Silly Bioware, Et al...

ILL WILL · Post by **ILL WILL** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:34 pm

Are there no more games like the Baldur's Gate series to ever be seen again?

Are all future computer RPGs to be of the ilk of either Neverwinter Nights or Everquest?

Everywhere I look for a new game, all I see is "Check out this online rolepaying game!" If I see one more "So and So does an interview on their upcompin MMORPG" I'm gonna vomit!

Do Bioware and its counterparts not realize that the root of the success that the Baldur's Gat series had was how it enveloped players in the same way a book did? Sure the graphics were neat for the time and the mechanics were brilliant...

But I'd argue the most endearing aspects were how engrossing it was! The NPCs were there with you, the world was huge and one could go on forever traveling about, meeting new people and seeing new places!

I look around and see no hope that something like the Baldur's Gate series, with its incredible setting and fantastic, non-linear storyline, will ever be seen again.

Tell me, please, that someone knows of something coming up that fits this bill?

Why does no one want to update the Dragonlance Trilogy? Wouldn't that be fantastic to play out the War of the Lance in the huge world of Krynn?

Or a long, dark campaign in Ravenloft!

I have no interest in playing online RPGs. I know there are more like me. They don't feel as engrossing as BG did. Often they feel awkward and silly.

Please tell me if you know of an upcoming product that I should watch out for!

I eagerly await such news.

V/R
Will

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:29 pm

AMEN!

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:36 pm

Well said ILL WILL

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:42 pm

I agree - while on-line games are nice for interacting, they suffer from lack of story depth, IMO.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:53 pm

lol... nobody has yet to answere the guy's question...not that I'm gonna do it though but it just struck me as funny

@ill will: no I haven't seen anything that can compare to the BG series, but it's bound to come simetime.... NWN looked promising but it didn't quite make it IMO...

der Moench · Post by **der Moench** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:08 pm

I agree wholeheartedly. Lucky for me no such games are being made, though - I've made a resolution not to game anymore!

Peace.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:23 pm

Unfortunately, with the emphasis on MMORPG, there isn't much story and I suppose as much role playing as you desire on the server on which you play. However, a lack of a compelling story certainly detracts from creating an immersing environment. The whole scene doesn't interest me much. Tried to get into NWN, but really couldn't. Argyle sounds fun, but I've haven't read through all the background info present to actually make a character and contribute significantly.

Now, regarding the DL chronicles, that would be fun. To have a character in the realms and carve your own niche whether it be for the greater good of Ansalon or joining the minions of Tahkisis and actually have draconians at your disposal. Plus, you'd get to interact with all the companions of the Lance, although it wouldn't be true to the story to actually have them in your party.

It's kind of funny, the paths various developers have traveled since BG2 on creating new CRPGs, both single and multiplayer alike. GB can't be the only site which has praised the NPCs as one of the reasons the game was superb, and yet no other games have been developed with such attention paid to that element. All things being cyclical, eventually game developers will realize that the benchmark on which all CRPGs are measured, is a game that's almost 4 years old. Morrowind, Dungeon Seige, Temple of Elemental Evil, and IWD2 all remain unfinished on my computer. Never play POR2, however, I did finish Arcanum. And for the record, Morrowind is a great game, I just couldn't get it, I really like the idea of companions joining the cause.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:18 pm

You might want to check out Anito, from Anino Entertainment: 2D isometric CRPG, set in the Phillipines in the 17th century--but with magic working. Poor animation, very good game.

New, too.

Also extremely good is King of Dragon Pass, a curious strategy/RPG hybrid which I've been pushing hard in the Games Discussion forum. It's a product of A-Sharp, and can be found on their website. Their attempt to market the game exclusively through the net was a mistake, but it's great fun.

ILL WILL · Post by **ILL WILL** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:48 pm

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
It's kind of funny, the paths various developers have traveled since BG2 on creating new CRPGs, both single and multiplayer alike. GB can't be the only site which has praised the NPCs as one of the reasons the game was superb, and yet no other games have been developed with such attention paid to that element. All things being cyclical, eventually game developers will realize that the benchmark on which all CRPGs are measured, is a game that's almost 4 years old. Morrowind, Dungeon Seige, Temple of Elemental Evil, and IWD2 all remain unfinished on my computer. Never play POR2, however, I did finish Arcanum. And for the record, Morrowind is a great game, I just couldn't get it, I really like the idea of companions joining the cause.

That is also interesting to me. I'd be willing to gamble, as a developer, that if someone were to take today's graphic and technological capability and align it with a game in the style of the Baldur's Gate story, it would blow all these other games out of the water.

I am much like you and the above posts. I played about six or so hours of NWN before I lost interest. And even IWD2, with its updated use of the rules and all the neat things I could do with my characters, did not hold my attention long. Something was missing.

Four months ago, I stopped by the game store and looked around for anything that would grab my interest. The funny thing is I wound up buying BG, TOTSC, BG2, and TOB all over again. I had a blast playing them again as well!

I do hope someone pitches such an idea to a good developer. I know we would all buy it. How could we not?

BTW, is Black Isle out of business now?

