Have you guys seen this yet?
I thought it was going to be corny, but when my friend Kelly took me to watch it, I left thinking "Wow!"
Go see it if you haven't. I enjoyed it a lot.
If you haven't seen it, or you intend to see it, don't read below; there are a couple of theories I have about the movie that I'm gonna discuss.
SPOILER (Basically I'm gonna pretend I'm a doctor here).
The zombies aren't actually the walking dead like they used to be (in the older movies). They seem to be infected hosts, rather. Essentially, I think that the epidemic causing all the havoc is a virus. It behaves like a virus in that it spreads through salivo-hemoglobin contact (like that which occurs in biting) and is invasive. It also seems like the virus is designed to spread. I mean this as opposed to a bacterial infection which spreads incident to being an organism. A virus is actually (while not being sentient) "concerned" with promulgating itself.
This theory I have that the infection is actually a virus is supported by the fact that the zombies are not concerned with eating (as they were in the old movies). They are not actually interested in feeding themselves. It appears that once they have bitten and successfully infected a victim (by successfully infected I mean the victim undergoes a death-rebirth transformation that I will discuss later), they completely lose interest in the him. From this I infer that the virus spreads itself to new hosts and does nothing to sustain its hosts in the long term.
Further support for this notion comes from the observation that the zombies ignore animals. They do not attack them for infection or for food. This may be because the virus affects only humans and as such is concerned (again not in the sentient sense) only with humans.
The death-rebirth transformation seems to work like this:
1. A victim is bitten and becomes infected. Whether multiple bites cause the infection or just one doesn't seem determinative.
2. For the virus to progress in an infected host, it must spread to the brain, where it interacts in some way. The total time between the point of infection and the point where the victim "dies" seems to vary. One lady lasted five hours after multiple bites before succumbing (of note perhaps was her heavy weight), while others would "die" within minutes of infection. This may be a metabolic phenomenon.
3. The victim’s body then dies in the sense that his heart stops, but it is not apparent that the brain ever ceases functioning (in normal cases of death, brain activity in humans can last for minutes after cardiac cessation). This is where my theory kicks in: the virus actually takes over the brain and begins operating the human in some sort of parasite-host relationship.
In any case, the time between cardiac-arrest and the time when the victim awakes as a zombie only seems to take between 10-20 seconds.
Significant trauma to the brain seems to be the only thing that slays the zombies, further supporting the viral theory wherein control of the host is from the invaded brain.
It would be interesting to watch an infected host over time. Because the body seems to continue to operate as a normal human (they move as quickly as we do, and appear as strong and coordinated), but does nothing to sustain itself, I hypothesize that eventually the zombies will die by themselves (as in 28 Days Later). This is chiefly for two reasons:
1. The body seems to undergo all the effects of death because it performs little of the functions required for preservation (circulation, aerobic processes, etc). So essentially, decomposition and the like will destroy the host body fairly quickly.
2. The zombies will starve. They do not seem to have the interest or capacity to eat or sustain themselves. This leads one to the notion that the virus is short-termed and self-destructive (such as is the case with certain flesh-eating viruses), relative to more sophisticated viruses (such as HIV) that lend themselves to long term survival through their interaction with their hosts.
In dealing with these creatures, then, my preliminary recommendation is to "wait it out." As per the above, my interim understanding is that the virus will eventually destroy all hosts before it has the chance to adapt itself for further self-promulgation.
Dawn Of The Dead
I've seen it and liked it, too, but I'd only recommend seeing it if you can stand all the blood and gore and stuff. But if you like zombie movies, this ones pretty good 
If I asked, would you answer? Its your problem. Its a deep, deep problem. I have no way to ask about that... I have no elegant way of stepping into your heart without tracking in filth. So I will wait. Someday, when you want to tell me, tell me then. -Bleach
-
InfiniteNature
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:51 am
- Location: In the infinite abyss, between dreams and nightmar
- Contact:
I've been successively inured to these type of movies over time, but this movie actually managed to scare the feck out of me, watch it its actually better then Romeros old classic Dawn of Dead.
Actually I thought they were still undead, I mean you look at the stage of decomposition of some of them, and its apparent that they are still undead.
On the other hand some of zombies manage to go pretty fast for undead creatures, so maybe its still living to some degree, and even have some degree of autonomic responses, as well as a certain degree of memory.
Anybody ever read the Zombie Survival guide, I got it in humor section, but anyway its not bad for a zombie apocalypse lover.
