Protagonist Class

shingo5d · Post by **shingo5d** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:31 pm

Anyone knows whats the main protagonist class best suited for the story? M starting the game and hoped to play it throught the whole saga and which class is best suited for him as in story and role-playing wise and the romances?

Or maybe he is a solo character?

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue May 25, 2004 7:08 am

Any class you wish. The Bhaalspawn is a matter of genetics, not profession. As for the romances, they have no basis in class, and are only a series of cliched dialog pieces strung together to provide another "game feature."

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:28 am

But dont forget some of the classes will favour your playing style, and a lot of cheese using is needed for harder levels...

Check UserUnfriendly's guide...

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:08 am

I'm not a FR boff, but ask yourself this:

Which Bhaalspawn powers does the player get?

What is Bhaal's portfolio?

Then choose the class most likely to gravitate towards part of the portfolio, and could use the ability the best. That is the class the protagonist probably would have been, if (s)he were an NPC.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:49 am

well, Every damn video in the game does show you with magical or divine powers. I think that the Bhaalspawn, for default, should be FM or FMC.

But thats just my opinion, you know.

I like to play bards cause they 'fit' in all the classes most.

shingo5d · Post by **shingo5d** » Wed May 26, 2004 7:57 am

Hmm so since Bhaal is the God of murder..maybe the protagonist should be an assassin? But considering that in the dreams sequences in BG2 Irenicus showed the potential that the protagonist has..and the child fires off an array of spells....hmmm....assassin mage? However he is brought up in CandleKeep by Gorion...thats' the hard one man

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed May 26, 2004 8:39 am

Originally posted by shingo5d
Hmm so since Bhaal is the God of murder..maybe the protagonist should be an assassin?

Why? You begin the game refusing to embrace your heritage, and depending on how you play it, you can be good or evil at the end. Bioware stacks the deck in favor of you being good, in any case, since most of the quests involve doing "nice" things. If you were an assassin, chances are you wouldn't be helping out everyone who has a problem.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:49 pm

Originally posted by fable
Why? You begin the game refusing to embrace your heritage, and depending on how you play it, you can be good or evil at the end. Bioware stacks the deck in favor of you being good, in any case, since most of the quests involve doing "nice" things. If you were an assassin, chances are you wouldn't be helping out everyone who has a problem.

Refusing? I dont think so. You start the game knowing nothing bout your heritage. You have Choice, but you need to kill your brother to reveal the path, and that is a must have.

Dueller · Post by **Dueller** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:56 pm

Originally posted by fable
Why? You begin the game refusing to embrace your heritage, and depending on how you play it, you can be good or evil at the end. Bioware stacks the deck in favor of you being good, in any case, since most of the quests involve doing "nice" things.

Yeah, and isn't it annoying? You're supposed to be the son of the freaking Lord of Murder - not a boy scout! Evil characters are severly biased against, especially when it comes to buying things. Although there are some cool things only they can use (human leather, Soul Reaver sword).

My favourite class is the fighter/thief, since at high levels they can bypass class and alignment restraints and use any item they want (unless it requires a certain stat, such as the Book of Golems that needs a minimum intelligence level). Of course regular thieves can do this to, only their THAC0s aren't as good as fighters.

And speaking of alignment (sort of) - at what point in ToB does the PC change alignment to become neutral evil? This has happened to two different characters of mine so far. I notice that if you convert the CHR file into a CRE, the original alignment is still there, only there is a 'special ability' that alters the alignment. What happens if you are a good character that changes to evil and you're favourite weapon can only be used by good characters? Do you have to find another weapon, or do weapons only recognise the base alignment rather than any additional modifiers? Would a cleric's spells change (holy smite to unholy smite, etc)? Is it possible to become an evil paladin?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:10 am

Some cleric spells do change (like Holy Blight becomes Unholy Blight).
You can no longer use items that can only be used by goodaligned char's.
If your rep drops enough you'll be a Fallen Paladin (or Ranger) who loses his Paladin abilities and becomes no more than a fighter who can put only two slots in weapon proficiencies.
If you change your alignment using a game editor nothing happens to your paladin. However, there are some mods that created new kits, among them evil-paladin-like kits.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 27, 2004 8:27 am

Originally posted by Dueller
Yeah, and isn't it annoying? You're supposed to be the son of the freaking Lord of Murder - not a boy scout!