V/R
Will

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:58 pm

Interplay has pretty much closed the doors to Black Isle. I don't know if they still have one or two 'members' for whatever reason (as they had when it all first happened), but it's a given that they won't be making any more games.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:00 pm

I thought a handful of black isle employees had defected to feargus urquharts' obsidian entertainment. There were some interviews here a while back on page 1 of GB.

and that black isle was done.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:07 pm

Have to agree with all said above, though as a Macie, I'm finding all this out about 1-2 yrs after the rest of the free world. For what it is worth, i blame it entirely on the AD&D 3rd edition rules. Haven't P&P D&D'ed in years but was quite happy with 2nd ed rules. IMO, 3rd edition is too flexible and allows a single character to have a broad range of abilities and less dependence on other party characters. As such, it encourages solo PC development and reduced inter party interactions. I could be entirely full of smelly stuff, but my one exposure to 3rd Ed in NWN convinced me of the fall of the Party. IWD was fun if you developed individual NPCs and used one's imagination.

Not entirely sure what a 2D isometric CRPG is <EDIT - Hi Fable>, but I'm not going to MMORPG. I thumb my nose at MMORPG developers and waggle my Mac in a depreciatiing manner

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:04 am

Originally posted by Grendel
Not entirely sure what a 2D isometric CRPG is

an isometric CRPG is an Computer Role Playing Game where the gamer looks at his characters from a fixed angle above (like BG, IWD and most RTSes). I think there even us a specific angle that's always used (can't recall which though...). Basically what you get with an isometric game is "faked 3D" with a fixed camera position.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:41 am

Originally posted by fable
<snip>
Also extremely good is King of Dragon Pass, a curious strategy/RPG hybrid which I've been pushing hard in the Games Discussion forum. <snip>

No really? - Hadn't noticed you doing that

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:17 am

I think there even us a specific angle that's always used (can't recall which though...).

It changes from game to game. I reviewed a recent title from Slovakia entitled Empire of Magic, which had an isometric view that was much nearer the vertical axis. The old Ultima 7 games were slightly more vertical, too. But the Bioware/BIS games all use one angle, which is why it's easy to assume, given their popularity, that this is a norm.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:47 am

I think MMorph are not so cool. The idea of a chat with fighting and level ups, along with a few things to to as jobs are not quite what I expected and demmanded.

BG, Fallout (wonder why nobody mentioned it here), IWD (1, even though with a not so cool storyline) are fantasy worlds.

SoA were just the kicker - never seen other games modded like it. Just awesome to think that I'm playing it since I've bought it (+1 and a half year) and the storyline never seem to cease, the fun of challenging something in a different way just compesates for the time I spent here.

NWN? I've left it unfinished when I was at the last chapter. Why?

Missed Jan jokes, Jon Irenicus appeal and the dragons who seemed to live, not just to stand there and kick yer buttocks cause they are tough, but mindless.

ILL WILL · Post by **ILL WILL** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:56 am

In any case, I remain hopeful that we will one day again see a game like Baldur's Gate, whether 3D or otherwise.

ILL WILL · Post by **ILL WILL** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:02 pm

Originally posted by Luis Antonio
I think MMorph are not so cool. The idea of a chat with fighting and level ups, along with a few things to to as jobs are not quite what I expected and demmanded.

BG, Fallout (wonder why nobody mentioned it here), IWD (1, even though with a not so cool storyline) are fantasy worlds.

SoA were just the kicker - never seen other games modded like it. Just awesome to think that I'm playing it since I've bought it (+1 and a half year) and the storyline never seem to cease, the fun of challenging something in a different way just compesates for the time I spent here.

NWN? I've left it unfinished when I was at the last chapter. Why?

Missed Jan jokes, Jon Irenicus appeal and the dragons who seemed to live, not just to stand there and kick yer buttocks cause they are tough, but mindless.

That is exactly what I'm talking about.

I remember several times playing through the BG series and saying outloud "Wow! This may be my favorite game ever." Examples of what I loved about it (in no particular order):

Saemon Havarian
Jon Irenicus
Minsc
Jahiera, Viconia, Et Al.
Hell
Elminster
Sailing to distant shores
Spellhold
That tired, cynical Beholder who was sick of guarding stuff
Brage and Bassilus
Intra-party banter
Bodhi
The wilderness
The ka-zillion types of monsters and badguys
Gorion
Boo
Nashkell and the Nashkell Fair
Spells
The storyline

The list goes on, as they say.
I mean, in BG, I was there. It was a trip.

Objulen · Post by **Objulen** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:13 pm

Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate I & II, Fallout I & II- all excellent single player RPG's with engrossing stories. I think the reason more people don't play MMORPG's is the lack of any real story beyond kill the monster, get the loot, level up. The problem is scope -- supporting that many people in a dynamic environment with actual player driven plots would involve actual role playing, not the popular hack and slash, and it would involve giving more power to players, such as allowing them to gain political power and what not.

ILL WILL · Post by **ILL WILL** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:22 pm

Question:

Having never really played too much in an online environment, I am curious about the atmosphere. E.g., player dialogue: is it consistent with the genre generally?

For example, let's say another online player is named, um, Michael. And let's say Michael greets you. Does it come out generally as:

MICHAEL: "Hail Traveler, I would speak with you."

or

MICHAEL: "Hey dude wuz up lol lmao iirc imho etc?"

Meaning to ask: do online players generally add to or detract from the environment?