This is going to be a long rant and this is going to have some things it that some people to do not want to read because it may have some spoilers in it so read at your own risk.
I did write a small fraction of the a review about this game already but, I felt a much more clarifying definition on what I thought about the game would make me feel better in some ways.
The TOEE has some good parts and some bad parts. For starts the game is very well done on visual and sound effects. It is really neat that you are able to build your character to your specifications. How ever I felt as though choosing only 5 characters for your party was a bit dumb to be blunt. If you can choose up to playing 8 (5 yours and 3 Npcs) you should be able to build 8 characters for your party. Just as well if you choose only to have 4 in your party and so on. This was the only thing in the character building process I felt as though should have been thought over again.
When you enter Omelet for the first time you think perhaps it will be over runned with all sorts of critters. How ever you spend a good chunk of the game running around helping other people out. Now if you choose an evil party why would they help the towns’ people out? There should be no reason. It was so boring running around gathering XP just to get to the next level in order for you to be strong enough to go and kill things. I yawned my way through the various Xp adventures and was thankful I was able to do some killing.
Speaking of these Xp adventures let’s start with Emory Meadows. Talk about a waste of time. You wander around this almost deserted meadow for what? You get to kill some zombies, skeletal gnolls, a bear and a hill giant. **slaps her face** WOW **then rolls her eyes** pleeeaaaasee. I would have thought there would have been more too this meadow area that had once been a battle field. Much lengthier and more like a dungeon level but done on the outside. Then going to the Dekko Grove was even more pathetic. Melany talks to you about Ocher Jellies being there. How ever you run into 2 Spiders instead. For a low level party they can be challenging but that’s not the point. The point is with various options on going to these places you should have a much more prolonged time in doing these quests instead of wham bam thank you mam.
The Npcs in the game where well worth having in some parts. I would have preferred to make my own characters. First off the Npcs’ should allow you to see their stats. Your pretty much walking blind and wandering what they have. I think if you have the option to change there spells around you should have the option to see what you can improve on there armor etc. As for the Npcs’ there looting is horrible. Atari should have fixed this problem with the first patch released to the public. Other then those things Npcs are not too bad.
As you finally get to the Moat House you think your going to have to fight your way all the way to TOEE.; sort of. You get to the Moat House and you encounter frogs, interesting. Then you fight some guards and various other creatures. This is just me but the Moat House was just a disappointment. I thought I was going to have to spend weeks or even a month just to get out of there. Instead I did it all in a matter of a couple of hours. It was small and a few Bug Bears here and Gnolls there. The boss was over all pathetic he just stood there and took his punches. I like bosses that are challenging and I wasn’t impressed with Larenth the beautiful at all.
After beating the Moat House and arriving in Nub I was surprised about how small it was. A few quests to do here and then it’s off the TOEE. **Sighs** I was hoping to venture off to other towns or other dungeons before getting to TOEE. I was hoping that Atari would beef up the original TOEE game for the PC Game. The TOEE was good but the problem is the last level. There is nothing in the final level but some fungus and an empty chest. WOW….**rolls her eyes.** There are many more problems with this game like if you play a Bard there is no place to purchase a musical instrument. If you wish to have more bolts instead of arrows you cannot buy these but only to pick them off the dead bodies of those you killed.
There are only a few places you can even go and purchase items. For example with Burne he sells some good scrolls but, once you take them he doesn’t get a different or a fresh supply. There is no one else you can buy scrolls from for you Wizard or Sorceress. You do have the option to scribe scrolls on your own as a feat but what if you don’t want to have this feat then you’re screwed. So you have to take these feat other wise your going to just have the handful of spells you pick through out the rest of the game.
Even further in the game there is no one that sells magical rings or anything to up your spell resistance. Case in point most of the creatures that are poisonous are early in the game. There are a few down the line but my point is by the time you have enough money to purchase the only necklace of proof against poison it isn’t even worth it. There should have been more shops and various other places to go. You had two choices Nub or Omelet, that’s it. It was boring seeing those two towns over and over. Personally once I got done with all the quests I wanted to leave ASAP. Instead I had to trample back there in order to rest. You cannot rest anywhere in temple aside from the room in which you rescued the pirate on Level 1 of Temple. You once in a great while do get attacked maybe by some guards but that’s about it. Instead you have to go all the way back to these towns and then all the way back.
Finally the over all leveling of your characters to ten and that’s it. That’s really annoying. I love leveling my characters up to make them better, bigger and stronger. By the time you get to the Water Node your party should be tenth level. After that you go talk to some old hag and the game ends. There shouldn’t be a limit on what level your party stays at and in doing so the creatures become harder and much more difficult to kill. You even further should have the chance after the game is done to go back into the game with your party at whatever level you are but the monsters become harder then before and again get to level your party up as you choose.
