Darkfire or Firetooth? [SPOILERS]

Imperator · Post by **Imperator** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:12 am

I can't decide how to use the bowstring of Gond. My PC is a paladin (inquisitor) with two proficiency points in crossbows, equiped with the Firetooth +4 crossbow for ranged attacks. I also have Imoen in my party, currently equiped with the Gesen shortbow. My PC almost never uses his crossbow (since he is my main tank who also happens to wield Carsomyr +6) while Imoen uses her bow almost all the time. Should I upgrade the Darkfire +4 shortbow or the Firetooth +4 crossbow?

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:26 am

Firetooth, IMO. Darkfire gives a chance of elemental damage, but if you hit with Firetooth, you do elemental damage.

Somthing · Post by **Somthing** » Wed May 19, 2004 8:26 am

I think you have already made up your decision. It appears you have little use for upgrading the firetooth. And the few times you do use it you still have it at the unmodified version.

Give it to immy and give her the added bonus as she will use it more. Firetooth without upgrading is still a great Xbow.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:33 am

Well..

MY 2gp says upgrade Darkfire, given that you use firetooth so rarely.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed May 19, 2004 1:19 pm

Re: Well..

Originally posted by nephtu
MY 2gp says upgrade Darkfire, given that you use firetooth so rarely.

That's a good point. If you're not going to use the crossbow, are you really just asking us for confirmation? Or do you want a serious evaluation of each weapon?

Besides, I'm sure UserUnfriendly could show us all four different ways each could be used to take out every boss in the game. :rolleyes:

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:25 am

Re: Re: Well..

Originally posted by fable
Besides, I'm sure UserUnfriendly could show us all four different ways each could be used to take out every boss in the game.

LOL! And teach you how to turn your pc into a mind flaying greater beholder/lich with 100% resistance to everything at the same time.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:55 am

In my opinion Gesen is much better than Darkfire, even upgraded, so keep Gesen for Imoen. That mean although you don't use it much upgrade Firetooth, also because you will be shooting +5 bullets with it and that can be handy in certain occasion.

Dueller · Post by **Dueller** » Thu May 20, 2004 4:54 pm

Originally posted by lompo
In my opinion Gesen is much better than Darkfire, even upgraded, so keep Gesen for Imoen. That mean although you don't use it much upgrade Firetooth, also because you will be shooting +5 bullets with it and that can be handy in certain occasion.

I HATE the Gesen bow - those electro-arrows move so slowly! I prefer Tansheron's bow any day.

I'd suggest upgrading a missile weapon if it's being used by a character with a low AC that is best off fighting from a distance (like a mage or low-level thief). If you're a well-armoured Paladin with a decent weapon (like Carsomyr), where's the fun of shooting from a distance? Besides - fighters and paladins tend to have great THAC0s to begin with. Adding an extra THAC0 point to a missile weapon hardly makes a difference for them, whereas extra THAC0 for a mage or a thief is always an advantage.

I recently starting killing dragons solo with a high-level fighter/thief using Carsomyr, and since then the gloss has gone out of using spiked traps to kill from a safe distance...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:30 pm

Re: Re: Well..

Originally posted by fable
That's a good point. If you're not going to use the crossbow, are you really just asking us for confirmation? Or do you want a serious evaluation of each weapon?

Besides, I'm sure UserUnfriendly could show us all four different ways each could be used to take out every boss in the game.

firetooth...

you want as high a thac0 enhancing bow to make up for immy's sucky to hit thac0...and since gesen already exists in the game, you really want a good powerful crossbow too...

for firing kuo tuan stun bolts...

bolts and arrows of biting are pretty hard to come by in the game, even if you buy all you can...so it makes sense to have two weapons so if you have biting bolts but just ran out of biting arrows, you can switch easily...

both gesen and firetooth can fire unmagical arrows and bolts carrying elemental damage that punches thru protection from magic weapons and stoneskin, disrupting mages...

darkfire gives you the ability to cast improved haste, which imoen won't need cause she's a mage...

just give imoen a single proficiency point in crossbows, and you will be happy...

i usually have her with gesen in one slot, and either firetooth or crossbow of speed in other slot...

since minsc my archer has the firetooth...

the firetooth, and either mazzy or minsc with points in crossbows do a wonderful job of mowing down tough monsters at range...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:31 pm

Re: Re: Re: Well..

