.
the whole domain and "crafting whatever" is poorly described in the PHB and the ingame help...
so which are best domains (best gods) to choose under the aspect:
- most powerfull free domain spells
- best for crafting items / weapons / armor
- "special domain feats" ?
...for a cleric in a neutral good party ?
btw. are there any NPCs who can help you "crafting" ?
.
best domains for a cleric ?
-
silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
Well, for a crafting-oriented cleric, you may want to choose a sun domain, so that you get flame strike and can make flaming weapons.
The only other stuff clerics can make weapon-wise are holy/unholy - which is pretty standard fare regardless of domain - and mighty cleaving, which you'll get with most domains - but strength, war, and such are definites.
The ToEE instruction manual that came with the game CD has all the domain spells listed on pp. 132-135, so you can look them up there to see what you like.
Meanwhile, for a NG party you can refer to pp. 45-46 of the aforementioned manual and it lists all the deities, their alignments, and their domains - AFAIK it is pretty on the money regarding the 3.5E PHB/DMG books.
Re: NPCs who can help with crafting - Spugnoir will get craft wondrous item, Burne will take brew potion, and I don't know about the NPCs from the Elemental Nodes - but at that point the game's pretty much over anyway, eh?
So really, for crafting, you cannot rely on NPCs - and of course, Spugnoir and Burne will be limited by their available spells in determining what they can make (which is doodley-squat, if you haven't gotten the gist of this).
The only other stuff clerics can make weapon-wise are holy/unholy - which is pretty standard fare regardless of domain - and mighty cleaving, which you'll get with most domains - but strength, war, and such are definites.
The ToEE instruction manual that came with the game CD has all the domain spells listed on pp. 132-135, so you can look them up there to see what you like.
Meanwhile, for a NG party you can refer to pp. 45-46 of the aforementioned manual and it lists all the deities, their alignments, and their domains - AFAIK it is pretty on the money regarding the 3.5E PHB/DMG books.
Re: NPCs who can help with crafting - Spugnoir will get craft wondrous item, Burne will take brew potion, and I don't know about the NPCs from the Elemental Nodes - but at that point the game's pretty much over anyway, eh?
So really, for crafting, you cannot rely on NPCs - and of course, Spugnoir and Burne will be limited by their available spells in determining what they can make (which is doodley-squat, if you haven't gotten the gist of this).
-
silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
.
...can't my wizard craft flaming weapons ?
...and must my cleric have the good domain to craft "holy" weapons ?
AFAIK I need the lawfull domain (orders wrath) to craft axiomatic weapons...
...and what is the maximum amount of spells I'm allowed to improve weapons this way... ?
...and I read somewhere that I can turn/rebuke fire elementals when choosing the sun domain ?
.
...can't my wizard craft flaming weapons ?
...and must my cleric have the good domain to craft "holy" weapons ?
AFAIK I need the lawfull domain (orders wrath) to craft axiomatic weapons...
...and what is the maximum amount of spells I'm allowed to improve weapons this way... ?
...and I read somewhere that I can turn/rebuke fire elementals when choosing the sun domain ?
.
1. Sure, your wizard can craft flaming weapons, but since your post was about cleric domains, I responded in kind
2. You must be good-aligned to craft a holy weapon, evil to craft an unholy weapon, and so forth - the "Item Creation" document in your rule folder (in your data folder (in your ToEE folder)) outlines all the requirements for all the item crafting stuff - as does the 3.5E DMG (3E, too - there's very little difference)
3. What do you mean, "the maximum amount of spells (you're) allowed to improve weapons this way"?
4. I don't know about what's implemented in the game, but in the 3.5E PHB, it would be water domain clerics that turn fire elementals and fire clerics that turn water elementals... sun domain clerics have an option to destroy undead (greater turning) rather than just turning them... but again, that's in the PHB, I don't know if it's in the game.
2. You must be good-aligned to craft a holy weapon, evil to craft an unholy weapon, and so forth - the "Item Creation" document in your rule folder (in your data folder (in your ToEE folder)) outlines all the requirements for all the item crafting stuff - as does the 3.5E DMG (3E, too - there's very little difference)
3. What do you mean, "the maximum amount of spells (you're) allowed to improve weapons this way"?
4. I don't know about what's implemented in the game, but in the 3.5E PHB, it would be water domain clerics that turn fire elementals and fire clerics that turn water elementals... sun domain clerics have an option to destroy undead (greater turning) rather than just turning them... but again, that's in the PHB, I don't know if it's in the game.
