Dual Classing/Party Formation

Incertainty · Post by **Incertainty** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:56 am

1/What level do you recommend dualling my kensai at (mage)? I'm looking for an exp. cap remover, and if at all possible to raise your level purely by random encounters, do not mind at all spending some time on this to be able to dual at level 12 or so. I was looking around on the forum but couldn't find anything all that helpfull...

Current Party: Kensai/Jaheira/Minsc/Yoshimo (to be kicked out, getting Mazzy later on)/Viconia/Jan (to be replaced by Imoen later on).

So I'm wondering... should I kick out Yoshimo, and work with a part of 5 so as not to have to distribute the exp.? Orwould the 200k exp. from Yoshimo's heart-quest compensate for this?I have to at least keep Jan, even if he is getting kicked out eventually, because he'll be the only thief I have for a while between killing Yoshimo and retrieving Imoen. Btw; how do you reduce your party from 6 to less? And I read somewhere the price for the info on Imoen is 15k... How come mine is 20k? Are you supposed to haggle?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:19 am

Originally posted by Incertainty
1/What level do you recommend dualling my kensai at (mage)? I'm looking for an exp. cap remover, and if at all possible to raise your level purely by random encounters, do not mind at all spending some time on this to be able to dual at level 12 or so. I was looking around on the forum but couldn't find anything all that helpfull...

no matter whether you use an exp cap remover or not, unless you have ToB and plan to continue this game on to there, you won't get the exp to make it count. The difference between a level 9 kensai and a level 12 kensai is one proficiency point and a -1 bonus to THACO (plus whatever the fighter THACO is at that point).

dualling at level 9 will get your kensai class back quicker and get more mage levels by the end of the game.

Originally posted by Incertainty
Current Party: Kensai/Jaheira/Minsc/Yoshimo (to be kicked out, getting Mazzy later on)/Viconia/Jan (to be replaced by Imoen later on).

So I'm wondering... should I kick out Yoshimo, and work with a part of 5 so as not to have to distribute the exp.? Orwould the 200k exp. from Yoshimo's heart-quest compensate for this?I have to at least keep Jan, even if he is getting kicked out eventually, because he'll be the only thief I have for a while between killing Yoshimo and retrieving Imoen. Btw; how do you reduce your party from 6 to less? And I read somewhere the price for the info on Imoen is 15k... How come mine is 20k? Are you supposed to haggle?

my advice would be to kick yoshimo out now. operate with 5 characters to distribute the exp as Jan has enough thieving skills for what you'll face. I would say you may struggle for magery as Jan will gain levels slowly, but that's your choice. personally i only use mages for buffing and breach.

when you get on your way, simply drop Jan and pick up Yoshi. He'll betray you, you'll get Imoen and the 200k exp.

as for the information on Imoen, without too much spoiler:

- there are two ways to get to her. two groups will approach you and you have to decide which one to go with. it will only cost you 15,000 gp but i would advise you to wait until you have done more than a few quests so you have the equipment/levels to survive underdark later in the game

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:58 am

you can always come back to the underdark later... there are five major areas there, three of them containing almost exclusievly monsters of certain kind. two of them can be left for a later time, and some are a lot less difficult than others.

as to kensai/mage levels, i have two cut-points here: 9 and 13. level 12 does not offer any significant improvements over level 9, as Thrain noted. Level 13 adds an extra 1/2 attack, which may or may not be important to you, detending on your playing style.

the "feel" of a kensai is better for me with 13 levels, an accomplished warrior, who will gain nothing significant by advancing - the perfect base for another carrier! but you'll have no problems with the 9th level kensai, too. it all depends on how much are you prepared to wait untill you get the kensai classes back, since the most important spells for a kensai/mage are mid-level (levels 4 - 6), and not the uber-killers.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:02 am

Originally posted by Incertainty
I have to at least keep Jan, even if he is getting kicked out eventually, because he'll be the only thief I have for a while between killing Yoshimo and retrieving Imoen.

The time between Yoshimo betraying you and getting Imoen back is aproximately 10 minutes of gaming time at most, and you will only have your main character in those 10 minutes anyway (it's a short dream sequence). So theres no need to take Yoshimo and Jan, you'll only need one of them.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:03 pm

If you just want a mage who can use weapons, dualling immediately isn't a bad idea either. A 7th level Kensai and a 9th level aren't that different either.

