problems in Hell

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 5:34 pm

A paladin is always driven, his aim to follow his ideal...therefore they often gets dubbed as singleminded zealous fanatics..but its that zeal that is their drive..that makes them stand out and able to accomplish their deeds no matter what darkness that migth try to block the path

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:29 pm

Ok ok ok
If you don't read my posts carefully, I'm not responsible when I'm not able to tell you the meaning of this quest. Point.
And next thing is, I do understand what a paladin is, yes I really do.. and this paladin (in the way you explained me he would act in this certain quest) is not a paladin at all!
Yeah you can make me believe that a horse could fly, but not that a paladin, such a man of goodness, would agree to take a path which doesn't serve goodness at all, but just to get his personal status as a paladin up. And that's what all this quest is about.
Man, how can you believe that the paladin is going to act according to the foul orders of a beast, if he doesn't even save any innocent soul!
And that's right, he doesn't save ANYbody when he sacrifices himself in this quest! Why you ask? Because the beast is the only aggressor in this quest!
Well, you might view this quest from a point from which you say "The paladin thinks that the beast is really going to hurt somebody, and in lack of any better measure to prevent this, he is going to throw himself between the beast and the farmer and sacrifice himself"
But I say, to believe that this point of view exists is too virtual. Because it's a phantasm that a beast, which summons a farmer, is going to kill him. Why I think this? Because the beast could, if it were really so strong, as to summon a farmer out of nowhere, could as easily snap with it's finger and eradicate an entire village, if it were really going to do harm.
The quest is a fake because it leaves too many explanations open, the paladins who choose the selfish path (in this certain quest) should stay paladins, and the paladins who took the sacrificing path should loose their paladin-hood as punishment for beeing hipocrite.

Chris

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:35 pm

nt

[This message has been edited by Chris Boney (edited 12-02-2000).]

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 6:39 pm

chris,i would like to hear what you realized

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 7:07 pm

(The above message from Lucian doesn't have to say anything because it refers to a post of mine which didn't have to do anything with this discussion and so I had to delete it)

no text

[This message has been edited by Chris Boney (edited 12-02-2000).]

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri Dec 01, 2000 7:31 pm

*smirks*

but im not going to lecture you..im only trying to show you the way by my example..not trying to stuff oppinion of whats 'rigth' down your throat as many religions have done over the milennia..the best conversions come from the examples sets by others..inspiring the rest to follow their lead....as i said before..think of the saints who go into the death for their cause..as they was driven..paladins have that spirit....therefore sacrifing himself in the selfish quest is the rigth thing for a paladin to do..he wouldnt be able to go on..knowing he could have saved the innocent...what the demon is hoping..is if he make his human selfpreservation kick in..and make him stray from his cause

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Sat Dec 02, 2000 2:55 am

Hello again.

Listen, I think I'd like to stop this discussion at this point now. After all, it's not of any use to discuss with people, who come all together when the object in question is just fictional. I even bet you are all americans, because here you know how to gather all in masses and say how wrong I am - But when it goes for election of president - then you utterly fail. Did nobody tell you which president to vote for??
Oh poor guys, maybe you should vote the Paladin for president next time!

Chris

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Sat Dec 02, 2000 4:00 am

*smirks* Actually im not an american,i hail from denmark, europe..and im quite amused over the presidental farce over there and follows it on CNN

but as it where said, his ideals is not for everyone to understand..but i dont blame you for it

rumagent · Post by **rumagent** » Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:35 am

Saa vil jeg da lige sige hej

When did this become an election thread?

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 5:44 am

Lucian: your post at the bottom of the previous page is a nice one ...

Chris: you missed something important about the test you wrote about. First of all, he does save SOMEONE ... namely HIMSELF, regardless of whether or not the farmer is fictional or not. His choices in this matter would not affect anyone since no one knows about this, besides himself.

It is a question to determine how the Paladin sees himself, and how true he is to himself and his deity (sigh, yes I wrote this before...). Is he a Paladin down to his core? Is his conviction down to the very essence of his being? Or is it just polish, but is he underneath a cold-hearted bastard?

The difference is that the Paladin you write about THINKS about what he has to do, while a REAL Paladin will FEEL (and I stress FEEL here!) what he has to do ... being a Paladin is not about having a certain state of mind, it's about feeling it in your blood and bones ... you don't THINK about it, you DO it.

[This message has been edited by Maurice (edited 12-04-2000).]

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 5:59 am

I say kill them all with ferocity and be evil about it

I don't know whether Chris is being intentionally antagonistic just to provoke an argument.

All this talk of being righteous and good is clouding my evilness please stop before i have to pick daisies or something equally mundane.

I think they should make Carmen Electra the next President, i'd vote for her

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 8:33 am

Maurice..exactly what i tried to point out..is he true to himself?..he is driven by his conviction..and MUST do what is rigth..no matter what..meaning that it would cause him to suffer griewous wounds in order to be true to himself and his deity.

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:40 am

Hello again,
hm hmmmm yes, I could say that Mr.Sleep is right. But this would imply for Paladins, that deciding which thing is better to do, is just a matter of poking somebody into the ribs and asking him and doing whatever he suggests. But this matter is too serious to jump over the part where you have to think about the topic on your own.