-
silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
Originally posted by Greywulf
1. Sure, your wizard can craft flaming weapons, but since your post was about cleric domains, I responded in kind
2. You must be good-aligned to craft a holy weapon, evil to craft an unholy weapon, and so forth - the "Item Creation" document in your rule folder (in your data folder (in your ToEE folder)) outlines all the requirements for all the item crafting stuff - as does the 3.5E DMG (3E, too - there's very little difference)
3. What do you mean, "the maximum amount of spells (you're) allowed to improve weapons this way"?
4. I don't know about what's implemented in the game, but in the 3.5E PHB, it would be water domain clerics that turn fire elementals and fire clerics that turn water elementals... sun domain clerics have an option to destroy undead (greater turning) rather than just turning them... but again, that's in the PHB, I don't know if it's in the game.
1. so I don't need a cleric with a "good" domain to craft a holy weapon ?
2. ...but only a cleric with lawful domain (to get orders wrath) can craft an axiomatic weapon ?
3. ...so from your experience what is better lawful & war or lawful & sun or any other combination...
4. ...and gives war a free weapon feat ore only allows weapons specialization ?
5. ...do you find enough axiomatic weapons in the game you can "upgrade"/craft ?
Re: 3. is there any limits how many effects I can craft on a weapon ?
...means: can I build a holy, lawful, flaming, shocking, keen greatsword +3...
...or are there any limits ?
.
-
Galuf the Dwarf
- Posts: 3160
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
- Contact:
To attempt to answer your original questions, silverdragon.
1) The elemental domains will give your Cleric access to certain spells that a Sorceror/Wizard or Druid could cast (if that interests you). The aligment domains, at the 4th-level domain spell, allow you to cast a spell that damages targets that are opposite alignment, and make them risk suffering additional ailments (read the description of the spells for more information). Of course, the most combat-oriented spells for elemental and alignment domains generally don't come about until your Cleric is level 7.
2) The elemental domains of Fire, Air, and Water will likely be your answer for creating flaming, freezing, and shocking weapons with your cleric. At domain spell level 4 (by about character level 7), you shall be able to cast the spells of the alignment domains (Good, Law, Chaos, or Evil) that permit you to enchant weapons with the alignment affects (Holy, Axiomatic, etc.).
3) For "special domain feats," I'd suggest War if you're interested in having a Cleric with a certain Weapon Focus (For instance, you could have an evil Half-Orc cleric of Gruumsh with 20 Strength that is highly proficient with a Longspear. The type of weapon they are proficient in varies by the deity that a Cleric w/ the War domain has.). Still, not many of the domains actually give feats. Otherwise, I might suggest Sun for Improved Turning (if turning undead is a problem), so that you will likely be able to destroy many undead at the first turn attempt.
Note: You don't need a certain spell to upgrade weapons to +1 or higher, only enough XP and gold. Also, the more enchantments you try to add to a weapon, the more XP and gold it costs. Still, you'll find many +1 weapons along the line, as well as some +2 weapons, and a rare amount of +3 weapons, waiting for additional enchantments of your choice. Why not make a Holy and/or Axiomatic Longsword with the flaming property for a good-aligned warrior, like a Paladin.
1) The elemental domains will give your Cleric access to certain spells that a Sorceror/Wizard or Druid could cast (if that interests you). The aligment domains, at the 4th-level domain spell, allow you to cast a spell that damages targets that are opposite alignment, and make them risk suffering additional ailments (read the description of the spells for more information). Of course, the most combat-oriented spells for elemental and alignment domains generally don't come about until your Cleric is level 7.
2) The elemental domains of Fire, Air, and Water will likely be your answer for creating flaming, freezing, and shocking weapons with your cleric. At domain spell level 4 (by about character level 7), you shall be able to cast the spells of the alignment domains (Good, Law, Chaos, or Evil) that permit you to enchant weapons with the alignment affects (Holy, Axiomatic, etc.).
3) For "special domain feats," I'd suggest War if you're interested in having a Cleric with a certain Weapon Focus (For instance, you could have an evil Half-Orc cleric of Gruumsh with 20 Strength that is highly proficient with a Longspear. The type of weapon they are proficient in varies by the deity that a Cleric w/ the War domain has.). Still, not many of the domains actually give feats. Otherwise, I might suggest Sun for Improved Turning (if turning undead is a problem), so that you will likely be able to destroy many undead at the first turn attempt.
