Idiots vs. Brainers

JArlaxle · Post by **JArlaxle** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:24 pm

Like your quote aegis.

A fighter would win, he would cut off the mages spell with a melee

Dekster · Post by **Dekster** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:46 pm

I thing the mage won't survive if the Fighter has Tuigan bow (3 shots per round) with Arrows of detonation.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:50 pm

Of course, the fighter still can't hit what he can't see. No way to dispel invis. Mage can walk off a distance, use farsight/wizard eye and cast spells from beyond fighter's line of sight. If fighter hastes self, wiz simply goes invis. and waits.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:51 pm

And how will this fighter hit an invisible mage with a bow or sword.

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(I would betray the world before i let the world betray me.) Chao Chao 192 a.d.

[This message has been edited by Weasel (edited 01-01-2001).]

Dekster · Post by **Dekster** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:00 pm

Originally posted by Weasel:
And how will this fighter hit an invisible mage with a bow or sword.

If the mage has all of your protect spell cast on, before the batle begins. That no way of fighter win.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:05 pm

The staff of the magi gives you improved invisibility by just equip it.

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(I would betray the world before i let the world betray me.) Chao Chao 192 a.d.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:09 pm

Invis would have cast time of zero with Robe of Vecna. Can't interrupt.

It's been said several times, with spell-triggers, sequencers, and contingencies, mage wins.

I still say it depends on the player more than on the character.

I have to laugh. I find myself defending the mage side even though I like to play the fighters and thieves better. Go figure?!?

Dekster · Post by **Dekster** » Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:25 pm

Originally posted by Rail:
Invis would have cast time of zero with Robe of Vecna. Can't interrupt.

It's been said several times, with spell-triggers, sequencers, and contingencies, mage wins.

I still say it depends on the player more than on the character.

I have to laugh. I find myself defending the mage side even though I like to play the fighters and thieves better. Go figure?!?

I Agree with you, depends more the player than the character, sometimes the place where the batle will occur benefit more one then other.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 1:04 am

quote:
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Originally posted by Dekster:

If the mage has all of your protect spell cast on, before the batle begins. That no way of fighter win.

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We are asuming there is no time before the battle. It's just two PC's, a large room lentgh's apart, and with a bunch of different variables.

I must say, when I first started this thread, I had no clue that it would generate such feed back...

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Courage is Bravery,
Bravery is Courage,
Children are Flamable

mikel · Post by **mikel** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 1:35 am

In the Computer Games the mages are more powerful than in the AD&D rpg. Just one example: Most of the spells need material components and these components are somtimes rare and / or expensive. The all favored stoneskine by example needs diamond dust worth 1000 gp, and the dust is consumed.
How many mages have that spell in their travelling spell book (These books are really BIG and heavy and have only limited number of spells written).
A whole bunch like this which makes the tactic and combat in the computer game different to the pen&paper version.
Therefor I don't know if the experience and all the results of pen & paper ad&d also applies to a combat mage vs fighter.

But severeal years ago the ad&d championship tournaments did not only apply to (pre-generated) parties solving quests, but there were also several deathmatch sections.
I did't joined, but I monitored some of these games. And even if it's perhaps more fun to play a mage with all his possibilities, the highest ranking member there played fighter or fighter subclasses.

muscles won over brain

I assume the question if the same applies in the computer game will be answered if the NWN come out. I'm sure there will be very soon kindof deathmatch scenario available, and everyone who's really eager to find out if his tactic is good compared to other can test.

Elenias Nal'nair · Post by **Elenias Nal'nair** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 4:06 pm

yeah and it'll be no time till we have this Diablo-bullshit going on on Fearun (you wanna mess with my level 137 sorcerer...heh?). But this is inevitable. Let's say this : If the folk wishes a battle pit so there shall be one. And since this is called Death-match the losing character is wiped from the system (world etc.) no backup, no copy, no reload...
...just a thought.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:10 pm

Yet another part to the equation. Let's say their are no enchanted weapons or armour. So, any boosts to speed, spellcasting and the such would be null. In other words, regular weaponery. With the decrease in spell casting speed, the fighter could get close enough to wreak some serious damage. At the same time, it would force the mage to rely on some lower level spells that cast quickly....

What say all you people againest Blockheads?

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Courage is Bravery,
Bravery is Courage,
Children are Flamable

magusg · Post by **magusg** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:31 pm

I'm sure many, including me, have improved invisibility set already as a contingency. Therefore I would be unprepared yet could still get away to cast some more spells. If the room is big enough, I could run away, summon some Mordekain's Swords, and laugh at the fighter as he flails helplessly on them (immune to weapon damage). With no enchanted weapon to deal elemental damage, he would eventually die to the horde of magical flying swords

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Magus, mighty sorcerer, and summoner of hordes of...magical flying swords

magusg · Post by **magusg** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:32 pm

I'm sure many, including me, have improved invisibility set already as a contingency. Therefore I would be unprepared yet could still get away to cast some more spells. If the room is big enough, I could run away, summon some Mordekain's Swords, and laugh at the fighter as he flails helplessly on them (immune to weapon damage). With no enchanted weapon to deal elemental damage, he would eventually fall to the horde of magical flying swords

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Magus, mighty sorcerer, and summoner of hordes of...magical flying swords

magusg · Post by **magusg** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:33 pm

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to do that.

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Magus, mighty sorcerer, and summoner of hordes of...magical flying swords

The Nutless One · Post by **The Nutless One** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 6:37 pm

Magic Missile, not only disrupts spells, but its faster than arrows, no chance of misses, and halts the other guy in his tracks, for about 2 seconds I think, while the "stun" animation is loading. So you can just MM, run, Invis, Run off to a corner and prepare, come back, unleash hell.

BTW, anyone know how many HD a fighter at lvl 19 would have ? Given 18 con, and all that. Because I think a capped mage, with 3 mm contingencied would deal 15-75 damge. 3 Fireballs deals a hideous amount. 3 Skulltraps even more.

Elenias Nal'nair · Post by **Elenias Nal'nair** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 7:04 pm

ups, mea culpa!

[This message has been edited by Elenias Nal'nair (edited 01-02-2001).]

Elenias Nal'nair · Post by **Elenias Nal'nair** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 7:04 pm

simple
Fighter:156
Barbarian:174

Alienbob · Post by **Alienbob** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 7:13 pm

What about a fighter/thief or just a thief. they could get right next to the mage and get the first hit. not to mention the backstab multiplier. at max level they could do some real damage.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:51 pm

Good thing about the thief is that, with cloak of non-detection, true seeing will not reveal them when they are hiding in shadows.

Without any magical equip, however, the fighter is at more of a disadvantage.

1st spell from mage is some form of invisibility. Fighter can't attack. Mage walks off and prepares out of fighter's line of sight. Fighter has nothing to prepare.

If this is fought in a wide open area, mage has the advantage. If it is fought in a closet, then the fighter usually wins.