persuasion skill vs. affect mind

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:23 am

do they lead to the same dialog options? i.e. if i want to use my skillpoints elsewhere, but still get those options, is affect mind going to do it for me?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:10 am

Don't know how it works for sure, but I got the feeling that they are two different things, because you have separate dialogue choices for "Force Persuade" (Dominate/Affect mind) and "Persuade" (Persuade skill). It could be, however, that they are necessarily the same thing, except the powers give such considerable bonuses to the skill itself that they are left separate (you should always try to use the regular Persuade first, though, because many instances of Force Persuade give DS points).

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:40 am

They're completely different and offer different dialog options, which in turn produce different results. One cannot always be used in place of the other. Affect mind doesn't grant you a bonus to your normal persuade skill.

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:31 pm

I know it's not a bonus per se and they stay separate. What I meant was that I was wondering whether the Affect Mind option actually works like a boosted Persuasion (boosted so much as to give different choices), but it was more just "one of those questions". It would be much easier for the programmers to set the options for each char (then again, I'm really into creating character builds for NWN right now, and there are so many tiny intricacies there, I see nothing but intricacies everywhere now

).

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:30 pm

Nah, it's not like persuasion at all. Think of it as a totally different skill that produces completely different results... the sort of differences you'd expect between bluff and diplomacy. Often affect mind will work where conventional persuasion is 100% impossible, and other times you'll get a better result persuading them normally than you would if you used affect mind.

nermal · Post by **nermal** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:59 pm

i have play the game as a dark jedi and took force persuasion. there are many occasions to use it and bastilla will tell you off lots when you use the power to not pay for things etc. you will get DS points for using it that way.

when you are a good guy you will not want that so do not pick it up, if you focus on the skill there are many occasions to use that for good, persuading people to turn from the dark path etc.

think of the power as you forcing your will on people. dark.
think of the skill as your natural charimsa and charm winning people over to your way of thinking.

i know this is just a game but that was the best way i could think of getting the idea over.

sorry for the length os this one.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:07 pm

Originally posted by nermal
i have play the game as a dark jedi and took force persuasion. there are many occasions to use it and bastilla will tell you off lots when you use the power to not pay for things etc. you will get DS points for using it that way.

when you are a good guy you will not want that so do not pick it up,

Why not? I played a lightsider, and found force persuasion very useful. It allowed me to move the few skill points I had every level to Treat Injury, instead of Persuasion. And while some events will give you darkside points for using FP, most won't.

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:39 pm

so fable, you think it will be enough just to get thoseFPs? i'm going to play a Scout/Guardian, so the Persuasion skill will waint untill the Jedi level anyway...

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:04 pm

There are a couple of events when you're pre-Jedi that do a check to Persuasion; whether you want it or not, is up to you.

SPOILERS...
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I'm not positive, but I think the two people holed up at the bottom of Manaan's ocean also do a Persuasion check, and don't respond positively to FP, at all.

So I would give perhaps 3-4 points to Persuasion, and get a level of FP when available. Just my POV.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:18 pm

The two scientists in the kolto station will respond to affect mind.

If you're half-roleplaying then affect mind is good to have. Totally unworthwhile for a power build, though. That applies whether you're dark or light.

AVENGER · Post by **AVENGER** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:06 pm

Ya, force persuade and persuade are two different things bringing in different results. Pretty much persuade has the best outcomes because you didn't force them to do anything. While if you force them sometimes it will get DS points so if you go DS then use force persuade pretty much everytime.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:42 pm

Originally posted by Armisael
The two scientists in the kolto station will respond to affect mind.

But if you fail your check after trying it, they'll never believe you. Persuade is safer, in this instance.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:26 am

There's no skill check with affect mind; it's not a skill, either it works or it doesn't. If you've seen affect mind fail, then you must need dominate mind to get it to work.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:40 am

Originally posted by Armisael
There's no skill check with affect mind; it's not a skill, either it works or it doesn't. If you've seen affect mind fail, then you must need dominate mind to get it to work.

Thanks for the correction, though that still doesn't affect my basic point. I've tried affect mind on the bottom of the ocean in Manaan; it failed; and the pair of scientists in hiding wouldn't listen to me from then on. Went basic to my last save, tried Persuade, and that worked.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:04 am

Fair enough. I thought I'd had it work, but I probably had dominate instead.

InfiniteNature · Post by **InfiniteNature** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:05 pm

Force persuade works more of the time, but persuade doesn't get dark side points.

Spoiler

Force persude is almost completely useless against certain characters, like trying to Force Persuade That prime Twyliek on Korriban, putting persuade points is better because you can convince her to do different things, even go light.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:52 pm

Originally posted by InfiniteNature
Force persuade works more of the time, but persuade doesn't get dark side points.

Mind effect doesn't always get DSPs when used selfishly--in fact, the raison d'etre behind whether it gets DSPs on any given occasion is something that eludes me. It doesn't follow any logical progression.