No deaths, no reloads

[Tom]

Two

Thanks for your interesting thread.

You have slagged of TOB liberaly and i was starting to doubt whether i would bother to get TOB.

Your claim that you play TOB as a wargame makes no sense to me but it does cheer me up - a little.

Whatever TOB is i am sure that it is not a wargame - im not sure if its a role-playing game either - so it is not surprising that you are a bit dissapointed.

my advise is that you find a tactical game and play against human opponents that should provide a challenge as a wargame.

I havnt tried TOB but i am sure the plot stinks. I thought BG1 has an ok plot, BG2 down hill and i can only see the trend continuing in TOB with the focus so much on power items-monsters etc.

Ahh well this seems to be going nowhere fast still i felt like saying something.

keep up your thread i like it

And to everyone else lets not argue whether two is playing the way we prefer that would be too boring to read. Dooh...

[Lews Therin]

Originally posted by Tom:
<STRONG>Two

Thanks for your interesting thread.

You have slagged of TOB liberaly and i was starting to doubt whether i would bother to get TOB.

Your claim that you play TOB as a wargame makes no sense to me but it does cheer me up - a little.

Whatever TOB is i am sure that it is not a wargame - im not sure if its a role-playing game either - so it is not surprising that you are a bit dissapointed.

my advise is that you find a tactical game and play against human opponents that should provide a challenge as a wargame.

I havnt tried TOB but i am sure the plot stinks. I thought BG1 has an ok plot, BG2 down hill and i can only see the trend continuing in TOB with the focus so much on power items-monsters etc.

Ahh well this seems to be going nowhere fast still i felt like saying something.

keep up your thread i like it

And to everyone else lets not argue whether two is playing the way we prefer that would be too boring to read. Dooh...


</STRONG>

Yeah, his writing is interesting, and you can learn a lot from his strategies; but he whines too much about the game being boring after using cheese tactics and equipping his munchkin character to the hilt. I'm not near as good (I'll admit it) but I managed to beat Sendai without the use of Pocket Plane between statues, and I didn't find any of the main boss fights boring or easy.

The continual, "yawn, boring" interspersed in the dialogue is a bit grating, other than that it's been a good read.

[two]

Originally posted by Lews Therin:
<STRONG>Yeah, his writing is interesting, and you can learn a lot from his strategies; but he whines too much about the game being boring after using cheese tactics and equipping his munchkin character to the hilt. I'm not near as good (I'll admit it) but I managed to beat Sendai without the use of Pocket Plane between statues, and I didn't find any of the main boss fights boring or easy.

The continual, "yawn, boring" interspersed in the dialogue is a bit grating, other than that it's been a good read.</STRONG>

Shoot I'm losing a supporter here! Sorry about all the yawn yawn, I'm just writin' it as I'm feelin' it. I'll try to keep it to myself in the future.

It's easy for me to clear a few things up, so I'll do it:

I don't play computer games for role-playing. I personally think that's silly, you need other humans for role-playing that is not totally simplistic. Even an inexperienced 14 year old DM/GM will run a better "roleplaying" adventure then any computer anywhere. Because, like, you can TALK with him you know? Not to mention other players! And with a human if you don't like where something is going you can change course...no such luck with computers.
And an experienced GM is fabulous, makes the whole BG series look like a cartoon -- which it is, in some ways. Which is ok, it's just a computer game.

Is my Bard cheesy? Does he use cheesy tactics? I would say NO.

All my equipment is standard-issue. You would be hard pressed to AVOID picking it up. I think it's absurd for somebody to argue that I should not use an item that is given to me (or I battled for) simply because it's a good or great item. It's not like I've got 2 rings of gaax! Everybody and his mom has CromF, ONE ring of Gaax, etc. etc. So do I. It's all on one character, sure, so what? If you have a party you can still duplicate this effect -- just pick a lucky sucker and load him up. I'm still not using lots of good stuff like, oh, a holy avenger, white dragon armor, etc. etc.

Is it cheesy to port away to rest? Nope, that's partly what the ability is FOR. Either that or to drive the insanely linear plot. I would say both I guess, on reflection. In any case, porting away to rest is infinitely less cheesy than, say, reloading. Right? In fact anything you can do legally WITHIN the game is less cheesy than reloadnig... although there is still room for cheese for sure.