But your heritage should have no effects on your actions up to that point (the discovery of your heritage), because your entire life has been lived in ignorance of that fact. Typically in myth, folklore and quality fantasy literature, a hero has to make an intelligent choice as an adult to embrace or reject their ancestry and calling. If their path was foreordained and their choice pre-made for them, the results would be predictable and dull. If anything, your character in BG2 displays an innate rejection of Bhaal's nature: 1) a desire to rescue your friend (sibling, though you don't know this), and a willingness to help others by solving their problems.

Besides, assassins aren't evil by nature, except in very bad fiction. You want evil? Look to the people that hire assassins.

A mage, a bard, hell, a merchant can be impressively evil. There's an evil clerical cult in Baldur's Gate, too. Evil is a matter of world view working itself out in action, and can apply to a person who follows any profession.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu May 27, 2004 8:49 am

Originally posted by fable
But your heritage should have no effects on your actions up to that point (the discovery of your heritage), because your entire life has been lived in ignorance of that fact. Typically in myth, folklore and quality fantasy literature, a hero has to make an intelligent choice as an adult to embrace or reject their ancestry and calling. If their path was foreordained and their choice pre-made for them, the results would be predictable and dull. If anything, your character in BG2 displays an innate rejection of Bhaal's nature: 1) a desire to rescue your friend (sibling, though you don't know this), and a willingness to help others by solving their problems.

Besides, assassins aren't evil by nature, except in very bad fiction. You want evil? Look to the people that hire assassins. A mage, a bard, hell, a merchant can be impressively evil. There's an evil clerical cult in Baldur's Gate, too. Evil is a matter of world view working itself out in action, and can apply to a person who follows any profession.

Very well said, fable.

It's ironic, though, that when the assassin kit was changed into the prestige class for 3rd and 3.5 edition, one of the requirements to add Assassin to character levels was that a character had to be of evil alignment.

Dueller · Post by **Dueller** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:28 pm

Originally posted by fable
But your heritage should have no effects on your actions up to that point (the discovery of your heritage), because your entire life has been lived in ignorance of that fact.

And what of nature v's nurture? Does it really matter how well brought up a person is, if they have the blood of a god of murder in their veins? And even if their intentions are good, does their tainted blood not still result in death and chaos?

Whether a Bhaalspawn professes to be good or evil, their very nature dooms them to a life surrounded by death and destruction. I'd say their heritage DOES have an effect on their actions, whether they like it or not.

Originally posted by fable

If anything, your character in BG2 displays an innate rejection of Bhaal's nature: 1) a desire to rescue your friend (sibling, though you don't know this), and a willingness to help others by solving their problems.

That only applies if you respond that way in the dialogue choices. If you want you can tell people you aren't interested in rescuing Imoen - just in finding out what Irenicus can do to make you more powerful. Once you meet up with Imoen, you can tell her to find her own way out of the maze, and track down Irenicus purely for revenge purposes. And in ToB, you can constantly tell people that you are only killing Bhaalspawn and stopping Melissan in order to get the power you deserve, and become the new Lord of Murder.

