Why do they hack???

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon May 10, 2004 2:59 pm

I was on SoA forum and there was one guy asking for a code to actually hack the game and play freely.

I got upset on that. Not because of the person itself. But because of the intelectual property.

You know, I like to write. I plan to write a book on sci fy, and to publish it someday, as well as to help to build a game, not to mention that I'm helping my friends to build an economics manual for rookies.

I dont feel good thinking that working like a dumb @ss for years and then someone comes, not even asking, take it away, uses, improves his relations with that and becomer richer.

I was a linux user before I was able to buy windows. I was an Oppen Office enthusiast, and I still am, but now I can buy MS office.

Dammit, if I can be honest, why cant they???

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Mon May 10, 2004 3:31 pm

Ask them.. I don't know as well. Personally i don't download music as well (except when it's free), for example.

It's a certain mind set, I think. But.. ask them. They know.

Some people, I do know, just don't care about other's property.

The music downloading is a 'good' sign: when it becomes easy to break the law and the risk seems small morals and the law goes out the window in favour of free music.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon May 10, 2004 3:48 pm

Originally posted by Therion
Ask them.. I don't know as well. Personally i don't download music as well (except when it's free), for example.

Yes, I do that too.

My BG series had no audio cd with the soundtracks, so I've downloaded it from Interplay.

The music downloading is a 'good' sign: when it becomes easy to break the law and the risk seems small morals and the law goes out the window in favour of free music.

I dont understand why people dont get inside theyr own concepts of property. Try entering the home of someone who download music and stuff. Get something for you, and walk away. He will launch every policeman he can over you, calling you thief.

It is not a hard concept to swallow, I think.

Audace · Post by **Audace** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:32 pm

Because they overcharge......well not with games i always pay for those, but for music anyways....

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:43 pm

Are you talking about people playing games as warez or using game cracks?

Warez = theft.

Cracks are often used in conjunction with theft or "sharing" but there are legitimate uses for game cracks. I crack almost all of my games because when I go to a LAN party, I don't want to have to take a CD case full of disks and have to search through it to find the one I needs.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:45 pm

Originally posted by Audace
Because they overcharge......well not with games i always pay for those, but for music anyways....

And is that sufficient reason for one to steal? You can also decide not to buy music. You don't steal an expensive car which you want to have just because it's so darn expensive, now do you?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:51 pm

Originally posted by Therion
You don't steal an expensive car which you want to have just because it's so darn expensive, now do you?

Do people not steal their neighbour's Lexus because they feel it's immoral or because they can't?

Given the opportunity, a lot of people would steal an expensive car just as they steal music via a P2P file sharing program. I don't think people are more moral when it comes to cars as opposed to music, but that it's simply harder to steal a BMW or a Jaguar than it is to download an .mp3.

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Mon May 10, 2004 5:54 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Do people not steal their neighbour's Lexus because they feel it's immoral or because they can't?

Given the opportunity, a lot of people would steal an expensive car just as they steal music via a P2P file sharing program. I don't think people are more moral when it comes to cars as opposed to music, but that it's simply harder to steal a BMW or a Jaguar than it is to download an .mp3.

Hah, yeah.. you got me there. I should know that.. but I'm just a poor ol' idealist.. it's not easy to believe for me.

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Mon May 10, 2004 8:51 pm

I have an ISO backup of my ToB cd on my HDD which I mount with Daemon Tools to play. I realize that with recent legislature in a lot of countries, what I am doing is unexcusable "theft ot intellectual property," though all I am doing is trying to prevent complete destruction of my already-very-scratched, legally-purchased ToB CD.

-kaitsuburi (dirty thief)

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:08 am

Heh.. I'd say that's different (of course the law may not).

I mean, I at one time had a CD cracked (in half, yes), so I had to buy a new one.. so I had to pay twice for one game.

Indeed, the guys other side probably make such statements in the disclaimers because they want us to buy more. Want to play a dvd in a school? Have to buy a new one. Want to play music (which you have but not on a cd) on a cd? Have to buy a new one.

I am aware that this is all how it 'should be done' but it sounds rather illogical to me. Of course, by my own words I should play by the rules.. but hey, I'm only human. I'm a hypocrite, so what?

Keshik · Post by **Keshik** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:18 am

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
I have an ISO backup of my ToB cd on my HDD which I mount with Daemon Tools to play. I realize that with recent legislature in a lot of countries, what I am doing is unexcusable "theft ot intellectual property," though all I am doing is trying to prevent complete destruction of my already-very-scratched, legally-purchased ToB CD.