Note: You don't need a certain spell to upgrade weapons to +1 or higher, only enough XP and gold. Also, the more enchantments you try to add to a weapon, the more XP and gold it costs. Still, you'll find many +1 weapons along the line, as well as some +2 weapons, and a rare amount of +3 weapons, waiting for additional enchantments of your choice. Why not make a Holy and/or Axiomatic Longsword with the flaming property for a good-aligned warrior, like a Paladin.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
1. Good point - I'm referencing this through the PHB 3.5, so bear that in mind - but it does list holy smite for good domain clerics (in their domain spells) and also in the manual - I don't see holy smite listed as a general cleric spell, nor do I see it listed in any other domain.
Therefore (it seems) you must choose the domain of good to craft holy weapons.
2. That would be true.
3. Well - if you're NG and you want good (for craftingholy weapons) and sun (for flame strikes - the best offensive cleric spell) go with Pelor, a NG good of the sun (his other domains are healing and strength).
4. I never played a war domain cleric - I stick with Pelor - but I found no mention of gaining an extra weapon feat or proficiency for war clerics
5. There is a spiked chain in the game that is in the banshee's chest - but IIRC it is holy, not axiomatic - I don't think I've ever found an axiomatic item in the game - you'd have to craft it yourself.
6. Yes - the game will crash if you put too many or it may get buggy. I can successfully enchant things with +3, keen, holy, an elemental effect and an elemental burst with no problems - I have also thrown on axiomatic properties, but the damage bonus does not seem to stack with the extra damage from being holy - so a CE foe only gets 2d6 extra damage, not 4d6 - but I can't tell.
You can't have two elemental burst types on a weapon - that always crashes me - and make sure you're renaming it as you go - the long names (Masterwork longsword +1 +2 +3 keen holy flaming flaming burst) may cause problems - I enchant in pieces - it doesn't cost anything extra - so I make my weapons +3 and keen first, then holy, then (frost) and (icy burst) last.
BTW, axiomatic enchantments make your weapons glow pink/violet. Eeesh!
Therefore (it seems) you must choose the domain of good to craft holy weapons.
2. That would be true.
3. Well - if you're NG and you want good (for craftingholy weapons) and sun (for flame strikes - the best offensive cleric spell) go with Pelor, a NG good of the sun (his other domains are healing and strength).
4. I never played a war domain cleric - I stick with Pelor - but I found no mention of gaining an extra weapon feat or proficiency for war clerics
5. There is a spiked chain in the game that is in the banshee's chest - but IIRC it is holy, not axiomatic - I don't think I've ever found an axiomatic item in the game - you'd have to craft it yourself.
6. Yes - the game will crash if you put too many or it may get buggy. I can successfully enchant things with +3, keen, holy, an elemental effect and an elemental burst with no problems - I have also thrown on axiomatic properties, but the damage bonus does not seem to stack with the extra damage from being holy - so a CE foe only gets 2d6 extra damage, not 4d6 - but I can't tell.
You can't have two elemental burst types on a weapon - that always crashes me - and make sure you're renaming it as you go - the long names (Masterwork longsword +1 +2 +3 keen holy flaming flaming burst) may cause problems - I enchant in pieces - it doesn't cost anything extra - so I make my weapons +3 and keen first, then holy, then (frost) and (icy burst) last.
BTW, axiomatic enchantments make your weapons glow pink/violet. Eeesh!
-
silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
.
ok - I'm getting little confused...
I read somewhere that only "orders wrath" gives a weapon that axiomic effect...
...so "dispel chaos" doesn't work ?
and I have to have lawful alignement
...but "dispel evil" and a good alignement allows me to craft the "holy" effect ?
..but what about smite evil ?
.
ok - I'm getting little confused...
I read somewhere that only "orders wrath" gives a weapon that axiomic effect...
...so "dispel chaos" doesn't work ?
and I have to have lawful alignement
...but "dispel evil" and a good alignement allows me to craft the "holy" effect ?
..but what about smite evil ?
.