But anyway, the virus scenario might work if it is a virus, I mean have you considered that maybe it might be bacterial in origin, in that case it might actually sustain the host, through a variety of chemical processes, it would also explain why zombies when amputated or severely damaged can still move, even to the point when there's only the head left, I mean a ordinary virus wouldn't be able to do that, A virus only really works when it has living DNA or RNA to rewrite. On the other hand maybe it is a bacteria virus combination, in which a bacteriophage(virus infects bacteria) uses the bacteria for a host which itself uses humans for a host, the virus would live in the bacteria while periodically destroying a cell and then spreading out infecting human cells, which are changed, after a certain period of time these cells spread, but if to much damage occurs the virus goes back to its original host the bacteria and then remains dormant until the next human host comes along.
Another thing, for it to spread initially it would have to be quasi airborne, otherwise it simply wouldn't have enough biomass of people to infect enough people through other transmission vectors such as touch, saliva, etc.
Okay okay I know I put way to much thought into this stuff, guess I got monsters on the brain.
The safest spot you can be when zombie apocalypse comes, hmmm, high up in a skycraper, suitably blocking and collapsing the stairs of course, but in principle if you interconnected the buildings, and started growing crops on top of the buildings, you could survive for a fair amount of time, even if the zombies numbered in the millions.
Another safe spot would be various islands, again you would have to clear the islands of zombies already there, but once done it would be a place safe from the undeads, of course you would have to protect against other humans who are infected.
The surest way to kill a zombie is of course a shot to the head, but I wonder if there isn't way to poison the thing, I mean in principle it is running on some sort of chemical processes of some sort, then it should be possible to design a chemical toxin which would disrupt the replication of the virus(Ala protease inhibitors), or alternatively simply kill the thing by inhibiting the chemical processes which the disease uses to move the undead corpse around.
That is of course if a zombie functions according to conventional physics, if they don't then it might not work, actually there's no reason why a shot to the head would work if its supernatural.
And yes again I watch way to many movies.
Actually I thought they were still undead, I mean you look at the stage of decomposition of some of them, and its apparent that they are still undead.
On the other hand some of zombies manage to go pretty fast for undead creatures, so maybe its still living to some degree, and even have some degree of autonomic responses, as well as a certain degree of memory.
Anybody ever read the Zombie Survival guide, I got it in humor section, but anyway its not bad for a zombie apocalypse lover.
But anyway, the virus scenario might work if it is a virus, I mean have you considered that maybe it might be bacterial in origin, in that case it might actually sustain the host, through a variety of chemical processes, it would also explain why zombies when amputated or severely damaged can still move, even to the point when there's only the head left, I mean a ordinary virus wouldn't be able to do that, A virus only really works when it has living DNA or RNA to rewrite. On the other hand maybe it is a bacteria virus combination, in which a bacteriophage(virus infects bacteria) uses the bacteria for a host which itself uses humans for a host, the virus would live in the bacteria while periodically destroying a cell and then spreading out infecting human cells, which are changed, after a certain period of time these cells spread, but if to much damage occurs the virus goes back to its original host the bacteria and then remains dormant until the next human host comes along.
Another thing, for it to spread initially it would have to be quasi airborne, otherwise it simply wouldn't have enough biomass of people to infect enough people through other transmission vectors such as touch, saliva, etc.
Okay okay I know I put way to much thought into this stuff, guess I got monsters on the brain.
The safest spot you can be when zombie apocalypse comes, hmmm, high up in a skycraper, suitably blocking and collapsing the stairs of course, but in principle if you interconnected the buildings, and started growing crops on top of the buildings, you could survive for a fair amount of time, even if the zombies numbered in the millions.
Another safe spot would be various islands, again you would have to clear the islands of zombies already there, but once done it would be a place safe from the undeads, of course you would have to protect against other humans who are infected.
The surest way to kill a zombie is of course a shot to the head, but I wonder if there isn't way to poison the thing, I mean in principle it is running on some sort of chemical processes of some sort, then it should be possible to design a chemical toxin which would disrupt the replication of the virus(Ala protease inhibitors), or alternatively simply kill the thing by inhibiting the chemical processes which the disease uses to move the undead corpse around.
That is of course if a zombie functions according to conventional physics, if they don't then it might not work, actually there's no reason why a shot to the head would work if its supernatural.
And yes again I watch way to many movies.
"In Germany, they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the homosexuals and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a homosexual. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me--but by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.
-
RandomThug
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:00 am
- Location: Nowheresville
- Contact:
Ah, the memories. I was in the UK, and saw the original. Brighton, to be exact. Young and impressionable. Walking home through the park after that one, was one of the most scary experiences in my life....
I'm nor sure about this remake thingy. I saw the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and while it was a stylish, well made and creepy, it suffered from MTVittis. Every time you were presented with a well made and eerie set piece to take in, a female form in a too small tank top sort of hovered into view, obscuring it all.