-kaitsuburi (dirty thief)

I did that too. Why? Because I got sick of always having to switch the cd in and out everytime I loaded the game. So I just mounted the ToB, and kept the BG2 cd in the drive. Made things much easier. Is that illegal? I sure hope not.

Moonbiter · Post by **Moonbiter** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:08 am

I could get ANYTHING, and I mean anything I want in a matter of hours, but I don't. Why? Well, when it comes to MP3s the quality of the sound is offensive to my ears. When it comes to games, I just love to have the cover, the manual and the other goodies standing on my shelf. The only thing I occasionally get are rare DVDs that for some reason won't be made available over here, and that is extremely rare.

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:19 am

And how about supporting software (game) developers? I don't buy a lot of music in general because I feel that the RIAA is ripping off both me and artists. I buy a few, quality things and play games a lot

With games, though, a large chunk of the money goes in the company and a hugely successful game is likely to have sequels, etc. Well, unless the company ceases to exist

-kaitsuburi

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:41 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Cracks are often used in conjunction with theft or "sharing" but there are legitimate uses for game cracks. I crack almost all of my games because when I go to a LAN party, I don't want to have to take a CD case full of disks and have to search through it to find the one I needs.

@HLD, you are doing it right. You got the originals and copy for yourself, and that is copy right.

Because they overcharge......well not with games i always pay for those, but for music anyways....

@Audace, I dont know, but i sense there is a direct connection between piracy and higher prices. Cd tech was expensive, it is no longer, but billions of dollars are thrown out because of piracy.

I have an ISO backup of my ToB cd on my HDD which I mount with Daemon Tools to play. I realize that with recent legislature in a lot of countries, what I am doing is unexcusable "theft ot intellectual property," though all I am doing is trying to prevent complete destruction of my already-very-scratched, legally-purchased ToB CD.

I have a copy of my BG, SOA and TOB cd's for playing purposes. The originals got only a few small scratches, and the copys are almost gone. I mean, you're not a dirty thief... as long as you dont distribute.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:53 am

Every Music CDR since the AHRA was enacted has a hidden tax built into the price! (2% of the manufacturers sales) This is supposedly to pay the artists for home recording. Who Collects the Tax? The RIAA under the auspices of the AARC. Who shares office space with the RIAA and has many of the RIAA employees working for it. I haven't been able to find one artist that was paid a cent of the money. 4% is set aside for non-featured artists, of the remainder 40% for the featured artist and 60% for the labels. To date I have not found one artist who has received one cent of this money. (Source: RIAA website) In addition every CD recorder has a $2.00 surcharge built into the price that goes directly to the RIAA
The artists received not one cent of the money from the MP3.Com settlements of approx $158 Million to the labels. Who did??? The label themselves.

"SoundExchange" the new digital rights collective for collecting royalties from internet play is a division of the RIAA. They did not distribute royalties in July 2001 as they were supposed to do, but instead decided to wait until next year.

85% of all music is released by 5 major labels (Sony, EMI, UMG, Time Warner, & BMG)
Federal Trade Commission (FTC Statement)

At any given point about 20% of the music every recorded is available legally. The rest is locked away by the labels depriving the creators of a potential source of income, the fans of the music they want, while creating a false market for the band "d'jour."

The RIAA on their website say the cost of CD's haven't risen as much as they could have read our take it.

Read the settlement statement of the FTC findings against the Big 5
concerning charges that all five companies illegally modified their existing cooperative advertising programs to induce retailers into charging consumers higher prices for CDs

In 1999 music sales were up 11% not down
Testimony of Hank Barry quoting a RIAA survey
Chief Executive Officer
Napster, Inc.
Before the Senate Judiciary Committee

In the first quarter of 2000 music sales are up 8% over last year
Testimony of Hank Barry
Chief Executive Officer
Napster, Inc.
Before the Senate Judiciary Committee

Only companies can join the RIAA, they do nothing for the independent musician.
RIAA website guidelines for membership

Companies such as Napster and MP3.Com can't join RIAA due to the lawsuits brought by RIAA.

We can control the distribution of music, by not buying any and boycotting the labels other businesses as well.

See where the money really goes Steve Albini (producer of Nirvana's "In Utero)

Interesting comment from Fox Entertainment Group (FOX) Chief Executive Peter Chernin, who has about as much of a clue as Jack Valenti:
"Film makers can offer their audience a choice of ways to see movies -- they can view them in the theater, rent them, or buy them" "Music companies are much less flexible." "It's hard to buy one song. You're forced to buy the CD," he said.

"I'd like to introduce the recording industry to something called bottled water," Jonathan Potter, executive director of Digital Media Association, said in a recent interview commenting on Free vs Fee online music. His lobbying group represents music sites that are trying to promote and sell music over the Internet.

