What determines Imoen's XP (Chapter 4)? >>>spoilers<<<

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:41 pm

Everytime I've gotten Imoen back in my games, she's been far behind the rest of the party in experience. While being somewhat behind is to be expected to a certain degree (I've been adventuring, she's been having her soul taken away), I've heard she can start out at higher than 90,000 XP in the Wizard class (8th level) which is where she always seems to be when I get her (and as I said, this is about 2 or 3 levels behind the rest of the party).

If Imoen can indeed be had at a higher amount of XP and a higher level, what level does my party need to be at?

I've scoured this forum, and come up with some interesting threads, but none of them address the issue with a degree of certainty. Is there any way of knowing when the "best time" to pick Immy up is?

TIA

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:23 pm

Well, I went to Spellhold after completing every single quest in Chapter 2 (the Unfinished Business mod quests included) and Watcher's Keep. When I got Imoen in my party there, she turned out to be level 13. Pretty decent, eh?

Well, I was a level 24 Kensai myself but still, not bad at all I thought.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:35 pm

If I were level 24, a 13th level mage would be pretty useless to me.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:34 pm

And if you reached level 24 before hitting Spellhold, I'd have to ask whether you used SK to do it. Because, you know, it couldn't happen naturally (excluding certain ToB additions, of course).

I've played through 4 times, tried running through quickly once, and doing just about everything available in the early chapters, the other times. In any cases, I found Imoen only one level behind my party when she joined up.

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:51 am

Originally posted by fable
And if you reached level 24 before hitting Spellhold, I'd have to ask whether you used SK to do it. Because, you know, it couldn't happen naturally (excluding certain ToB additions, of course).

I don't use any cheats for anything (I don't have Shadowkeeper and used the CLUA console only once in order to get around a very serious bug caused by the UB mod) and I have no reason to lie so obviously it is possible to get to level 24 before Spellhold.

If you read my earlier post, I said that I got tons of experience from Watcher's Keep (actually I think I got my last 12 levels or so from there). Furthermore, I got to level 24 with a 6 person party (did all the quests of ALL the NPCs available in chapter 2 by revolving them). If you want some spoilers on how this is possible, highlight the black text below:

1- Deck of Many Things can give you 1,000,000 experience.
2- Messing with the machine of Lum the Mad can get you 100,000 experience points if you get lucky like me.

3- Killing the shadow dragon + Firkraag can get you a good amount of experience.
4- Killing Kangaxx can get you good experince (I think 90,000).
5- Killing Demogorgan can get you good experince (100,000).
6- Killing the demons Demogorgan summons can get you **INSANE** amounts of experience. Demogorgan NEVER runs out of summons but he won't summon more than a certain amount each time. If you are really skilled, you could manevour around Demogorgan and keep killing his demons without him touching you (one particular type of the summoned demons are pretty tough though). Interesting thing about Demogorgan is that he doesn't show much interest in attacking you (altough he likes to cast storm of vengeance if you get too close) if you are fighting his summons. With my party, I was able to go through 5 sets of summons (A LOT) before taking him on. While Demogorgan himself is insanely, insanely, insanely (did I say insanely?) diffucult to beat (I am using the improved Demogorgan patch), his summons are relatively easy as most of them are nothing more than pit fiends that you can summon yourself with a gate.
7- There are really tons of other places where you can get a lot of experience. Perhaps 90% of all quests in this game are optional and few people complete all the quests available to them. The rewards for completing more quests than necessary however, are certainly obvious (more experince).

About Imoen, I don't actually find her useless in my party right now as she can cast level 7 spells. She is also the only thief in the party so her skills come in pretty handy. Moreover, even if she was utterly useless in every way, I would still take her because I like her and I think her dialogue adds a lot to the game.

Don't forget that Imoen can use bows relatively well. If she is too low level for you when you run into her and her spells don't do anything either, give her a good bow until she levels up and you might find out that she can be useful despite her single proficiency slot in short bows.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:39 pm

wait 1 000 000 xp from deck of many things? I thought 300 000 was the highest xp you could get from any card.

Demogorgon is indeed the most xp rewarded encounter in the game, not only do you get 100 000 xp, but every single character in the party gets 100 000 xp, not the entire party.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:41 pm

If you read my earlier post, I said that I got tons of experience from Watcher's Keep (actually I think I got my last 12 levels or so from there).

And what do you think I meant when I wrote, "And if you reached level 24 before hitting Spellhold, I'd have to ask whether you used SK to do it. Because, you know, it couldn't happen naturally (excluding certain ToB additions, of course)"? I'm emphatically not saying you cheated, but there's your problem. When Imoen's levels were preset in the game, they were set according to SoA parameters.

