Hardest Enemy

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:49 am

Well, when soloing a fighter, that mage that you gotta kill on the docks for Maevar guild is just a hell.

Not only him, most of the magic protected folk are that way. The only thing I found odd about that is that Jon Irenicus and Firkraag where not as tough as the rest of the enemies. The drow city after you mess up with the ritual, the planar sphere, the guarded compound are very hard to beat with them.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:52 am

@nephtu: I don't say you can't call them hobbits. It's just that when you are talking about D&D, the term hobbits just doesn't exist. Nothing to do about that. It's never mentioned in one of the books that a nickname for halflings is hobbits.

But if you like to stick to hobbit...go ahead. I won't demand for your head or something

infamousjansen · Post by **infamousjansen** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:00 am

yeah indeed he was tough that mage with my last run through solo barbarian (i know i play the game in such a way that most beauty of it is lost since im not too fond of spellcasting) i killed him in the first go tho but i had to use the cheap and cheesy method of running up and down the stairs when he was casting a spell... it did the trick and i didnt feel like having to rerun that fight over and over again.... and this way he was left battered in a short time

(well short still took ages to wear his spells of

)

infamousjansen · Post by **infamousjansen** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:05 am

spoilerish

Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
Huh? Sewer party? I have never had any problems with them...ever.

you should try to walk into them unprepaired when you're low level and you dont have a single clue that it isnt very wise to do the temple quest at a low level of experience... i had to reload it about 2 - 3 times cus just about my whole party ended up getting slaughtered (but then i discoverd the most useful spell of insect plague that jaheira owned)... well this is a game where you learn from your mistakes

at least thats what i think

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:01 pm

Bring back the word "Hobbit"!

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
...when you are talking about D&D, the term hobbits just doesn't exist... It's never mentioned in one of the books that a nickname for halflings is hobbits....

In the original 3-book Dungeons & Dragons by Gary Gygax & Dave Arneson the word "Hobbit" (*not* a nickname, but their own term for themselves) is exclusively used, with the Westron/Middle English "Halfling" nowhere to be seen. Same goes for "Ent", if memory serves. The new-fangled expressions were only adopted for AD&D because of a stupid legal argument.

I suppose that's the younger generations for ye... No doubt there's a whole crop growing that know the movies intimately but have never read The Book...

Now, where are my pipe & slippers...?

B.

P.S. Here's a question to separate the kids from the codgers - in what wargames rulebook did the D&D concept first appear?
And does anybody have a copy they could scan & send me?

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:54 pm

Re: Bring back the word "Hobbit"!

Originally posted by Boris
In the original 3-book Dungeons & Dragons by Gary Gygax & Dave Arneson the word "Hobbit" (*not* a nickname, but their own term for themselves) is exclusively used, with the Westron/Middle English "Halfling" nowhere to be seen. Same goes for "Ent", if memory serves. The new-fangled expressions were only adopted for AD&D because of a stupid legal argument.

I suppose that's the younger generations for ye... No doubt there's a whole crop growing that know the movies intimately but have never read The Book...

Now, where are my pipe & slippers...?

B.

P.S. Here's a question to separate the kids from the codgers - in what wargames rulebook did the D&D concept first appear?
And does anybody have a copy they could scan & send me?

D&D derives of course from Chainmail, Fantasy Supplement (God help me, I played that and I know why a fourth level fighter was a Hero, and an eight level fighter a Superhero) - the term Hobbit (Like Ents) got dropped when the Tolkien estate started waxing litigious once TSR was large enough to be lawsuit-worthy.

And anyone who doesn't remember when Eldritch Wizardy came out is a punk

- yes, by God, we did walk 50 miles to school each day uphill both ways in a blizzard every day, and we liked it, too...

Proudly a codger...

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:31 am

Re: Bring back the word "Hobbit"!

EDIT - Deleted first part of post. Didn't want to argue about it anymore.

EDIT - Deleted second part of the post. Thought the one asking questions like that to 'seperate kids from codgers' was, well... let's say: no codger

EDIT - Stopped viewing this thread

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:54 pm

I'd have to say the Lich that asks for his arms, legs and torso. The... Kangaxx guy. Killer with his enprisonment spell.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:50 pm

Re: Bring back the word "Hobbit"!