It is not correct to assume that every time a copy is made, a sale is lost, said Gary Shapiro, a spokesman for the Consumer Electronics Association. And, he also pointed out that many of the companies he represents, which make computers and other gadgets that enable people to copy music or download MP3s, have seen their sales fall much more sharply.

Piracy has not affected the Music industry as they would like you to think, in that same sense cassete tapes should have broken the market. I used to work at a Tower Records and my best pal because a distributer or whatever his job was. We used to go through all the facts over and over. How much it costs to produce a CD the amount of time spent on making the cd, how much money goes to where... etc. They forced prices increases on places like tower records like thugs would do... I'll get that info soon.

Imagine a music cd with 2 hours of music, better sound better disc quality with another hour of hidden special extra stuff etc whatever the point is DVD's cost as much as CD's in a lot of markets. The music industry rips you off... sure I dont download music like I used too, just because every mp3 player i buy sucks so Im back to my stereo...

And I like a lot of grass root bands so I buy thier cd's so they can try to have a carreer. But don't think Piracy costs them money in the sense they lie about...

@Gaming. I think Warez is just a side effect of the web, much like HLD said... if the web could ship you cars anonymously from dealer ships... I'd probably have a lexus.

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:59 am

Originally posted by Luis Antonio
I have a copy of my BG, SOA and TOB cd's for playing purposes. The originals got only a few small scratches, and the copys are almost gone. I mean, you're not a dirty thief... as long as you dont distribute.

As long as common sense is concerned, I am not a thief (obviously), but laws are not a straightforward thing (a lot of money interests are vested in those who make the laws), unfortunately.

By circumventing copy protection even on stuff that I legally own is considered a violation of the DCMA in its current state, isn't it?

-kaitsuburi

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:25 am

Originally posted by Kaitsuburi
As long as common sense is concerned, I am not a thief (obviously),
-kaitsuburi

Oh, sorry, I forgot a

smile...

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:37 am

This topic is discussed almost monthly under one pretext or another and since piracy is heavily shunned on those boards the resoponse is always pretty one-sided.

Originally posted by Therion
Ask them.. I don't know as well. Personally i don't download music as well (except when it's free), for example.

It's a certain mind set, I think. But.. ask them. They know.

Some people, I do know, just don't care about other's property.

The music downloading is a 'good' sign: when it becomes easy to break the law and the risk seems small morals and the law goes out the window in favour of free music.

I often marvel at why it's hard for people to comprehend why pirates do it. Allow me to answer this question once and for all. Because it's free.
There I said it. It's almost instinctive for a man to buy the products which provide the greatest value at the lowest cost, and I would have thought Luis being an economist would quickly recognize this. As the supply of something becomes near-infinite, the price automatically approaches zero.

And before anyone becomes self-righteous and takes the moral high-ground by mentioning thievery (too late, I think), think what thievery is for a second. I'll help you think by helpfully providing a definition.

Theft - the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

according to Merriam-webster

Theft - the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession

according to Collins English Dictionary.

When someone downloads something he doesn't deprive anyone else of anything... except maybe some bandwidth but that is given with the consent of whoever you're downloading that something. Downloading music is therefore not thieft.

Originally posted by Moonbiter:
I could get ANYTHING, and I mean anything I want in a matter of hours, but I don't. Why? Well, when it comes to MP3s the quality of the sound is offensive to my ears. When it comes to games, I just love to have the cover, the manual and the other goodies standing on my shelf. The only thing I occasionally get are rare DVDs that for some reason won't be made available over here, and that is extremely rare.

Congratulations! If you can spot a difference big enough for you to consider offensive between a 192kbps MP3 and a CD you might have the best ears in the world. Interestingly enough, music companies seem to think that 128kbps MP3s are good enough as 128kbps is the standard format provided at online music stores.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:07 am

I'm pretty sure board rules are strict on the amount about Piracy we speak off. I could go on for days about the scene how things are done and why... the why is easy on most levels. Free. Some deeper... like friends I know who only pirate music because of the obscene costs... of course with Itunes and such now adays a lot of thier points are moot.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:14 pm

Originally posted by RandomThug
I'm pretty sure board rules are strict on the amount about Piracy we speak off. I could go on for days about the scene how things are done and why... the why is easy on most levels. Free. Some deeper... like friends I know who only pirate music because of the obscene costs... of course with Itunes and such now adays a lot of thier points are moot.

What I still find pretty interesting is the low bitrate of MP3s provided by iTunes like services. I guess that bandwidth shouldn't be such a big problem, so I'm quite curious of the reasons for the low bitrate MP3s provided by paid services