I haven't seen DOTD yet, but it has to be really good to beat 28 Days Later in the "new zombie" competition.
I'm nor sure about this remake thingy. I saw the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and while it was a stylish, well made and creepy, it suffered from MTVittis. Every time you were presented with a well made and eerie set piece to take in, a female form in a too small tank top sort of hovered into view, obscuring it all.
I haven't seen DOTD yet, but it has to be really good to beat 28 Days Later in the "new zombie" competition.
I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde
Support bacteria, they're the only culture some people have!
Support bacteria, they're the only culture some people have!
-
Georgi
- Posts: 11288
- Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2001 10:00 pm
- Location: Can't wait to get on the road again...
- Contact:
Well, walking home through parks in Brighton is probably scary at the best of times...Originally posted by Moonbiter
Walking home through the park after that one, was one of the most scary experiences in my life....
Hence its appeal to the cinemagoing majority, perhaps?I'm nor sure about this remake thingy. I saw the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and while it was a stylish, well made and creepy, it suffered from MTVittis. Every time you were presented with a well made and eerie set piece to take in, a female form in a too small tank top sort of hovered into view, obscuring it all.
What's with the sudden zombie movie thing anyway? I don't plan to see DotD myself, the trailer looked pretty dire. Shaun of the Dead however, does look rather amusing.
If not scary. Who, me?!?
-
RandomThug
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:00 am
- Location: Nowheresville
- Contact:
I saw this sunday night...pretty cool and entertaining. glad i saw it in the theater. my roommate didn't really like it though..i think its cause she wasn't as excited as i was though since i have been reading about it online for sometime now....
did you stay through the credits and see the additional ending??
did you stay through the credits and see the additional ending??
Originally posted by InfiniteNature
I've been successively inured to these type of movies over time, but this movie actually managed to scare the feck out of me, watch it its actually better then Romeros old classic Dawn of Dead.
Actually I thought they were still undead, I mean you look at the stage of decomposition of some of them, and its apparent that they are still undead.
On the other hand some of zombies manage to go pretty fast for undead creatures, so maybe its still living to some degree, and even have some degree of autonomic responses, as well as a certain degree of memory.
Anybody ever read the Zombie Survival guide, I got it in humor section, but anyway its not bad for a zombie apocalypse lover.
But anyway, the virus scenario might work if it is a virus, I mean have you considered that maybe it might be bacterial in origin, in that case it might actually sustain the host, through a variety of chemical processes, it would also explain why zombies when amputated or severely damaged can still move, even to the point when there's only the head left, I mean a ordinary virus wouldn't be able to do that, A virus only really works when it has living DNA or RNA to rewrite. On the other hand maybe it is a bacteria virus combination, in which a bacteriophage(virus infects bacteria) uses the bacteria for a host which itself uses humans for a host, the virus would live in the bacteria while periodically destroying a cell and then spreading out infecting human cells, which are changed, after a certain period of time these cells spread, but if to much damage occurs the virus goes back to its original host the bacteria and then remains dormant until the next human host comes along.
Another thing, for it to spread initially it would have to be quasi airborne, otherwise it simply wouldn't have enough biomass of people to infect enough people through other transmission vectors such as touch, saliva, etc.
Okay okay I know I put way to much thought into this stuff, guess I got monsters on the brain.
The safest spot you can be when zombie apocalypse comes, hmmm, high up in a skycraper, suitably blocking and collapsing the stairs of course, but in principle if you interconnected the buildings, and started growing crops on top of the buildings, you could survive for a fair amount of time, even if the zombies numbered in the millions.
Another safe spot would be various islands, again you would have to clear the islands of zombies already there, but once done it would be a place safe from the undeads, of course you would have to protect against other humans who are infected.
The surest way to kill a zombie is of course a shot to the head, but I wonder if there isn't way to poison the thing, I mean in principle it is running on some sort of chemical processes of some sort, then it should be possible to design a chemical toxin which would disrupt the replication of the virus(Ala protease inhibitors), or alternatively simply kill the thing by inhibiting the chemical processes which the disease uses to move the undead corpse around.
That is of course if a zombie functions according to conventional physics, if they don't then it might not work, actually there's no reason why a shot to the head would work if its supernatural.
And yes again I watch way to many movies.
These are all good points. I like the chemical idea a lot.
Re: Ehem.
Then there's this idea. The idea of the end of mankind, regardless of what you do.
I have problems with this idea for two reasons:
1. Why can they be killed then? If there's no way to survive, what's the point of allowing us to defeat them in combat, which we can.