Originally posted by Boris
In the original 3-book Dungeons & Dragons by Gary Gygax & Dave Arneson the word "Hobbit" (*not* a nickname, but their own term for themselves) is exclusively used, with the Westron/Middle English "Halfling" nowhere to be seen. Same goes for "Ent", if memory serves. The new-fangled expressions were only adopted for AD&D because of a stupid legal argument.

Tolkien's eldest son had no ability to sue for the use of the halfling race in modern D&D, despite the fact that a good case could be made for its familiarity among modern readers/gamers solely on the basis of LotR and The Hobbit. On the other hand, "hobbit" was a term coined by Tolkien, so the family had a strong legal position in defending its exclusive rights to its use without reimbursement. Hell, it was JRR's intellectual property. Makes sense that he and his should be able to control the results.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:29 pm

I'm just now getting into some of the improved areas and I'm getting slaughtered. I'm talking about Pontifex, the Poison mod enemies, and the Small Teeth Path Dragons. My chars are nice level, 20-25 with lots of resistances and I still get decimated in just a few rounds. These mods seem like they are designed for specific tactics and characters who use chain contingency combos and whatnot. I'm not really into all that so the monsters are killing me. I have a feeling I'm dead when I reach Ascension and improved Irenicus.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:35 pm

Originally posted by Luther
I'm just now getting into some of the improved areas and I'm getting slaughtered. I'm talking about Pontifex, the Poison mod enemies, and the Small Teeth Path Dragons. My chars are nice level, 20-25 with lots of resistances and I still get decimated in just a few rounds. These mods seem like they are designed for specific tactics and characters who use chain contingency combos and whatnot. I'm not really into all that so the monsters are killing me. I have a feeling I'm dead when I reach Ascension and improved Irenicus.

Nah, they are tough and designed to cheese use, and you'll get lots of trouble trying to defeat them, thats for sure. Try reading uu's guide... or try cheating a bit. Might be useful.

Iyke · Post by **Iyke** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:57 pm

Better part of valor!! better part of valor!!

Those dragons you bump into as soon as you zone beat me. I dont like to cheat, and could only run from that encounter. The 8 hours journey meant preps were not possible, and i couldnt even see/ dispell invis one of those dragons. very tough. They remain alive to this day.

Pontifex on the other hand, was beaten after an epic battle. Plenty of time for preps on this one, and plenty of time was taken. Even the Nalia and Jan simuls were fully buffed! Great fight dont give up ... make sure you resist poison or acid a bit. I forget which. After a lot of chasing around, wing buffets and dragon pyrotecnics, Project Nalia basically just gave ponti the Vecna treatment. Casomyr probably came into it somewhere too. Cant complain about loots after the boots we got earlier.

One thing that bugs me about that whole quest ... i felt like i never really solved it. I wasnt able to 'save' the lady in the forest ( I since learned you can imprison her? too late for my game though ). Im sad that i think i missed out on some dialogue in the woods - as I had the habit of taking out the skull camps with vicious magics that didnt give them much chance to speak. One monk did manage to get close enough to open dialogue ... and wow. Way to make us all feel guilty! I felt terrible but it was already too late. More blood was spilled.

Fantastic quest. everything about it ... i just wish i understood more =/

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:14 pm

Yeah, Weimer's mods are awesome...

Ily... I can remember the first time I beat him...

Not to mention firkraag, nimazdrawhatever and bodhi...

Very nice work indeed, cause it balances low level characters with cheese and good spell timing.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:09 pm

Originally posted by Iyke
One thing that bugs me about that whole quest ... i felt like i never really solved it. I wasnt able to 'save' the lady in the forest ( I since learned you can imprison her? too late for my game though ). Im sad that i think i missed out on some dialogue in the woods - as I had the habit of taking out the skull camps with vicious magics that didnt give them much chance to speak. One monk did manage to get close enough to open dialogue ... and wow. Way to make us all feel guilty! I felt terrible but it was already too late. More blood was spilled.

Fantastic quest. everything about it ... i just wish i understood more =/ [/b]

Yeah, there's definitley more to that then most of us know. The author said he wanted to put more dialogue in at some point. I nerfed the quest too and let the priestess die. At the time I thought that she was supposed to die. It basically left saving her up to your imagination (and some cheese.) Normal game quests make achieving these types of goals very obvious so in a mod where anything goes you just try anything.

araknid70 · Post by **araknid70** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:54 pm

Hmm. I replayed ToB with BP installed, and gave myself equipment I would have at the end of SoA+BP. So my party went without the Hell trial bonuses. Can't really say much about the improved enemies in SoA, because I didn't meet most of them, but I've fought Pontifex and Demogorgon. Unfortunately it seems the pile of equipment available in BP allowed my main character to run around with an AC of -20 plus a couple of resistances, including 100 MDamage resistance. The demogorgon battle itself took a little while, because the demons kept throwing my party to the ends of the map, but they weren't a problem; and demogorgon went down after a single spellstrike and a round of whirlwind from my main character. Nerfed, I would say, or perhaps I was just lucky.