My over all problem with the game as with a lot of you is the bugs. I have noticed numerous amounts of bugs but was able to over come them and still manage to play the game. It was very disappointing that the cinematics skipped like crazy and didn’t play smoothly. People will say that Atari was quick to get this game out on the market and I agree with that after playing this game. Don’t get me wrong it is a decent game and fun just it could have been better. Atari needs to understand that many companies are wanting to get there games out on the market quickly for the public to enjoy. Like the new Zelda game many people want to play this game and have wrote Nintendo asking all kinds of questions. Nintendo isn’t stupid. There game Zelda has lasted this long because they take there time with it and make it as enjoyable as possible. Same goes for Diablo, beautiful game by the way. You cannot sell a product to the public with half arse games in which are filled with bugs. This makes the public angry and draws them away from purchasing any products with the logo Atari on its box. Would I ever buy an Atari game again? Probably not.
My final statement is this. For those who like short games TOEE is defiantly for you. It even so much seeps into the crowd of people who do not like games with a twisting ending or a surprise one. In my previous post I gave TOEE a 7 and I stand my ground on that. The game should have been done better and the company should have ignored the rants from fans and made it the best game they possibly could hope for. Instead they have got nothing but bashing and nasty reviews on the game. If Atari plans on making TOEE an expansion or a second one taking your time on it would make the game more enjoyable at least for me. Trust me ticking people off and snatching $50.00 from under there noses and given them some entertainment that isn’t even 100 % fun sends even more hate mail to the company.
I think too that the bugs will always be there and Atari has no consideration for any of us. The way I see it they blame us. If it wasn’t for us ranting about getting this game out sooner perhaps it would have better. How ever it is there fault because they could have simply ignored us like I said. I just felt as though the game should have been better, longer and more battles and demons to fight. Instead I got nothing more then a game that bored me in more places. Atari needs to understand the reason why other companies are kicking there butts is because they know when too listen to the fans and when not to listen to the fans. Give the fans what they want in the game but don’t give the fans the game that is not all the way done and disappoint them in most places.
Ranting Review
-
Lime_Jello24
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:02 am
- Location: Tinley Park, IL
- Contact:
Ranting Review
~"Fire Ball'ing them is the only way to be sure"~
A long review deserves a long reply!
Read read your review and I have a few comments. Firstly let em say that myself, as well as a lot of other people, agree with you about atari. They just didn't do a very good job with this game.
Having said that, it sounds like when you bought this game you were expecting a big expansive game that covers ground on the scale of Baldur's Gate 2 or Diablo 2. You gotta remember that those games came on multiple discs, ToEE has only 1. The good people over at troika were aiming at capturing the original PnP module, not trying to create some huge, grand adventure and on the whole I think they did pretty good.
They added a lot of side quests and such in the 2 towns that weren't in the original module. The 2 towns are there for one purpose really, to rest and restock as you attempt to clear out the moathouse and the temple. The moathouse was a lot more involved in the original game, you enter as a party of 1st level and exit at about 3rd or 4th. I think they toned the moathouse down to satisfy the crowd that likes running around interacting with NPC's and doing side quests.
You also have to remember that Nulb and Hommlett are extremely small towns in the grand scheme of things and a lot of what you would find in a large city just isn't readily available in them. I do wonder why the blacksmith can make anything he wants except sling bullets and bolts though. That's where item creation feats come in handy.
As for the whole level limit, I personally didn't much like it either. But if you think about it, if you play straight through the game without stopping to rest for days on end for leveling purposes. You wouldn't really get much past level 10 anyway. If memory serves it's only supposed to go to about level 13 or 14 or thereabouts.
It's also worthy to note that 3rd ED is geared for a party of 4 characters. In ToEE you get an extra 'swing' character and 3 npc's. In all the years I have been playing D&D it is very rare for a Dm to reveal ANY information about NPC's. You get a name, level, class, and sometimes (not usually though) thier alignment. The Dm controls them, picks thier spells, weapons, feats, etc. It all plays in to troika's attempt to capture the feel and play of PnP D&D. And on that front I think they nailed it.
I think that ToEE was intended to be an intro, or stepping stone, into bigger and more expansive games. Unfortunatly, the fallout this game has gotten due to it being so incomplete and buggy, I really don't see Atari fronting the money for another game using this engine. And that's sad, cuz I for one thought that it could have been a huge franchise. It really could have put both Atari and Troika on the map.
Read read your review and I have a few comments. Firstly let em say that myself, as well as a lot of other people, agree with you about atari. They just didn't do a very good job with this game.