Originally posted by Coot
LOL! And teach you how to turn your pc into a mind flaying greater beholder/lich with 100% resistance to everything at the same time.

yeah, but what would be the point??

my pc is much much much more powerful than a mere lich...or mindflayer or greater beholder...

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:06 am

Originally posted by Dueller
I HATE the Gesen bow - those electro-arrows move so slowly! I prefer Tansheron's bow any day.

I'd suggest upgrading a missile weapon if it's being used by a character with a low AC that is best off fighting from a distance (like a mage or low-level thief). If you're a well-armoured Paladin with a decent weapon (like Carsomyr), where's the fun of shooting from a distance? Besides - fighters and paladins tend to have great THAC0s to begin with. Adding an extra THAC0 point to a missile weapon hardly makes a difference for them, whereas extra THAC0 for a mage or a thief is always an advantage.

I recently starting killing dragons solo with a high-level fighter/thief using Carsomyr, and since then the gloss has gone out of using spiked traps to kill from a safe distance...

The arrows that Gesen shoots seems travel slowly, but you will still get the same number of attack/rnd that you get with Tansheron or any other bow (Tuigan excl.), plus if you equip arrows with Gesen you will shoot them and you will add the elemental dmg (and the arrows travel fast as the other bows), finally Gesen is the only bow that can shoot arrows with +4 ench..
You can like it or not, but Gesen is the best bow in the game (with Tuigan, but only for fighter/archers type) and for me
is a waste not to use it.
As for the fact that melee fighter don't use ranged weapon I don't agree, thay don't use them "often", but in certain occasion is very useful, specially if your spelcasters cast AoE spells or if there are bottleneck which with only one fighter you can obstruct, youe other fighter can shoot with Firetooth (with GW!!!).

Kaitsuburi · Post by **Kaitsuburi** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:55 am

Re: Re: Re: Well..

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly

for firing kuo tuan stun bolts...

Those are really nice, but does anyone know why they are so heavy? All other bolts have 0 weight (ease-of-use infinite stacking is installed) while I can never carry more than 150 stun-bolts or so even with str.19 characters :confused:

-kaitsuburi

Dueller · Post by **Dueller** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:23 pm

Originally posted by lompo
The arrows that Gesen shoots seems travel slowly, but you will still get the same number of attack/rnd that you get with Tansheron or any other bow

Sure - but by the time the elemental arrows get to where they're going, the target is often already dead (and even if it isn't, Mazzy is probably the only NPC that has a decent shortbow THAC0).

Originally posted by lompo
Plus if you equip arrows with Gesen you will shoot them and you will add the elemental dmg (and the arrows travel fast as the other bows)

It sort of defeats the purpose of having a bow that requires no ammo if you actually use ammo...

I don't pay much attention to shortbows. If I have Mazzy in my party, I give her Tansheron's bow (there are actually two of them - both with different icons but identicle descriptions). If I don't have Mazzy, then I equip Tansheron's with Imoen and pretty much forget about it. If I have both Imoen and Nalia, then Nalia usually ends up with Gessen's (and is crap with it). With no need for ammo, I just set their scripts to 'ranged attack' and leave them to their own devices until I need a spell cast. They sometimes even manage to hit something.

I usually treat mages with the contempt they deserve - sure they're good for summoning creatures and removing spell protections, but I prefer the satisfaction of hacking or bashing opponents to death. Half the time I leave my entire party somewhere safe and have my PC do everything solo. "The Drow rule supreme" my arse! And every time I "Prepare to be eviserated" it never happens.

Originally posted by lompo
As for the fact that melee fighter don't use ranged weapon I don't agree, thay don't use them "often", but in certain occasion is very useful

I prefer returning throwing axes as missile weapons for melee fighters, as they can be used with a shield. The Azuredge always comes in handy (especially with the undead, but even against giant golems), and in ToB you get an even better throwing axe from the smugglers' cave in Amkethran.

Imperator · Post by **Imperator** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:51 am

Thanks for your replies. I decided to upgrade Firetooth, because I like to equip my PC with the best weapons available. Also, I like the idea of having both a good bow (Gesen's) AND a good crossbow (Firetooth). But I guess it doesn't matter all that much since I prefer hacking my enemies to pieces instead of using ranged/magical attacks. I have to agree with Dueller on this one.
For me too, mages are only good for summoning creatures and removing spell/combat protections. With the right equipment (powerful weapons in addition to items that give a good THAC0), nothing is more powerful than a straightforward melee attack (especiallially when combined with improved hasted/greater whirlwind attack).