Chris

------------------
Archimedes, the Greek, said 'All Grecians always lie'.
Later in the afternoon he corrected himself and corrected this:
'All Grecians always say the truth'

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 11:27 am

for a pally that wouldnt be so hard. they have a code of conduct.their religion to follow..that gives them ample backgrounds on how to find the true solution

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 1:06 pm

For crying out loud...

What was I thinking? Then again you are the same person who thinks this is an awesome RP scenario.

GM: Ok, you see Orc A and Orc B approaching.
RPFaker: Ok let me see their stats.
GM: Ok, this Orc A has 24 HP, has a Thaco of 17, wears Splint Mail under a layerof clothes, actually casts spells too and will try to blind you first. Orc B is the exact smae thing except he will try to attack you first while Orc A blinds you.
RPFaker: Ok I will try to take out the magic user first. Do i get surprise bonus since I hit him first as he is casting?
GM: Sure why not. I gave you all the info anyway so why not help you more with bonuses.

I'm sorry for this blunt and cruel response but you seriously provoked it.

Chris Boney · Post by **Chris Boney** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 6:22 pm

I had this situation once:

GM: As you enter the room carefully through the door, suddenly the door slams shut!
RPG-player: What ????
GM: An orc veteran was hiding in the corner between door and wall, because he heard you approaching. You were walking too loudly!
*grins evilly at the player*
RPG-player: Waah. Ok, what are his stats?
GM: He is level 3, has 25 hitpoints, taco 18 ac 4, dam 1d4
RPG-player: But I am only level 1!
(*Looks at his character-sheet: level 1 ranger, 9 of 12 hitpoints, taco 19, ac 10, dam 1d6*)
Ok, I -have- to hit him!
(*grasps the die with an insistence, as if it could rescue him, and murmurs some good words for good luck*)
Ok I have to hit him, pleeeeease die give me a 15 or higher. *rolls*. gets a 7.
Damn!
GM: You missed. Now the orc veteran attacks you.. *rolls a dice*.. 12! he hits you for.. *rolls again* 2 points of damage.
RPG-player: *notes down, 2 hitpoints less.*
*in a panical voice*
what if I tried to open the door?
GM: Sure, you can open the door it's not locked. But doing so will get the orc veteran a free attack with a tac0 +4.
RP-player: *thinks* Ok, I'll do that. I open the door, run out as quickly as can, and slam the door shut behind me.
GM: *rolls dices* you just lost another 3 hitpoints.
RP-player: Ok *notes the reduces hits down on his char-sheet*
I'll now run back the corridor where I came from.
GM: Ok. *rolls some dice hidden from the player*
You see that behind the orc isn't coming yet, because you slammed the door right into his face! *notes down 4 hitpoints less on a piece of paper*
RP-player: *tries to think but fails*
I need to get out! Mwahahahaa I'm gonna die!
*suddenly his face brightens as he looks at his inventory.. a thought hushes over his face like a lightning.*
Hey, do you remember still that immobile fire-elemental which didn't move nor talk?
GM: sure
RP-player: I run there where it was.
GM: Ok, you ran half the dungeon along to the fire elemental and are standing now right beside him. You hear no sound yet from the orc.
RP-player: *speaks in a hesitated voice*
Now, I go 10 meters toward the corridor which is opposite the one where the orc will come from.
GM: Ok
RP-player: And now I put the oil-flask from the lamp, which I found earlier on this skeleton into my hands.
GM: Ok
RP-player: I wait for the orc to approach. Is he coming?
GM: You wait a little bit, and after a little time the orc comes running down the corridor.
RP-player: Where is he now?
GM: He is at the other side of the corridor, about 20 meters from you.
RP-player: Ok, I wait a second until he comes a bit closer. Where is he now?
GM: He is now near the fire elemental.
RP-player: I throw my oil-flask with all force into the fire elemental!!!
GM: The flask explodes with a loud sound, and hot, burning oil spreads all over the place...

etc. etc. etc.....

Just one of many, many examples, which make out the differenc between Pen&Paper and Computer RPGs. Knowing the stats of the monsters is a good way to make great RPG. And I beg to differ about what you said in your example about bonuses, that is just plain, stupid cheating. And if quickloading like in Crpgs weren't the same as knowing the AC and spellcasting abilities of monsters, lol!
This is roleplaying, aye this is !!

Chris

[This message has been edited by Chris Boney (edited 12-06-2000).]

bullions27 · Post by **bullions27** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 1:03 am

Sigh... I'm not even gonna bother anymore.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 3:44 am

i agree..he simply is not able to perceive what the paladin is.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 5:27 am

I promised myself I would no longer bother, yet I did again

... now I won't anymore.

It takes one thing to break through a centimeters thick wooden wall ... it takes something else completely to break through a meters thick concrete wall. Let's just face it ... he can't be redeemed ...

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 6:04 am

Aye, we did our duty and attempted to bring him salvation..but he choose his path..and we have to respect that....only hoping that the examples of virtue will show him the ligth