-
silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:53 am
- Contact:
a few domains
War domain - If you choose this, your cleric gains proficiency (if they didn't have it already) and weapon focus with the god's favored weapon. For example, if you choose an elf and worship Corellan Lorathian and take war as one of the domains, the characters will gain weapon focus: long sword. War domain doesn't help much for crafting, but offers some decent bonus spells to help in combat (spiritual weapon, etc). War domain is useful if you want your cleric to be fighting in combat rather than just sitting back casting spells.
From what I know, the only way to craft holy/unholy/axiomatic/archanic weapons are to take the domains that allow for the correct alignment spell (good for holy smite, law for order's wrath, etc). Perhaps they've changed it for the computer version, but that's they way it works in the pencil&paper version.
Each of the elemental domains (air, earth, fire, water) should allow your character to turn elementals of the opposite type (air turns earth, fire turns water, etc) and command ones of the same type (fire commands fire, etc). Not sure how the command aspect is implemented in the game. The elemental domains may help craft elemental properties on weapons if you don't have a wizard that can do it.
Sun domain lets you destroy undead you turn even if your level wouldn't normally be high enough to allow that. Probably not much help for crafting though.
Healing domain makes all your heal spells a little better (essentially 1 extra point of curing). Again, probably not very useful to help in crafting.
Most of the other domains probably aren't as useful. My recommendation is to take Good&Law if you want to make axiomatic holy weapons. If you aren't going to do any weapon crafting with your cleric, then War & something else might be more useful for you.
FYI, clerics make pretty decent crafters of Wondrous Items, so you don't necessarily need to have them craft weapons & armor if you have a wizard to do that. If you go that route, you miss out on the holy/axiomatic stuff, but it's not the end of the world. A +3 keen elemental burst weapon still kicks a lot of butt.
War domain - If you choose this, your cleric gains proficiency (if they didn't have it already) and weapon focus with the god's favored weapon. For example, if you choose an elf and worship Corellan Lorathian and take war as one of the domains, the characters will gain weapon focus: long sword. War domain doesn't help much for crafting, but offers some decent bonus spells to help in combat (spiritual weapon, etc). War domain is useful if you want your cleric to be fighting in combat rather than just sitting back casting spells.
From what I know, the only way to craft holy/unholy/axiomatic/archanic weapons are to take the domains that allow for the correct alignment spell (good for holy smite, law for order's wrath, etc). Perhaps they've changed it for the computer version, but that's they way it works in the pencil&paper version.
Each of the elemental domains (air, earth, fire, water) should allow your character to turn elementals of the opposite type (air turns earth, fire turns water, etc) and command ones of the same type (fire commands fire, etc). Not sure how the command aspect is implemented in the game. The elemental domains may help craft elemental properties on weapons if you don't have a wizard that can do it.
Sun domain lets you destroy undead you turn even if your level wouldn't normally be high enough to allow that. Probably not much help for crafting though.
Healing domain makes all your heal spells a little better (essentially 1 extra point of curing). Again, probably not very useful to help in crafting.
Most of the other domains probably aren't as useful. My recommendation is to take Good&Law if you want to make axiomatic holy weapons. If you aren't going to do any weapon crafting with your cleric, then War & something else might be more useful for you.
FYI, clerics make pretty decent crafters of Wondrous Items, so you don't necessarily need to have them craft weapons & armor if you have a wizard to do that. If you go that route, you miss out on the holy/axiomatic stuff, but it's not the end of the world. A +3 keen elemental burst weapon still kicks a lot of butt.
Originally posted by silverdragon72
.
@greywulf:
...if I understand you right...
the only chance to craft a holy axiomatic weapon is to have a cleric with a lawful and good domain and the same alignement ?
.
Well, I only know for certain that you must be lawful to craft axiomatic weapons and good to craft holy weapons - I don't know what limitations apply insofar as getting the spells (order's wrath and holy smite) necessary for such enchantments, but the domains of good and law will definitely offer said spells. I don't know if LG clerics in other domains definitely get access to those spells.
Hey - here's the lowdown on a couple of issues in this thread, courtesy of Mulligan (and I quote):
"But just one thing, there's been much discussion of clerics/domains/crafting lately. I currently play with 5 Clerics and i know for sure that to create Holy and Axiomatic wpns. a Cleric MUST be Lawful Good aligned and choose both Good AND Law as domains. Also Flame Strike comes to all clerics so Sun isn't neccesary, and Elemental priests can craft items according to domain-spells (Shock burst & Flame burst)"
There you have it!
