help me decide

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Sat Nov 18, 2000 1:49 pm

Okay, I've finally gotten a handle on what character I want to play (thanks Lucian), but I can't decide between two different options.

I want to dual a warrior to cleric. That will give me good strength, weapon specialization in warhammer and flail, ability to dual wield, and d10 hit dice. I've boiled it down to two options, each with its own advantages.

If I start with a straight ranger, I will get an extra point in dual wielding as well as a racial enemy. (I'll also have stealth and charm animals, but those don't seem too relevant to the warrior/priest type.)

If I start with a berserker, I'll have the berserk ability (and I'm not interested in missle weapons for this character anyway). Problem is, I really should take the berserker up to level 8 to earn the extra berserk/day, so I have an extra level to earn as a cleric before I get to be fully dual-classed.

So I guess it comes down to what's more worth it: an extra proficiency point and a racial enemy or the ability to berserk 3 times/day with the drawback of having to wait a bit longer to dual.

Whadaya think?

Crovax · Post by **Crovax** » Sat Nov 18, 2000 3:18 pm

Beserkingg is a bit overrated in my opinion. Stick to the ranger (extra prof. is better). Set your racial enemy to vampiers or mindflayers (if that is possible). 3 times berserking is just not enough compared 2 the constant bonus of that extra proficiency will help you more

Crovax · Post by **Crovax** » Sat Nov 18, 2000 3:18 pm

hmm.,..posted 2 times

[This message has been edited by Crovax (edited 11-18-2000).]

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 9:31 am

go for ranger, they automatically have two slots in dual wielding which is very handy.

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 9:53 am

Go for the berserker => cleric and do it like this.

Do the dual classing from 9th level (you'll lose 1 cleric level but it's worth it - imo ). Place 5 stars in warhammer and 2 in dual wielding. After dual classing place at least 1 star 1 flail - the other ones don't matter and when you hit 12th level as cleric you can place the 3rd star in dual wielding. also at 16th & 20 th level you can additional prof's in flail giving you in the end a guy with (not a 100% sure about that one - should be like that though)

5 stars in warhammer
3 stars in flail
3 stars in dual wielding

... then just use Crom Fayer for mainhand and flail of the ages for offhand and your guy's a killing machine. Never underestimate the berserking ability, being immune to almost allkind of non-damaging offensive magic is awesome. Baddies like Kangax are just powerless when your guy is immune to imprisonment, maze, hold-person, confusion etc. (and it gives +2 hit & +2 damage)

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 3:42 pm

i tried to dual class a ranger to a cleric today and it didnt work, i made sure i had high wisdom and there are no alignment clashes but it didnt work, the only way i could be a ranger/cleric would be to be a half-elf and do multi class, i didnt seem to be able to have an elven cleric/ranger either.

on a slightly different note i saw that nwn allows a any race to be any class. So you could have a half-orc paladin, lol

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 9:28 am

You have to have at least 15 in prime prequisites (... or something) of the first class and 17 in the prime prequisites of second class. When your guy's a ranger => cleric you have to have at least 15 strengh, constitution, charisma and 17 in wisdom (I think - I'm not sure). Try it out

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 9:31 am

"Rangers must be of good alignment and have ability scores of at least 13 in strength and dexterity and at least 14 in wisdom and constitution. The prime requisites for rangers are strength, dexterity and wisdom"

... [url="http://www.planetbaldursgate.com"]www.planetbaldursgate.com[/url] ...

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 10:14 am

I've pretty much decided on the ranger-to-cleric option here because I'm wanting a great cleric who's also a respectable fighter, not a fighter with cleric spells. Dualing from ranger right away allows me to advance further and faster as a cleric and gives me a racial enemy (vampires).

But I will miss the immunities that berserking gives. I'm sure there are some magic items that give immunity to things like level drain and imprisonment. Anyone know what they are off the top of your head?

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 11:29 am

Amulet of Power (wearable after you dual to cleric I think) will give immunity to level drain.

Besides Enrage/Rage, the only things that protect from Imprisonment are Protection From Magic Scrolls, Spell Deflection/Turning/Trap, and Spell Immunity: Abjuration.

I would really recommend the berzerker over the ranger. In addition to enrage and the potential for advance specialization you get an extra level for the same exp. If you want more cleric and less fighter you can dual right away and still max out the cleric.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 4:07 pm

There's also the Mace of Disruption +2. I believe the Mace of Disruption +1 doesn't prevent level-drain, but just go see Cromwell, and he'll be able to turn it into a +2. That one protects as well against level drains.

justchris · Post by **justchris** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 9:49 am

I believe that somewhere in the book it says that you cannot dual a ranger, just like you cannot dual a paladin or a bard, because they are already somewhat of blend of characters (fighter/cleric/thief).

------------------
Famous Last Words in BG2:
"I didn't know they could do that?!?!?"