My tactics -- well, you HAVE to do stuff like that if you don't reload. You just have to. I don't know in advance what is coming up, if I can rest in the future, what monsters are there, if my spell shields can hold that long, if blur will be useless, etc. If I wasn't defensive-minded, I would have died many times over. I don't do absolute (but legal) cheese like pop off a simulacrum before every fight, and have him battle it out (he'd win most). Nor did I take 15 time traps, and scatter them around everywhere before every battle. But this I will do and defend:
1) Sleep as much as I want, whenever I want.
2) Enter battle spelled up to my best abilities.
3) Scout using inviso/wizard eye/or whatever else I can think of.

If anyone wants to run a solo character, without dying or reloads, without knowing in advance what TOB offers, and still sleep as little as possible like once a dungeon (for a spell-caster) -- more power to you! You are slicker than I for sure.

I can see how this MIGHT be done with a Paladin/fighter type, but I ain't running one of them beasts.

later.

[koz-ivan]

two - keep up the good work. don't ever change just to please the masses.

good luck w/ the rest of tob.

[Xyx]

Poor little me doesn't have ToB yet so I may be totally out of line here. If so, please correct me.

From all I've read on this forum, ToB practically is Diablo II. The high level abilities are suspiciously familiar (Whirlwind Attack, anyone?), and the monty haul aspect seems in every way Diablo's equal. The storyline may have a bit more to it, but is still every bit as linear as Diablo. The biggest difference seems to be that you have party members that occasionally say something.

As for solo games being easier than party games, that's just silly. The worst that could happen is that all your party members die, in which case you're back to a solo game, with the option of resurrecting your friends whenever you need them.

[Lews Therin]

Originally posted by two:
<STRONG>
My tactics -- well, you HAVE to do stuff like that if you don't reload. You just have to. I don't know in advance what is coming up, if I can rest in the future, what monsters are there, if my spell shields can hold that long, if blur will be useless, etc. If I wasn't defensive-minded, I would have died many times over. I don't do absolute (but legal) cheese like pop off a simulacrum before every fight, and have him battle it out (he'd win most). Nor did I take 15 time traps, and scatter them around everywhere before every battle. But this I will do and defend:
1) Sleep as much as I want, whenever I want.
2) Enter battle spelled up to my best abilities.
3) Scout using inviso/wizard eye/or whatever else I can think of.

If anyone wants to run a solo character, without dying or reloads, without knowing in advance what TOB offers, and still sleep as little as possible like once a dungeon (for a spell-caster) -- more power to you! You are slicker than I for sure.

I can see how this MIGHT be done with a Paladin/fighter type, but I ain't running one of them beasts.

later.</STRONG>

I'm probably just jealous because I didn't know you could Pocket Plane between statues.

[Tharan]

Hey two, this thread is awesome just like everyone elese said, and as for cheesy tactics,na i would not say it is. I thought about it doing that myself I was like.... so if before i die I can pocket plane? But never got the chance cause I never died! or did by a death spell or some such insta kill thingie.
But anyways I agree with you on the whole you cannot avoid the powerfull items in the game. The game just chucks them at you. hehe plus I am not sure if we should call ToB items magical I say let us call them Artifacts because with powers like that, that is all they are ehehehehehe.
But anyways everyone in this topic is cool, have a lot of opinions and such.
Though I do think that designers got tired of BG games and just wanted to end it. Do you not think so I mean sorry but ToB looks like it has been just put together in a couple of days.
I still play it.... god I am such a hypocrat.

[Louis]

I find this thread to be one of the more interesting ones i have read. This is just a game, and its cheating or chessy if you feel it so. If Bioware wanted you to do things just one way they would have made the game that way. two if soloing is your thing, more power to you. Personally I like playing with NPCs, their dialouge breaks the the tedium sometimes.

[two]

Well after such nice positive messages I just HAD to keep going! Thanks everyone.

I put in another hour and 1/2.

Since I had killed this dragon thing, I was able to go back to the desert village and get into the Monk's big bad monestary. Imagine my surprise when I got inside and it consisted of just a few room. And then imagine my even greater surprise when I had to face the big bad B himself -- and this poor monk was dead in 4 rounds. I honestly think this is a sign that bioware had NO CLUE what they were doing. How is this Monk even in the same league as a Dragon or the Simian-girl? He knocked me back once with some spell or ability, tried to run away a few times with some other ability, but I just got up and sped back to him. CromF, Improved Haste, Blur. Over. Nowhere near to taking damage, even if they hit eventually there was stoneskin, and 4 more if I needed them in spells.

Huh? I'm not bragging, this battle could NOT have been difficult for anyone. After all our saves vs. death/quivering palm are well negative at this point, especially for the tanks. Depressing.