Now that we know the background, one potential answer for you is to hold off exploring Watcher's Keep until after your party acquires Imoen. She should be no more than 1 level away from everybody else.

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Gauda wait 1 000 000 xp from deck of many things? I thought 300 000 was the highest xp you could get from any card.

Nope, "Throne" gets you 1,000,000 xp for the entire party (everyone is almost guaranteed to level up here unless your NPCs are already very high level).

It is "Sun" that gets everyone 300,000 xp.

Originally posted by Gauda Demogorgon is indeed the most xp rewarded encounter in the game, not only do you get 100 000 xp, but every single character in the party gets 100 000 xp, not the entire party.

Well, these are all spoilers (altough pretty much anything we talk about the game here can be considered a spolier) so I am going to do black text again:

Heh, I hadn't actually realized that Demogorgan gave everyone 100,000 xp. Pretty cool. Add to that the average 15000-25000 xp from the demons summoned and you get probably about 150,000 xp per person minimum at the end of the encounter. If you are like me and fight several waves of demons (I did 5 or 6 waves (in the end it got a bit crowded to tell if Demogorgan summoned another set while I was fighting him

)), you are sure to level up at least a couple people.

I think the second most rewarding encounter is the 3 seals. First you have to get the keys for the seals which means fighting a dragon, and in the case of the colored tubes and balls, 2 elemental liches (at the same time

) , bunch of earth elementals, bunch of mages, beholders and other high level stuff. After you get the keys for the seals, the guys that pop up from the seals can be really tough if you don't know how to handle them as well. In the last seal fight, I went after the wrong people the first couple times (I figured out quickly that it was not smart to go after the red female devil or the undead first) when I ran into them and got slaughtered.

Watcher's Keep is definately one of my favorite places in the game and not just for the experince. I really like the puzzles and riddles it provides (Deck of Many Things, the machine of Lum the Mad, colored torches, etc.). These make the game a lot more fun for me. Pure hack and slash gets pretty boring after a while.

Fable,

You are right in that it would have been so much better to get Imoen before Watcher's Keep but I had Yoshimo in my party all throughout (he was my only thief and had become a pretty powerful one too (he managed to make it all the way up to level 22 to my amazement (I didn't even think this possible) and his backstabs with a +4 ninja sword "hurt"

) and didn't want to get rid of him.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:16 pm

Originally posted by Black_Paladin
Watcher's Keep is definately one of my favorite places in the game and not just for the experince. I really like the puzzles and riddles it provides (Deck of Many Things, the machine of Lum the Mad, colored torches, etc.). These make the game a lot more fun for me. Pure hack and slash gets pretty boring after a while.

Absolutely. It's a great add-on.

You are right in that it would have been so much better to get Imoen before Watcher's Keep but I had Yoshimo in my party all throughout (he was my only thief and had become a pretty powerful one too (he managed to make it all the way up to level 22 to my amazement (I didn't even think this possible) and his backstabs with a +4 ninja sword "hurt" ) and didn't want to get rid of him.

To get a mix of thief and magic skills, I like Jan. He's the best thief in the game, bar none, and in ToB can become an extremely powerful mage. Even in SoA, his magic skills make him a very potent backup, and if you want a challenge (as opposed to going the "most powerful" route), try using him as your primary spellcaster.

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:56 pm

Originally posted by fable
To get a mix of thief and magic skills, I like Jan. He's the best thief in the game, bar none, and in ToB can become an extremely powerful mage. Even in SoA, his magic skills make him a very potent backup, and if you want a challenge (as opposed to going the "most powerful" route), try using him as your primary spellcaster.

I'm sure Jan is a great thief and a mage but it's hard for me to give an NPC slot to a duel or multi NPC in my games because I always travel with 6 people and like to make each person specialize in one thing. As a result, most of the time my NPCs are pretty weak by themselves but when combined, they complement each other and this nullifies their weaknesses. This being the case, I usually have my best performing party if I play evil (Edwin as pure mage, Viconia as pure Cleric, Korgan as pure fighter, Serevok as pure fighter, etc.)

Jan would probably be a good character to take along if I was playing with a just a couple NPCs but he doesn't really suit my playing style.

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:20 am

posted by fable:

if you want a challenge (as opposed to going the "most powerful" route), try using him as your primary spellcaster

in my experience, using jan as the only spellcaste and thief in your party actually makes things EASIER, as it frees a slot for another (warrior) char. i'm running a super-warrior party now (just the best in each field: kensai-thief, inquisitor, beserker, archer, stalker) - jan fits perfectly there...