I did beat Demogorgon first time unmodded before, once, but got pasted for the next seven tries (haha). Would the BP demogorgon be the improved version? I don't think I've tried that one.

Pontifex was just frustrating for me. Nothing seemed to hit him, spells nor weapons. After tussling with him (without dying) for an hour, wasting every single high-level spell his spell protections suddenly just wore off, I think, and I magic missiled him with my sorceror and mage... Finally managed to settle him. Again, my super low AC main character distracted him while the rest went invisible and ran away to heal...

And there's this bunch of red coloured creatures that attack you after you exit from Watcher's Keep (at least, I think it was Watcher's Keep. The party is teleported to a small clearing, surrounded by a party of red lizardlike creatures that speak to you for a moment then attack.) Anyway my party was reduced to one person, my main character, with levels drained to 2, and running around like a fool. Thankfully the enemy only had one member left (the level drainer), some bloodwraith or something, and stupidly chased after my character while I raised my party and reequipped. I can't remember how I killed it, but I suppose it was a mix of some magic, melee and arrows, while it STILL foolishly chased after my main character. My Boots of Haste saved my life.

I haven't met any of the other improved characters because of a silly bug in my game, where the game crashes in the second challenge (in the Abyssal Portal). Pissed me off so much that I stopped playing and started on my exam revision.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:21 pm

I always forget about the easiest way to win tough battles. Just lower the difficulty! I had to do it to beat Pontifex, the poison dudes and the 3 small teeth dragons. I hate it when I can't even get past one round. Lowering to novice seemed wimpy at first but actually gave me some great battles. Pontifex was a sweet fight. He threw out a ton of cool spells and I was able to use a lot of my cool spells/abilities/items. I like the battles where you last a long time just pounding on each other each side healing and trying new things.

Pontifex stayed semi-invisible for a long time and I couldn't dispel it. I'm not sure how he did that since I didn't see an immunity to divination thrown out there. I finally had to wait for it to wear off before I could throw my breaches, etc. at him.

estaze · Post by **estaze** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:52 pm

Kangaxx is definately a tough opponent, but i don't consider him as the main difficulty. The reason for this, is because you can go buy a couple of "Protection from Magic" scrolls by the adventurers mart, and put them on your main tank. The battle will be far from a challenge in comparisation to irenicus or bodhi etc.

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:27 pm

kangaxx is actually pretty easy IMO

i had aerie cast holy power and rightous magic on her after casting spell immunity and then killed him with the staff of magi cuz i didnt have any other +5 weapons in my inventory that cud be used.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:51 am

[QUOTE=Iyke]Better part of valor!! better part of valor!!

Those dragons you bump into as soon as you zone beat me. I dont like to cheat, and could only run from that encounter. The 8 hours journey meant preps were not possible, and i couldnt even see/ dispell invis one of those dragons. very tough. They remain alive to this day.[/QUOTE]
The red dragon is the main threat when you arrive as his breath weapon has a huge range but you can prepare before hand...green protection from fire scrolls last 12 hours.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:01 am

[QUOTE=Luther]Yeah, there's definitley more to that then most of us know. The author said he wanted to put more dialogue in at some point. I nerfed the quest too and let the priestess die. At the time I thought that she was supposed to die. It basically left saving her up to your imagination (and some cheese.) Normal game quests make achieving these types of goals very obvious so in a mod where anything goes you just try anything.[/QUOTE]
Wes has described the lack of explantion in this quest as 'intentional'...not sure if there'll be more to follow or it will be just left as one of those unexplained things.

I've achieved all three outcomes and the results seem to suggest that, assuming you're 'good', the ritual needs to completed. Ponty gets angry if you let this happen and he is the bad guy in all of this. Not really sure why he gets so miffed if you kill the priestess though...saving her while stopping the ritual (think I used Melf's acid arrow) leaves a happy Ponty and that can't be a good thing.