re a paladin, an extra 2 points in cha will increase all saves by +1, while an extra 2 points in wis will only increase will saves. In fact, you can have a “min-maxing” version of this char like:
str 10
dex 14
con 14
int 20
wis 3
cha 19
without any negative effects (due to low wis) that I’m aware of. Just use +1/+3 cha items readily available, as well as eagle’s splendour to boost saves even further!
so, you could do a char like:
str 10
dex 14
con 10
int 20
wis 8
cha 18
he'll make an exellent pal2/wiz!
comments:
dex above 14 is not necessary, as he'll always have to low an AC to use as such, and he'll have mirror image in every fight that counts. 14 is for the rapid shot feat only, actually.
con 10 - he'll have enough skillpoints to max concentration, and he'll be mostly casting spells outside of combat anyway, or with protection spells on
wis 8 – since you’re a paladin, an extra 2 points in cha will increase all saves by +1, while an extra 2 points in wis will only increase will saves. In fact, you can have a “min-maxing” version of this char like:
str 10
dex 14
con 14
int 20
wis 3
cha 19
without any negative effects (due to low wis) that I’m aware of. Just use +1/+3 cha items readily available, as well as eagle’s splendour to boost saves even further!
It really matters little what class you pick at level 30 I suppose for an aasimr pally2/sorcx27.
I just went with ranger since it is cool to see the character zipping around with the Golden Heart and the Holy Avenger. By that time, you should have picked all the spellcasting feats that character is ever going to get anyway.
for an aasimr pally2/sorcx27.I just went with ranger since it is cool to see the character zipping around with the Golden Heart and the Holy Avenger. By that time, you should have picked all the spellcasting feats that character is ever going to get anyway.
Life is an adventure
Originally posted by Mirk
why ranger? he's not gonna duel-weild... i've never got so far advanced in levels, but i guess jermiah is right - you may want to get another level in a non-sorc class. i think ranger is not the best here:
fighter: an extra free feat
wizard: an extra free feat + ability to use wizard-only items (HoF cloack of mystra - not too shabby) + an important ability to scribe scrolls (i find it sometimes frustrating when i get a spellcraft notice above an enemy spellcaster "casting spell:XXXX" and i don't remember the details, and none of my chars know this spell - i like to know what effects to enticipate, that's what spellcraft is for!)
Actually developing spellcraft also allows your character to pick elemental based feats (aegis of rime etc). If your character is not a wizard (to scribe scrolls) or plan to take elemental based feats or you don't feel the need to identify spells the enemy are casting, then you can leave this skill alone. Which is why I never bothered with my bard since her spell picks do no elemental damage (the resistances aren't that big a selling point to waste a feat) but used her skill points to develop her conversation based skills first besides concentration.
Life is an adventure