*load last saved game*

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 9:53 am

I don't mean to be picky but according to the 'rules' it's only Paladins & Bards that can't be dual / multiclassed. If you create a halfelf you can make him a ranger / cleric.

justchris · Post by **justchris** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:22 am

If I remember correctly, you can't dual a Druid class either, though some races can multi them. I think it is the same for the Ranger class. And since he is talking about Dual Classing not Multi-classing, I don't think that the multi-classing stuff matters...

------------------
Famous Last Words in BG2:
"I didn't know they could do that?!?!?"

*load last saved game*

[This message has been edited by justchris (edited 11-21-2000).]

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 11:08 am

You can dual from ranger to cleric. I've already done it just to make sure it would work. But now I've decided on dual from berserker...without going all the way to eigth level first (2 berserks a day is probably enough for a character who's really a cleric).

I do have a question on proficiency points, though. Once I become fully dual class, can I continue to add the stars I earn as cleric to weapons I already have multiple stars in? My level advancement as a fighter has stopped, but my fighter skills are active. Does that include the continued ability to work toward grand mastery in a single weapon?

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 3:27 pm

Once you've become fully dual class, you can't improve beyond what your new class is limited to because you have now adopted the new rules of your new class. So you won't be able to continue specialization to grandmastery on your weapon if I remember the rules correctly. You just get to keep what you had from your previous class although being a cleric it will still slap weapon restrictions on you. Makes sense though since you are now working as a cleric and not spending time working on your fighting skills like a dedicated fighter. That would then be multi-class.

*Rant Time*

While on the subject, I was thinking about what you were doing dual classing from a melee based class to a caster type class. I just realize, and a bit ticked off, the huge diff between a lvl 10 melee class dual to lvl 1 caster than a lvl 10 caster to a lvl 1 fighter. The latter would literally be so much weaker than the former by the time they reach similar levels. Why?

Disregarding Constitution bonuses, you gain d10 hit dice for every level as a melee. For sake of numbers lets say you get max hp each level up. So a lvl 10 fighter dual class to a lvl 1 mage would begin with 93 HP. Mages get d4 for every level, so they will have 40 HP to start at lvl 1 fighter. When you dual class, you do not gain any HP bonuses for each level up until your level exceeds your highest previous class level, which would be 10. So the problem? All classes lose their main hit dice roll after lvl 9 or 10 and gain alot fewer hp after. So a lvl 10 Mage to lvl 1 Fighter is literally screwed lsoing all the d10 hit dice rolls from lvls 1 - 9. The lvl 10 fighter to lvl 1 mage wouldn't care if he gets the crappy mage hit dice rolls after he exceeds lvl 10 since he already has the d10 hit dice already as a former fighter. So by the time the two different dual class characters reach similar levels, the one who started out as the fighter is so much better it's ridiculous. There is absolutely no incentive for a caster to dual to a melee unless you do it very early. Thus forces you to limit your spells. The fighter on the other hand wouldn't have to worry. If it's a matter of a few hps it wouldn't be a big deal, but this is a difference of 20+ or so HP and that's a ton. Sigh,

*Rant Off*

[This message has been edited by bullions27 (edited 11-21-2000).]

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 11:37 pm

bullions27 is absolutely right. The dual-classing rules definitely bias going from a melee class to a caster class...and that's exactly why I'm doing it.

Thing is, I like playing warriors, but I don't want either Anomen or Viconia in my party. What to do... Well, thinks I, if I start as a berserker, I'll roll my character with d10 hit dice, potential for exceptional strength, more attacks/round, better thac0, etc. I put four stars in warhammer and two in dual-wield. When I dualed to cleric, I put stars in flail and mace. By the time I get about two thirds through the game, I'll have a very powerful cleric dual-wielding Crom Faeyr and the Flail of Ages who can berserk twice a day. Not too shabby really.

and that's that

Chade Fallstar · Post by **Chade Fallstar** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:46 am

1st to justchris: What I meant was if you can multiclass a certain class combo you can also dualclass it.

And for the other stuff you were talking about: I don't know the rules - I just know how it works in BG2. If you have an 8th level fighter. Your Fighter has 4 stars in warhammer and 2 & dualwielding. You dualclass the guy to cleric. You'll lose the fighter abilities for a while and you'll get the cleric's abilities & weapon prof's. When you reach 9th level as a cleric you get all the abilities from the original class (that includes advanced weapon specialization). So when your cleric reaches 12th level and you get another weapon proficiency you can place it as fifth star in warhammer or the third star in dualwielding.

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Thu Nov 23, 2000 8:52 am

It works the same for BGII.

BGII is AD&D. Anyway, yea the entire structure of dual classing gives more advantages towards fighters learning magecraft than mages learning melee.

Saying that the absolute best time to dual class from your fighter class, e.g. Berserker, to your caster class, e.g. cleric, would be after lvl 10 when you lose the d10 hp bonuses and gain your nest prof. slot. Fighters gain prof. slots faster than any other class. Takes a ton longer to do but who cares when you have the potential of alot of HPs and 7 weap. prof. slots to use to build your second class.