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun May 23, 2004 5:05 pm

Originally posted by Imperator
Thanks for your replies. I decided to upgrade Firetooth, because I like to equip my PC with the best weapons available. Also, I like the idea of having both a good bow (Gesen's) AND a good crossbow (Firetooth). But I guess it doesn't matter all that much since I prefer hacking my enemies to pieces instead of using ranged/magical attacks. I have to agree with Dueller on this one.
For me too, mages are only good for summoning creatures and removing spell/combat protections. With the right equipment (powerful weapons in addition to items that give a good THAC0), nothing is more powerful than a straightforward melee attack (especiallially when combined with improved hasted/greater whirlwind attack).

sorcerors rule...

Imperator · Post by **Imperator** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:08 pm

I finally finished ToB. It seems like my question was rather pointless, given the fact that I finished my game a few days (both real and game time) after starting this thread. I think I used my crossbow exactly twice after upgrading it.

Actually (somewhat unrelated to this topic, but hey), there are lots of things I rarely or never used while playing BG2.... Like potions (except for healing/detox of course), many types of arrows, bullets and bolts, and about 1 zillion scrolls/spells (I mean, how many times have you actually casted a spell like 'colorspray' or 'goodberries'?). I didn't even use spells like '(improved) haste' or 'lower resistance' on more than a few occasions (like maybe 4 or 5) in the entire game. But that could just be me, being too lazy to learn how to use spells more effectively.... But then again, why bother when you can hack and slash your way through the game so easily (especially when the HLA's kick in)? Nevermind, that has been discussed already in other threads.

Muchas gracias for your advice, I have other, more serious business to take care of now... like getting a new job, a new girlfriend and an actual social life in general...

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:11 pm

I think the overkill of methods for reaching your goals is deliberate. Whatever we may all say about some of the poor balancing or faulty AI, BG2 does provide a variety of ways to deal with combat, healing, resurrection, upgrading, etc.

Imperator · Post by **Imperator** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:27 pm

Originally posted by fable
I think the overkill of methods for reaching your goals is deliberate. Whatever we may all say about some of the poor balancing or faulty AI, BG2 does provide a variety of ways to deal with combat, healing, resurrection, upgrading, etc.

Totally true, that's exactly what will keep me coming back to this game for at least another year. It's just that I strongly feel that Black Isle got carried away a little with the spells and potions. If you ask me, many of them are useless. Take a look at http://www.dudleyville.com/oogi/index.htm, especially the parts about 'cheap beer' and 'horse dung', and you'll get my point. I think this kind of 'variety' is a disadvantage rather than an advantage, because it takes days (more likely, weeks) to understand the different effects of these spells and potions, let alone to learn how to use them effectively. You'll only use around 50 or so spells EVER (maybe 200 if you're really into magic, but that would still leave around 100+ spells unused), so what's the point of having 300+ spells? The same goes for the potions. I'd say it's a bit of an overkill, but that's just MY opinion, of course.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:27 pm

Originally posted by Imperator
Totally true, that's exactly what will keep me coming back to this game for at least another year. It's just that I strongly feel that Black Isle got carried away a little with the spells and potions. If you ask me, many of them are useless. Take a look at http://www.dudleyville.com/oogi/index.htm, especially the parts about 'cheap beer' and 'horse dung', and you'll get my point. I think this kind of 'variety' is a disadvantage rather than an advantage, because it takes days (more likely, weeks) to understand the different effects of these spells and potions, let alone to learn how to use them effectively. You'll only use around 50 or so spells EVER (maybe 200 if you're really into magic, but that would still leave around 100+ spells unused), so what's the point of having 300+ spells? The same goes for the potions. I'd say it's a bit of an overkill, but that's just MY opinion, of course.

i've seen that guide before, and i disagree with many of their assessments...

putting nrd in cheap beer instead of gold dust...

putting grease in bread and butter???!!! much less charm person...grrrrrrrrr... :mad:

actually, to understand spells look here...

http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm

read carefully...