Having said that, it sounds like when you bought this game you were expecting a big expansive game that covers ground on the scale of Baldur's Gate 2 or Diablo 2. You gotta remember that those games came on multiple discs, ToEE has only 1. The good people over at troika were aiming at capturing the original PnP module, not trying to create some huge, grand adventure and on the whole I think they did pretty good.
They added a lot of side quests and such in the 2 towns that weren't in the original module. The 2 towns are there for one purpose really, to rest and restock as you attempt to clear out the moathouse and the temple. The moathouse was a lot more involved in the original game, you enter as a party of 1st level and exit at about 3rd or 4th. I think they toned the moathouse down to satisfy the crowd that likes running around interacting with NPC's and doing side quests.
You also have to remember that Nulb and Hommlett are extremely small towns in the grand scheme of things and a lot of what you would find in a large city just isn't readily available in them. I do wonder why the blacksmith can make anything he wants except sling bullets and bolts though. That's where item creation feats come in handy.
As for the whole level limit, I personally didn't much like it either. But if you think about it, if you play straight through the game without stopping to rest for days on end for leveling purposes. You wouldn't really get much past level 10 anyway. If memory serves it's only supposed to go to about level 13 or 14 or thereabouts.
It's also worthy to note that 3rd ED is geared for a party of 4 characters. In ToEE you get an extra 'swing' character and 3 npc's. In all the years I have been playing D&D it is very rare for a Dm to reveal ANY information about NPC's. You get a name, level, class, and sometimes (not usually though) thier alignment. The Dm controls them, picks thier spells, weapons, feats, etc. It all plays in to troika's attempt to capture the feel and play of PnP D&D. And on that front I think they nailed it.
I think that ToEE was intended to be an intro, or stepping stone, into bigger and more expansive games. Unfortunatly, the fallout this game has gotten due to it being so incomplete and buggy, I really don't see Atari fronting the money for another game using this engine. And that's sad, cuz I for one thought that it could have been a huge franchise. It really could have put both Atari and Troika on the map.
I have the heart of a small boy,
I keep in a jar on my desk.
I keep in a jar on my desk.
Re: A long review deserves a long reply!
I can understand the point about making it like a DM making an NPC and you wouldn't know stuff about him/her, but I think that's part of the problem. They tried to make a PC RPG into a PnP-type RPG, and I don't think that can work.
I mean, when I recruit a character, I don't think it's too unreasonable to know what that character can do before I get into a life-and-death battle to realize that this character shouldn't touch a sword with a 10-foot quarterstaff.
Maybe I'm more into console RPGs/Strategy games and other PC RPGs like Wizardry that don't hide info about the characters you can recruit, but I just don't see the benefit of not letting the players customize these characters or at the least see their abilities without doing trial and error or having to hunt around like checking their attack modifier to figure out their STR rating. Or working Meleny all the way to level 10, only to find out she'll never get 5th level magic because her WIS is only 14.
As for the points in Lime Jello's review:
All that side, I love this game. It reminds me of the days where I played the old "Gold Box" games and have gotten into Icewind Dale because of this game making me look at D&D RPGs again.
The combat themes in this game are wonderful and the battle system is great, imo. I also like the ring menus and the set up of the character inventory and information. Hommlet's theme is really peaceful (it's too bad I never heard the combat theme for Hommlet at all in the game, because when I played the mp3, it was very nice)
Being able to see the rolls my character made and why exactly they failed/succeeded was a great touch too. I can't count how many times I would change things before the next fight if my fighter struggled too much or made a note to take a feat to increase my saves because they were failing too much.
I didn't mind the town quests, but then again, I played a NG party. I thought it was interesting catching a cheater to get a free room at the inn, or figuring out how to convince to convert someone so that they can marry Meleny's sister so you can get Meleny.
Nulb was pretty disappointing though. I found the people like..too nice or something. I mean if Nulb is a town where "only bad people go" as Meleny so innocently says, then why aren't they all that mean? They have a brothel, and slavery (Serena) but one of the fishermen asks you to catch a fish for him like you and him were good buddies? And why did they make Hruda so ugly?
Heh Lareth hurt my party pretty bad. I think I beat him the first time only because my fighter got a critical hit on him. Then I took him up on his offer, figuring to use him to get to the temple, then drop him, but he was setting a trap for me. Gah! But that was pretty slick, not to mention that battle was a challenge.
I really started enjoying the game when I got to the TOEE itself. It IS huge, and it took me a lot of time to clear it out (and apperantly I didn't get everything since I don't have some of the weapons you can get from there!) Lots of fights, and I love fighting in this game
It's a very good game, and yes, it's a shame about the bugs because it would be a great game. In fact, the Co8 patch along with the official one makes this game really good.
