Poll:Kensai/Mage or Fighter/Illusionist?

mbz · Post by **mbz** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:33 am

A dual classed Kensai/Mage has been one of the most popular and frequently mentioned classes in the entire forum. But seldom has anyone mentioned a multiclassed Fighter/mage or Fighter/Illusionist.

In my opinoin, Fighter/Illusionists deserve a higher status than Kensai/Mages:
1. A Fighter/Illusionist gains access to the warrior pool of special ability. (the K/M only the mage pool) Most of the high level mage ability points are wasted if you are a pure mage, since people usually don't use 10th level spells beyond Improved Alarcrity, Summon Planar, Dragon Breath..etc. As a Fighter/Illusionist, one could switch mage special ability points for warrior ability points.
2. Improved Alarcrity(and or energy blades) and warrior special abilities combined will turn the Fighter/Illusionist into a Über Juggernaut(although just for 1 turn)
3. A Fighter/Illusionist has just about as many spell slots as a Kensai Mage does (more spell slots at lower levels). Too bad no more skull traps and Abis, due to the loss of Necromancy.
4. A Fighter/Illusionist gains 2 hps per round, after the initial two rounds. His hp will break even(or not fall too much in behind) with a Kensai/Mage at higher levels.
5. A Fighter/Illusionist can wear gloves and gauntlets, which a K/M can't.
6. A Fighter/Illusionist will probably end up with a higher THACO than a K/M, though not necessarily as much damage and speed.
7. Does not have to endure the painful process of dual class transformation
8. As a Gnome(yay, the Janseen class!), a Fighter/Illusionist could have 19 intelligence, and memorize all spells without having to rely on purple potions.

Your opinions are WELCOMED!

Pepsimax_x5 · Post by **Pepsimax_x5** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:58 am

I never liked the Kensai/mage. Bracers r the only source of AC a mage can get. Wouldn't a F/I get more spells than the normal K/M cuz hes a specialist? IMO Fighter/Beserkers/Wizard Slayers r better than Kensai cuz they use Bows & Crossbows and when multi-classed with mages have less restrictions. I agree with you that multi-classed F/I r beta than dual
K/M. By the way, what's the max mage level for F/I?

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:10 am

Well - try this...

Be a multiclassed Kensai/Mage (or Kensai/Thief, a combo I'd argue is even better). It's easy with a little SK help.

Generally, ToB really helps out multiclassed characters vs. dual classed because of the dual ability pool, and some of those effects are conflated with the class choices.

But to address your specific claims:
1) Yes, mage HLAs are limited. A plus for multiclassing, downer for single clas mages & sorcerors (Oh boy, more potions & scrolls!)
2) Alacrity is spellcasting only - you wouldn't use it with fighter abilities, you'd be burning out your spellbook instead. Energy blades would work well for either.
3) Trading off lower level spellslots for higher - could be worthwhile, could be a problem. In any case, it's mostly a dual vs. multi issue.
4) HP isn't going to matter a lot, unless soloing. This character will either be buffed to near immunity or not tanking.
5) True, but hardly crippling. Neither can wear armour while casting
6) THAC0 edge goes to Kensai, if both are dualed or multied. It's a dual-multi tradeoff you're seeing.
7) Class switch over isn't that bad - I've done it for a 12 Kensai,
8) There is no level at which it's really worthwhile memorizing more than 18 spells.

All that being said, there are a variety of fighter/mage combos that work well *cough*Solaufein MOD*cough*, but I don't see a big absolute difference in effectiveness. Play what you like, you'll do fine.

mbz · Post by **mbz** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:22 am

[QUOTE=nephtu]Be a multiclassed Kensai/Mage (or Kensai/Thief, a combo I'd argue is even better). It's easy with a little SK help.

Generally, ToB really helps out multiclassed characters vs. dual classed because of the dual ability pool, and some of those effects are conflated with the class choices.

But to address your specific claims:
1) Yes, mage HLAs are limited. A plus for multiclassing, downer for single clas mages & sorcerors (Oh boy, more potions & scrolls!)
2) Alacrity is spellcasting only - you wouldn't use it with fighter abilities, you'd be burning out your spellbook instead. Energy blades would work well for either.
3) Trading off lower level spellslots for higher - could be worthwhile, could be a problem. In any case, it's mostly a dual vs. multi issue.
4) HP isn't going to matter a lot, unless soloing. This character will either be buffed to near immunity or not tanking.
5) True, but hardly crippling. Neither can wear armour while casting
6) THAC0 edge goes to Kensai, if both are dualed or multied. It's a dual-multi tradeoff you're seeing.
7) Class switch over isn't that bad - I've done it for a 12 Kensai,
8) There is no level at which it's really worthwhile memorizing more than 18 spells.

All that being said, there are a variety of fighter/mage combos that work well *cough*Solaufein MOD*cough*, but I don't see a big absolute difference in effectiveness. Play what you like, you'll do fine.[/QUOTE]

I heard from someone else that with Improved Alarcrity, one could instantly shapechange between different Creatures. I didn't know that it couldn't apply to all special abilities.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:12 am

Hmm...

It might, I've never tried it

In any case, I misunderstood you, I thought you were under the impression that it would act as some kind of combat haste - I now see that your intent is to use it to have multiple HLAs active, such as GWhirlwind + Smite + GDeathblow, right?

Could be pretty cool. (Smite or GDeathblow) + Kai + Imp Haste is certainly a pretty wicked combo, so I'd imagine you could do some cool stuff there

Good thought, whatever the case, very creative!

mbz · Post by **mbz** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:00 am

thanks...

that was my whole point of getting a multiclassed fighter/mage.

(I originally got the shape change idea from UserUnfriendly) Please try it, if you have the time...cause I can't access my computer until 1 and half weeks later...

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:09 pm

Fighter/Illusionist.

1)Gnomes rock
2)I hate having to wait for my abilities to "reactivate"
3)The extra spell from being a specialist helps offset your slower spell advancement
4)Bonus to some saving throws (from being a gnome)
5)Gnomes rock

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:13 am

6.) 2 pools of HLAs!

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:13 am

7)Gnomes rock