Anyway I went back to the pocket plane and had to do 3 of those portal battles in a row, I had been slow in doing them. The first two were trivially easy, same old thing blur, improved haste, cromF, spell trap. I think I used true sight as well from the BofISpells.

The third was very odd. This dude appeared said some rubbish which I clicked through, then gave me a few rounds to get "prepared." I was already prepared so I laid down a few spike traps and a time trap. Then these 3 assasin types appeared at super speed. I true sighted again, taking care of inviso. They set off some spike traps and a time trap, I started hitting them. They were hitting me, but got nowhere near the end of my stoneskins. They soon died.

I could see how these guys MIGHT have killed somebody without stonskin via backstab, but there are a lot of anti-backstab items at this point. Pretty easy.

All this took about 10 minutes. Then I was at the last portal and took special care to spell up. I mean, I never use contingencies, but I did in this case. I read a greater contigency from a scroll and picked tensor's, stonskin, mislead for 25% of hps. Then I spelled up, shot out a simulacrum, spell trapped, etc. Went in nervous.

El Ravager. I had simmy run in immediatly and smack him. He took about 7-8 damage from CromF, excellent result. Looks like Scarlet Ninja-to is useless except for the extra crom attack. The ravager hit about 50% of the time at my AC level...not good. And these stupid bone blades were a pain, if you kill one another appears. I ran in beside simmy and we smacked ElR down to injured then simmy died, I was hurt, and it was obvious I couldn't do it myself. I pulled out before I was down to 25%, and ran in circles. I noticed everybody was slow -- this is good. ElR would NOT chase me for some reason, he just stook there throwing a dagger looking thing that occasionally did 5-6 damage to me, and made me save vs. death or somethnig which is harmless. I was much faster than the bone blades so just kept running in a circle drinknig a few healing potions. So far a draw.

However, one huge advantage I had: magic. I tried abuot 5 strikes from a wand of peirce magic, then threw some magic missles at him. One finally got thruogh I think, then said "spell useless". His magic resistance was absurd or he's just immune to magic I think, like Kangaax. So i keep running and thinking. He is thrownig some spells my way, maybe that dagger thing, my spell trap is renewing some blur's...good. Then it hit me: he was not dispelling magic. I had all my protections except a stoneskin which he hit through. So I did the obvious thing: I went through my backpack and got a scroll of Mordekainen's Sword. Ran in a circle, got a little room, then cast it. Sent it against ElR and the bone swords. presto! They can't damage it, it can't really damage ElR, but I have some free time.

This was the key to the whole fight, summoned monsters. I went into a corner, the steps where I had entered, and busted out a few precious scrolls. We are talking simulacrum, MKSword, Gate. I never used these before in battle but I had to this time. I had about 3-4 of each. I equipped MKsword, gate, simulacrum scrolls. I shot off a simmy. Simmy read MKSword, Gate. All hell broke lose. Everything attacked the MKSword and the demon. I ran away from the demon until it decided to attack a bone sword or MKsword. ElR was ignoring me, focusing on a demon or a MKsword. Me and simmy stepped up to the plate and started Cromming. Sadly I was havnig some trouble hitting, but wanted to keep my spells opon so didn't tensor's yet.

This was the key to the whole battle. After my simmy went away after like 20 rounds, I threw off another simmy from the scroll. This simmy read another MKsword to keep everybody busy, and also another gate. ElR was once again distracted and that demon lasted FOREVER. And ever. I had to avoid the bone blades, run around the demons, then swoop into ElR to hit a few time, then circle aruond. At one point simmy cast MMeteors and pelted ElR from long range. Only 2 per hit, 10 per round -- Crom is better.

It took THREE simulacrum's....about 4 GATE's, maybe 6 MKswords, and a lot of Crom before elR bit the dust. AFter he was badly injured I took a deep breath and used Tensor's. I was hitting every blow now...this was good. Finally he crumpled. WHEW. And after he died I had to kill an extra demon before the script ran and let me out...whew!

Good battle, took some seriuos strategic thinking to win it.

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: two ]

[KaaZe]

Yeah, I remember this guy, he was a nasty as they come... I died about 2-3 times against him. I the final battle only me a Sarevok was left standing. But you pulled it off very nicely!!! great read by the way.

[Lews Therin]

Originally posted by two:
<STRONG>
Good battle, took some seriuos strategic thinking to win it.

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: two ]</STRONG>

Great description of the battle. It's a lot easier with a full party. I had Korgan and Sarevok Greater Whirlwind him while Jan and my PC caste our spell triggers, and he went down in a few rounds. I wouldn't have wanted to try him solo though.

I'm looking forward to reading about the finale. Keep up the good work.