2. It is against our (human) nature to accept defeat. We have made it this far against a lot of odds simply because we refuse to accpt extinction.
Originally posted by RandomThug
You all seem to miss the point. There is no way to survive, it is not a virus nor a bacteria. The beings are evil, they have no purpose other than to kill. HELL.
Then there's this idea. The idea of the end of mankind, regardless of what you do.
I have problems with this idea for two reasons:
1. Why can they be killed then? If there's no way to survive, what's the point of allowing us to defeat them in combat, which we can.
2. It is against our (human) nature to accept defeat. We have made it this far against a lot of odds simply because we refuse to accpt extinction.
Originally posted by soundoff
I saw this sunday night...pretty cool and entertaining. glad i saw it in the theater. my roommate didn't really like it though..i think its cause she wasn't as excited as i was though since i have been reading about it online for sometime now....
did you stay through the credits and see the additional ending??
Yeah it was real grim.
Re: Re: Ehem.
Its to make you think you have a chance, and that makes it even worse when you finally realize how hopeless it really is
Originally posted by ILL WILL
1. Why can they be killed then? If there's no way to survive, what's the point of allowing us to defeat them in combat, which we can.
Its to make you think you have a chance, and that makes it even worse when you finally realize how hopeless it really is
If I asked, would you answer? Its your problem. Its a deep, deep problem. I have no way to ask about that... I have no elegant way of stepping into your heart without tracking in filth. So I will wait. Someday, when you want to tell me, tell me then. -Bleach
Re: Re: Re: Ehem.
Eeeew. That's particularly nasty and in keeping with the central theme of hell: hoplessness.
ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE and all that.
Originally posted by Zelgadis
Its to make you think you have a chance, and that makes it even worse when you finally realize how hopeless it really is
Eeeew. That's particularly nasty and in keeping with the central theme of hell: hoplessness.
ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE and all that.
-
RandomThug
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:00 am
- Location: Nowheresville
- Contact:
have you seen the original dawn of the dead, both endings?Then there's this idea. The idea of the end of mankind, regardless of what you do.
I have problems with this idea for two reasons:
1. Why can they be killed then? If there's no way to survive, what's the point of allowing us to defeat them in combat, which we can.
2. It is against our (human) nature to accept defeat. We have made it this far against a lot of odds simply because we refuse to accpt extinction.
And with this ending.
We can't win its not even giving hope, its the end its hell its supposed to be depressing and sad.
They dont win, thats the point you cant win. There is no science behind it its hell pouring out from the darkness of your heart and after you feel your last breath the demon comes and fills your body with tis soul muahaha
Ehem.
I dont believe in any scientific answer... screw resident evil and its virus theory... back in the day a zombie was a zombie, the unliving. A creature of hell. The undead.
And well I want it to stay that way.
Jackie Treehorn: People forget the brain is the biggest sex organ.
The Dude: On you maybe.
The Dude: On you maybe.
@Thug: Hear hear. Let Zombies be undead. You know, the living dead.
I haven't seen this movie yet. The last really cool movie I saw concerning the undead was, of course, Army of Darkness. One of the best movies ever made, bar none. Full of corny one liners that only Bruce Campbell can perpetrate successfully.
Let's face it. One of the funniest scenes in the history of cinema occurred in the watery pit our hero Ash fell into early on in the film. His resulting fist fight with the Hag from hell had me rolling with laughter. The prosthetic chainsaw manuever, was, of course, a pure stroke of genius.
I haven't seen this movie yet. The last really cool movie I saw concerning the undead was, of course, Army of Darkness. One of the best movies ever made, bar none. Full of corny one liners that only Bruce Campbell can perpetrate successfully.
Let's face it. One of the funniest scenes in the history of cinema occurred in the watery pit our hero Ash fell into early on in the film. His resulting fist fight with the Hag from hell had me rolling with laughter. The prosthetic chainsaw manuever, was, of course, a pure stroke of genius.
CYNIC, n.:
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
-[url="http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/a.html"]The Devil's Dictionary[/url]
-
der Moench
- Posts: 1075
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 11:00 pm
- Location: das Kloster
- Contact:
Hear, hear! One of the funniest damn voice-sets I ever found on-line for Baldur's Gate II was Ash: "Go on and run! Run on home to momma;" "THIS is my BOOMSTICK!" and, of course: "Aw, baby - that's just what we call pillow-talk." LMAO!Originally posted by Chanak
...I haven't seen this movie yet. The last really cool movie I saw concerning the undead was, of course, Army of Darkness. One of the best movies ever made, bar none. Full of corny one liners that only Bruce Campbell can perpetrate successfully...