(Thanks, Mull)
"But just one thing, there's been much discussion of clerics/domains/crafting lately. I currently play with 5 Clerics and i know for sure that to create Holy and Axiomatic wpns. a Cleric MUST be Lawful Good aligned and choose both Good AND Law as domains. Also Flame Strike comes to all clerics so Sun isn't neccesary, and Elemental priests can craft items according to domain-spells (Shock burst & Flame burst)"
There you have it!
(Thanks, Mull)
best domains
War: free weapon focus in a weapon
Destruction: Smite once per day: bonus to damage equal to level, +4 bonus to attack. Use as a free action
Strength: add a bonus to STR equal to your level once per day
in a NG party, take a LG cleric of CUTHBERT, with Strength and Destruction or LG cleric of HEIRONEUS with War and Law or Good for crafting Arms & Armors so he can make Holy or Axiomatic weapons
or
CG elf or half-elf cleric of Corellon Larethian with War and Protection (grants a bonus to next save equal to your level) or Good if you plan to give him/her craft Arms & Armors so he can make Holy weapons.
there you go...
War: free weapon focus in a weapon
Destruction: Smite once per day: bonus to damage equal to level, +4 bonus to attack. Use as a free action
Strength: add a bonus to STR equal to your level once per day
in a NG party, take a LG cleric of CUTHBERT, with Strength and Destruction or LG cleric of HEIRONEUS with War and Law or Good for crafting Arms & Armors so he can make Holy or Axiomatic weapons
or
CG elf or half-elf cleric of Corellon Larethian with War and Protection (grants a bonus to next save equal to your level) or Good if you plan to give him/her craft Arms & Armors so he can make Holy weapons.
there you go...
if you dont have a Druid the PLANT domain is very useful, it gives you theese Druid spells:Entangle, Barkskin, Spike Growth, Command Plants & Blight
The DEATH domain is very powerful, you get a "save or die" touch attack 1/day and it actually works.
The LUCK & TRAVEL are good domains for a Cleric of Fharlanghn, it gives good spells, especially Travel with Teleport as 5th lvl spell.
Also LUCK let's you reroll next save, hit roll or critical hit confirmation. All very useful
The DEATH domain is very powerful, you get a "save or die" touch attack 1/day and it actually works.
The LUCK & TRAVEL are good domains for a Cleric of Fharlanghn, it gives good spells, especially Travel with Teleport as 5th lvl spell.
Also LUCK let's you reroll next save, hit roll or critical hit confirmation. All very useful
Oh, When all else fail, put the Dwarf up front!ABOUT DEATH DOMAIN
Indeed Mulligan...
you're right about the Death Domain: but the thing is that the power is level dependent.
Say you are a 5th level cleric, you can make a death touch once per day against one target. You roll 5d6, if the total is greater than the target's HP AND the target fails a will save, it dies.
Double condition, plus the chance (never experienced, so dunno) that the power is wasted if the touch attack is failed.
But I like the Death/Law combo with a LE cleric of Wee Jas. Concept again
Indeed Mulligan...
you're right about the Death Domain: but the thing is that the power is level dependent.
Say you are a 5th level cleric, you can make a death touch once per day against one target. You roll 5d6, if the total is greater than the target's HP AND the target fails a will save, it dies.
Double condition, plus the chance (never experienced, so dunno) that the power is wasted if the touch attack is failed.
But I like the Death/Law combo with a LE cleric of Wee Jas. Concept again
Of course, sorry for not mentioning that.
I don't normally use the ability until i have downed my enemy on his HP, but most of the bad guys have poor AC vs Touch Attack so i hit more often than i miss. A hiil giant has AC 8 vs touch.
I didn't use the ability much on lower levels, it's more useful for high level clerics. My Wee Jas Cleric is C9/wiz1 and has 9d6, and the idea of instant kill by laying on hands is just sweet. for me to it's all about concept and trying out new things.
As always,
I don't normally use the ability until i have downed my enemy on his HP, but most of the bad guys have poor AC vs Touch Attack so i hit more often than i miss. A hiil giant has AC 8 vs touch.
I didn't use the ability much on lower levels, it's more useful for high level clerics. My Wee Jas Cleric is C9/wiz1 and has 9d6, and the idea of instant kill by laying on hands is just sweet. for me to it's all about concept and trying out new things.
As always,
Oh, When all else fail, put the Dwarf up front!