[tlibro]

Two,
I must admit that I am VERY impressed with your playing. That was a tough battle. I'm sure I could not have done it solo. As the others have said, I'm really looking forward to hearing about the final battle. Good luck.

[Tharan]

Two, exellent strategy. I would think all hell did break loose when you had so many summoned creatures. I am looking forward as everyone else to listen to your final battle.

Ravager was pretty tuff, I Had myself and Sarevok G.Whirlwind him a couple of times, but he went down none the less.

I say guys shoul we all solo with a Wizard Slayer and see how that turns out or even better how about a beastmaster solo.....hmmm

[Xyx]

That and ShadowKeeper all your stats down to 3

But, seriously, shooting yourself in the foot like that only means you will use more and more cheese...

If there are any requests, I could whip up some improved enemy scripts (say, Beholders that do not target characters that bounce spells). That might give you more of a run for your money.

[Lews Therin]

Originally posted by Tharan:
<STRONG>Two, exellent strategy. I would think all hell did break loose when you had so many summoned creatures. I am looking forward as everyone else to listen to your final battle.

Ravager was pretty tuff, I Had myself and Sarevok G.Whirlwind him a couple of times, but he went down none the less.
</STRONG>

I think that's the key with Ravager -- two strong fighters with Greater Whirlwind while your mages cast lower resistance, breach, greater malison, and the like (loaded into triggers helps a lot). I actually did him twice, because when I wanted to start the last fight over from the beginning my last auto-save was before Balthazar, and he went down pretty quick both times.

[Kyle Marksteiner]

what's the point of casting lower resistance if your primary damage dealer is whirlwind?

[Lews Therin]

Originally posted by Sloanzilla:
<STRONG>what's the point of casting lower resistance if your primary damage dealer is whirlwind?</STRONG>

I had Vic cast Bolt of Glory, Cernd throwing those blades, and my spell casters firing their sequencers with Melf's arrows after the spell triggers fired (loaded with the above mentioned lower resistance, greater malison, and pierce). But the main damage was from the fighter's. I'm not as good at detailing my fights as Two.

[Blobbas]

never mind, I just whacked his ass!! 8)

[Bodhidharma]

Two
I have a question for you:
Did you play the game from start to finish, without importing in any equipment to your skald from other games? Meaning, did you play a pure game starting from scratch, or did you start your skald out with a full set of equipment, including equipment that you normally wouldn't aquire till late in the game, i.e. chapter 5,6 etc. ?

I find it hard to imagine soloing a skald with only the equipment that is available to you as a completely new player with no stuff stored on exported characters.

I find the idea of soloing a skald interesting and may try it myself. I especially like the idea of the 'use any item' skill later on, and those time traps and spike traps sound very powerful. I already know from experience how powerful animate dead spell is. I finished the entire asylum and underdark levels mainly using only my cleric's summoned creatures, and i left the rest of my party at the entrance to each dungeon while my skeleton warriors cleaned out all the dungeons. It was kinda cheesy, but it was the only way I could do certain dungeons without my entire party dying, or getting petrified or something. So i can imagine how even more powerful a pack of skeleton warriors would be with the bard song, and haste. An oversight on my part, i even forgot to use haste on my skeleton warriors for the most part, yet they still cleaned house. Though i often had to summon large amounts of them

Also you mention the 'cloak of reflections' and 'crom faer' or whatever, as being all anyone needs to solo the game. And yet, both these items, you don't get till much much later in the game right? I'm in chapter 6 and I don't have either of these items. Though last night i just killed the shadow dragon, though i realize I coulda killed him a couple chapters ago, and finally found the crom faer scroll. So I'm wondering, did you start out with a clean slate? or did you import a crom faer and cloak of reflection, and all the other good equipment to your guy when you started out?

I created a skald last night, and told imoen, minsc and jaheira to piss off Saved and quit before i went to bed. But i'm seriously wondering how I am going to get through irenicus prison with a weak ass skald with crappy equipment. I remember my first time through irenicus dungeon , in single player mode, there were several times when my group of my main character, minsc, jahiera, imoen, and yoshimo got the crap kicked out of them, and I had to reload several times. I can't imagine doing some of those battles with a solo skald with crappy equipment on. And he's not high level enough to cast animate dead spell either. I can remember several fights in irenicus dungeon that had like 6-10 enemies vs your party. Some of them even tough.

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Bodhidharma ]

[Xyx]

If you can't beat them... cast Invisibility and run!

Can your Skald cast Minor Spell Deflection? That can protect you from some nasty traps.