I put that one on one of my tanks, and gave the Johnny Bravo ("Don't mess with the hair, man;" and "Looks like I'm gonna have to use my karate on you. HA! HO!") voice-set to my monk. Ah, good times. Peace.
Err - sorry to drift off-topic.
There will be no Renaissance without Revolution.
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
Derision, scorn, and failure to understand do not move us. The future belongs to us ... Weasel for President!!
-
Bloodthroe
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:34 am
- Location: Hidden in Malice
- Contact:
What you said wrong
Well of course the disease acts like a virus, zombies just aren’t scary in this day and age. The virus was a good idea.
Also in the beginning when the nurse girl got into her car she saw either a van or hospital vehicle in front of her (I cant remember which) but two people were tearing apart and biting the person in the middle of them. So obviously they don’t lose interest after infecting people, they lose interest after the infected people die and become one of them.
It has been determined that one bite infects. The pregnant black mother was just scratched by the guy in the mall’s bite and she became infected, but it seemed to take her a long time.
It takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate through the body, give or take whether the person is exercising, so I don’t think it matters how big a person is on how fast they get infected. However I believe it matters how many bites they have and how many times they’ve been infected. The fat lady died within hours but was bitten badly, the pregnant mother that was scratched with a bite took a couple days.
Also of course it’s obviously that a blow to the brain kills the infected. Without the brain sending impulses to the body’s cells the cells just sit there motionless, like muscles without bone.
I don’t think the infected stave, they did stay outside the mall for days, more likely over a week or two (they didn’t say in movie I think.) Without having water or eating anything to replenish their glucose or carbohydrates, which is basically what the muscles need to work. The infected where ready to tip the buses over, so I’m guessing the virus sustained the bodies functions. Is why I think they can still walk around with their throats torn out. However I do believe they somewhat decompose, do to the virus eating at the bodies. But It’d take a while for it to destroy their bodies, I’d think years.
Now I’m not a doctor, nor am I into that stuff, but when you start to try to discuss how a movie works, when the writer probably doesn’t know anything about the subject. You’re taking it too seriously. I only saw the movie once and thought It’d be fun to point out all your mistakes for you. Not that I care you made them, but… hey you started this thread.
Edit: I just remembered the pregnant lady wasn’t black she was Russian I think. Ewhh Zombie Baby
Well of course the disease acts like a virus, zombies just aren’t scary in this day and age. The virus was a good idea.
Also in the beginning when the nurse girl got into her car she saw either a van or hospital vehicle in front of her (I cant remember which) but two people were tearing apart and biting the person in the middle of them. So obviously they don’t lose interest after infecting people, they lose interest after the infected people die and become one of them.
It has been determined that one bite infects. The pregnant black mother was just scratched by the guy in the mall’s bite and she became infected, but it seemed to take her a long time.
It takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate through the body, give or take whether the person is exercising, so I don’t think it matters how big a person is on how fast they get infected. However I believe it matters how many bites they have and how many times they’ve been infected. The fat lady died within hours but was bitten badly, the pregnant mother that was scratched with a bite took a couple days.
Also of course it’s obviously that a blow to the brain kills the infected. Without the brain sending impulses to the body’s cells the cells just sit there motionless, like muscles without bone.
I don’t think the infected stave, they did stay outside the mall for days, more likely over a week or two (they didn’t say in movie I think.) Without having water or eating anything to replenish their glucose or carbohydrates, which is basically what the muscles need to work. The infected where ready to tip the buses over, so I’m guessing the virus sustained the bodies functions. Is why I think they can still walk around with their throats torn out. However I do believe they somewhat decompose, do to the virus eating at the bodies. But It’d take a while for it to destroy their bodies, I’d think years.
Now I’m not a doctor, nor am I into that stuff, but when you start to try to discuss how a movie works, when the writer probably doesn’t know anything about the subject. You’re taking it too seriously. I only saw the movie once and thought It’d be fun to point out all your mistakes for you. Not that I care you made them, but… hey you started this thread.
Edit: I just remembered the pregnant lady wasn’t black she was Russian I think. Ewhh Zombie Baby
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
-
Bloodthroe
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:34 am
- Location: Hidden in Malice
- Contact:
Originally posted by Moonbiter
Army of Darkness is one of the greatest movies I've ever seen. As for the zombie-virus thingy, I thought 28 Days Later was a pretty good and scary movie.
Yes
I also agree that Army of darkness is definitely the creme de la creme, is why I thought the movie Evil Dead (the movie army of darkness was based on) would be good. But no it was just f***ed up... The people in 28 days later were smarter too then the people in dawn of the dead.I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
I may be bad, but I feel good.