Coconut_Crab · Post by **Coconut_Crab** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:06 pm

My advise is to dual at level 12, because you get 1 more proficiency slot on your favorite weapon, and as a mage you can use that level 6 spell to turn you into a fighter. As long as your mage level is higher than your fighter level (duh!), you will always become a better fighter than you used to be before dualing.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:29 pm

Coco_Crab: If you're going as far as 12, you may as well go to level 13 in Kensai, where you'll get an extra 1/2 attack per round.

Coconut_Crab · Post by **Coconut_Crab** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:20 pm

Yeah, but if you transform to a fighter through the mage spell when you are a very high level mage, you get 5 attacks per round anyways.

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:53 pm

Or you go the extra level, get more Hit Points, and get the extra 1/2 attack without needing to cast a spell.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:17 pm

yes, this is true, most people like to duel over @ lvl 13, higher than that and you won't be able to get past lvl 13 for the 2nd class for it to be worth it in SoA

Daydrius · Post by **Daydrius** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:57 pm

What I did was dualed at level 9, so I could max out the mage part as much as possible. I use my kensai/mage mostly to rain hell upon my enemies, and to take down those who are resistant to magic with ease. Since I have the robe of Vecna, the Amulet of power, the ring of acuity, and the ring of wizardry, My guy is mostyl a spellcaster. The level at which you dual is mostly based on what you want to be, an excellent mage with decent fighting capabilities, or an excellent fighter with decent magical capabilities.

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:43 am

Originally posted by Mirk

the "feel" of a kensai is better for me with 13 levels, an accomplished warrior, who will gain nothing significant by advancing - the perfect base for another carrier! but you'll have no problems with the 9th level kensai, too. it all depends on how much are you prepared to wait untill you get the kensai classes back, since the most important spells for a kensai/mage are mid-level (levels 4 - 6), and not the uber-killers.

I too always (almost always) go for lvl 13 before leveling up. It takes a super-long time, but if you do some Watcher's Keep levels and summon (well, CLUA-summon) some high-level monsters for training a couple of times, by the end of SoA you'll be a formidable warrior with a nice spell arsenal.

Getting a high level in the mage class is not to be overlooked though. Mid-level buffs are essential and will be used the most, of course, but having triggers, chain contingencies and time stops will make you a true "dervish of destruction". With a small party, getting to those high level spells is crucial to beating some of the evil evil anti-cheat contraptions mod makers have ingeniously made for us

With your party members down, your spells depleted and you being "in a tight spot" , a chain contingency of tenser's->simulacrum->abi dalzim can do wonders (except against the Eclipse blokes, where unless you take the upper hand QUICKLY you are as good as dead).

I'm rambling though; my vote is for lvl 13 ~~ worth the wait!

-kaitsuburi

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:17 am

I would dual at 12, the difference with dualling at 13 is an extra 1 pt. of Thac0 and 1/2 attack/rnd, but you'll have to wait more than 500k exp pts. to gain back your kensai (and to start gaining HLA), and you'll be about 2 lv. behind as a mage, that at high lev. means several extra high lev. spell (way more usefull than your extra half attack); plus with the mastery patch installed you can even max your attack/rnd (5) even without the extra 1/2 from 13th lev..

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:58 am

Originally posted by lompo
with the mastery patch installed you can even max your attack/rnd (5) even without the extra 1/2 from 13th lev..

Excellent point!
It just depends on how "purist" you want to be

-kaitsuburi

Incertainty · Post by **Incertainty** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:59 am

Ah well... I ended up dualling at lvl 9 in the end. Mostly because I really do need a decent mage in party, seeing as the only other mage in my party is (will be) Imoen; and as for warriors, I've got Minsc and will pick up Mazzy eventually, and for support I've still got Imoen and Jaheira. Even in BGI I liked to have more than 1 mage. For the moment however, my magery is seriously struggling, having only my yet-to-reclaim-kensai-abilities lvl 4 mage. Ah well, it can't always be as you'd like it.