It's too bad that the best mods for a game come from fans of the game these days. I AM surprised that the makers of the game was Troika. Arcanum was a very solid game and when I saw their name on this game, I was like, "woot, this is gonna be good." Well, it is good, but it should have been much better.
I can understand the point about making it like a DM making an NPC and you wouldn't know stuff about him/her, but I think that's part of the problem. They tried to make a PC RPG into a PnP-type RPG, and I don't think that can work.
I mean, when I recruit a character, I don't think it's too unreasonable to know what that character can do before I get into a life-and-death battle to realize that this character shouldn't touch a sword with a 10-foot quarterstaff.
Maybe I'm more into console RPGs/Strategy games and other PC RPGs like Wizardry that don't hide info about the characters you can recruit, but I just don't see the benefit of not letting the players customize these characters or at the least see their abilities without doing trial and error or having to hunt around like checking their attack modifier to figure out their STR rating. Or working Meleny all the way to level 10, only to find out she'll never get 5th level magic because her WIS is only 14.
As for the points in Lime Jello's review:
All that side, I love this game. It reminds me of the days where I played the old "Gold Box" games and have gotten into Icewind Dale because of this game making me look at D&D RPGs again.
The combat themes in this game are wonderful and the battle system is great, imo. I also like the ring menus and the set up of the character inventory and information. Hommlet's theme is really peaceful (it's too bad I never heard the combat theme for Hommlet at all in the game, because when I played the mp3, it was very nice)
Being able to see the rolls my character made and why exactly they failed/succeeded was a great touch too. I can't count how many times I would change things before the next fight if my fighter struggled too much or made a note to take a feat to increase my saves because they were failing too much.
I didn't mind the town quests, but then again, I played a NG party. I thought it was interesting catching a cheater to get a free room at the inn, or figuring out how to convince to convert someone so that they can marry Meleny's sister so you can get Meleny.
Nulb was pretty disappointing though. I found the people like..too nice or something. I mean if Nulb is a town where "only bad people go" as Meleny so innocently says, then why aren't they all that mean? They have a brothel, and slavery (Serena) but one of the fishermen asks you to catch a fish for him like you and him were good buddies? And why did they make Hruda so ugly?
Heh Lareth hurt my party pretty bad. I think I beat him the first time only because my fighter got a critical hit on him. Then I took him up on his offer, figuring to use him to get to the temple, then drop him, but he was setting a trap for me. Gah! But that was pretty slick, not to mention that battle was a challenge.
I really started enjoying the game when I got to the TOEE itself. It IS huge, and it took me a lot of time to clear it out (and apperantly I didn't get everything since I don't have some of the weapons you can get from there!) Lots of fights, and I love fighting in this game
It's a very good game, and yes, it's a shame about the bugs because it would be a great game. In fact, the Co8 patch along with the official one makes this game really good.
It's too bad that the best mods for a game come from fans of the game these days. I AM surprised that the makers of the game was Troika. Arcanum was a very solid game and when I saw their name on this game, I was like, "woot, this is gonna be good." Well, it is good, but it should have been much better.
-
Lime_Jello24
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:02 am
- Location: Tinley Park, IL
- Contact:
Sorry it took so long to reply to these boards and this post.
I allowed my honey to read this review since he has been playing D&D since they first came out. He and I both agreed that taking a pen and paper game the way TOEE is played you cannot expect it to be good in a game.
Case in point, if your going to take any pen and paper game make sure you don't do it as it would be for it. Make it larger, longer and better.
But thats just over all are opinon.
I allowed my honey to read this review since he has been playing D&D since they first came out. He and I both agreed that taking a pen and paper game the way TOEE is played you cannot expect it to be good in a game.
Case in point, if your going to take any pen and paper game make sure you don't do it as it would be for it. Make it larger, longer and better.
But thats just over all are opinon.
~"Fire Ball'ing them is the only way to be sure"~
But if you do that, then you need to start adding stuff that wasn't there to begin with, and then it starts to cease to be what it was intended. They kinda already did that with all the side quests in the 2 towns, if it hadn't been for those the game play would have been cut drastically. I still think that it was intended to be almost an experiment to see how well the engine would work with the 3.5 rule set.
Unfortuanalty the fall out has been so bad from all the bugs I really don't see Atari touching another project with this engine. There has been a lot of talk about modding tools which would allow people to create thier own content, hopefully Atari will allow that too happen.
Unfortuanalty the fall out has been so bad from all the bugs I really don't see Atari touching another project with this engine. There has been a lot of talk about modding tools which would allow people to create thier own content, hopefully Atari will allow that too happen.
I have the heart of a small boy,
I keep in a jar on my desk.
I keep in a jar on my desk.