Originally posted by fable

Besides, assassins aren't evil by nature

Oh come on! Does anyone really take up a profession where they kill unsuspecting people for money if they are good?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:51 am

i think perhaps that, given how the protagonist is brought up there are a few classes that are more unlikely.

the cleric - for gorion's ward?
the druid - ditto, there was no grove at candlekeep
the barbarian - brought up around civilised people
the ranger - as above

i think the FM or the FMT is one of the most viable, but so is the paladin (gorion pushes you to do good). the sorceror also (demonic/divine blood)

a dual classed character is different; i would say a fighter spending time with auntie jaheira in bg1 may have changed the world outlook leading to a fighter->druid in bg2.

but tbh, you can take any class and with a small backstory, make it a viable character for the protagonist as we know nothing about his/her mother and her nature.

shingo5d · Post by **shingo5d** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:59 am

Hmm..maybe Thrain is right...as Gorion's ward, he can be a mage and considering that the watchers might have teach him some combat, so the protagonist may be a fighter mage...as for race it is most likely be a human eh?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:06 pm

perhaps......

personally, i think the elf, half-elf an human races are more..........................viable. but any race is arguable.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:17 pm

Originally posted by Dueller
Whether a Bhaalspawn professes to be good or evil, their very nature dooms them to a life surrounded by death and destruction. I'd say their heritage DOES have an effect on their actions, whether they like it or not.

You're welcome to completely reject two of Bioware's endings where your PC chooses to be good and rejects his heritage, but that doesn't mean the endings cease to exist. Bioware evidently felt the choice was the player's, and not determined by nature.

Oh come on! Does anyone really take up a profession where they kill unsuspecting people for money if they are good?

Whoever said that they did? I wrote, "Besides, assassins aren't evil by nature, except in very bad fiction," and that's true. You can choose to be good, neutral or evil, and because it's a choice, it's not a matter of nature. Let's take one assassin I've known in reallife, for example, who took assignments on the cheap approximately 50 years ago from Jewish families after WWII to find and "remove" low level Gestapo and especially SS types that were in charge of the camps and showed unusual (even for them) cruelty. Was he evil? I don't think so. He did a lot of good work over the years, removing people who had escaped justice because one or another Allied government thought their information might be useful against the other Allies after the war.

I've known several others who simply regarded it as a job, and did their work in the name of various third world nations where they were paid well and injured no one else. Were these people "evil?" Okay: define evil, then. Were the politicians who ordered the hits as evil, or more so? Were these assassins evil *by nature,* or simply engaging in acts that society regards as evil--unless a war's on, in which case these people are automatically heroes, at least, if there side is the winning side? True assassins are ambiguous figures--mercs one day, hit men the next, heroes of wars on a third, heading divisions in "think tanks" on a fourth. Which is my point: assassins can fit whatever mold you wish, and for a mixture of motives that make for far more interesting characters (to my mind) than white cardboard paladins and cackling black sorcs.

You're certainly entitled to play an assassin as evil if you'd like, Dueller. But that doesn't mean that your definition is the only right or possible one.

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:20 am

Just to further your point, Fable, the examination of rhetorics of decisions and speeches and (auto)biographies of every historical figure will portray them as Lawful Good in their own eyes, while their enmies look at them as vilanious tyrants.

in D&D terms, the Lawful Good Paladin and the Lawful Evil Assassin may be not that far apart, morally...

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:38 am

Really boys, I dont know why such a discussion about that. Candlekeep is a place of knowledge and studies, and among theyr monks should be lots of monks, priests, mages, sorcerors, fighters... every of them atempting to store as many knowledge as possible inside the walls. If I'm not mistaken, one of the old monks there used a 'invincible' call lightning on me - and that only tells me he is a druid. Btw, Gorion is your stepfather, your menthor, not your ruler.

Sir Redweed · Post by **Sir Redweed** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:39 pm

Originally posted by Mirk

in D&D terms, the Lawful Good Paladin and the Lawful Evil Assassin may be not that far apart, morally... [/b]

Normally this is where i would go off the deep end and give a lecture on the great moral difference between good and evil.

Instead I'll ask what kingdom has legalized assassinations? It is impossible under D&D rules for the thief class/assassin subclass to be lawful.

Still cannot believe I'm being compared to an assassin morally.

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.