Human's best friend : Feeblemind?

[SP101]

I was wondering (while answering to a post on the ToB forum of GameBanshee) : Do you use the spell Feeblemind? Yes or No? Often or Not? Why or Why Not?

Here's a post I just wrote about "Feeblemind vs Disintegrate" for the ToB Forum (If you want to know my Opinion on this great level 5 spell)

If you play a Sorcerer, just use a Greater Malison followed by a few Feeblemind. Then you'll have a great training Dummy.

Feeblemind
Saving Throw vs spells (at -2)
Give you a dumb enemy to bash
Spell lvl 5

Disintegrate
Saving Throw vs spells (No penality)
Destroy an opponement (and the loot)
Spell lvl 6

I just... HATE disintegrate... Why do people use it? Feeblemind is just WAY better! Sure you have to kill the enemy after, but that's just a matter of 1 minute.

S P O I L E R

Listen to my story (kids ) : I was just hunting down that Black Dragon guarding the cup in the Elven city. I was killed every time (I was pretty weak). One time, I just memorized loads of Lower Magic Resistance (With Aerie) and a few Feeblemind spells with Edwin. Aerie cast several Lower Magic Resistance while Edwin was invoking some minions and hasting my warriors. After that, I had one choice : Cast a Feeblemind and cross my fingers, or just lauch loads of Magic Missibles, Melfs Acide Arrows and Fire Arrows. My feeblemind just transformed the Dragon in a Giant Flesh Statue. That's how I discovered that magnific spell : Feeblemind.

BTW : It works really great on "small" monsters like Umber Hulks, Lesser Deamons, Golems (But they have a great Magic Resist), etc.

For the people who never really used this spell : Try it out!!!

[nephtu]

Meh...

Save or else spell. Probably ok, but hardly stellar. It's ok for the back end of level 5 spells, but not one of the compelling ones.

[fable]

If I'm going to use a save-or-else spell, I'm going to go for one that leaves my victim dead, not capable of doing more damage.

[iamweaver]

But that's the thing about Feeblemind. The monster is rendered completely useless. They won't fight, won't move, won't cast... It essentially DOES kill the critter - it just doesn't know it yet.

If I tossed out a spell sequencer that included a Malison/Doom, or if I had cast Malison, I usually would try feeblemind to take out a monster. It worked often enough to keep it memmed on 1-2 of my 3 casters (most slots being used for breach/lower resist/spell immunity/spell shield)

[fable]

iamweaver But that's the thing about Feeblemind. The monster is rendered completely useless.

True, but still alive. Why leave 'em alive if you to go to all that effort? Get out a spell that actually kills. Leave nothing to chance.

[iamweaver]

Right . But I didn't like Disintegrate because of the possible loss of junks (and doesn't have the -2), FoD can be warded against (and doesn't have the -2), Flesh to Stone doesn't have the minuses to save (and you still gotta fight the monster to get its treasures), Symbols all have HP limitations, so if I am going to try a fast all-or-nothing, Feeblemind is, IMO, the best option.

[SP101]

For those who answerer that they hate this spell or never casted it, just Try it at the Twisted Rune. With Tashia, I had 7 memorization of Feeblemind. I casted (with success) my feebleminds on : the Beholder, The Vampire, The Pit Fiend and Ravenak (The Fighter).

Whats left? A Mage (with annoying save vs spell ) and a Lich (Immunity to spells level 6 and minus)

[UserUnfriendly]

feeblemind also kills scripts...like dragon wing buffet, lich scripts, etc...highly highly useful in tactics mod, or improved battles, where you have to land that script buster before you can take them on...a spell trigger full of lower resist and a chain of malison, feebleminds is a thing of wonder...i've seen it work on ascention...

[ImmortalFlayer]

hmm

well, i don't think it's a really good spell, but then as far as save-or-else targeted spells go, it ain't bad either. it basically is as potent as finger of death spell with the same save penalty, and it's only level 5. however, for normal encounters i would argue that emotion: hopelessness is a much better spell. it's an AoE spell that doesn't need to be targeted and with greater malison, it can really disable your opponents en masse.

[SP101]

But Emotion don't last really long. Feeblemind is permanent. Don't shoot it on groups of monster, but if you encounter something like an Elder Orb, it's really useful

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=ImmortalFlayer]well, i don't think it's a really good spell, but then as far as save-or-else targeted spells go, it ain't bad either. it basically is as potent as finger of death spell with the same save penalty, and it's only level 5. however, for normal encounters i would argue that emotion: hopelessness is a much better spell. it's an AoE spell that doesn't need to be targeted and with greater malison, it can really disable your opponents en masse.[/QUOTE]

from what i heard, emotion isn't all that useful once you get higher level monsters...i've heard and used symbol fear, after my character used resist fear as being much more effective. chaos is also a script breaker, if you insist on using aoe spells...web is the best aoe spell i can think of that disables...web overlay will stop anything including planetars, demons, mind flayers, etc... and my cleric mages use contingency free action, my pc uses ring of free action...

[lompo]

[QUOTE=iamweaver]Right . But I didn't like Disintegrate because of the possible loss of junks (and doesn't have the -2), FoD can be warded against (and doesn't have the -2), Flesh to Stone doesn't have the minuses to save (and you still gotta fight the monster to get its treasures), Symbols all have HP limitations, so if I am going to try a fast all-or-nothing, Feeblemind is, IMO, the best option.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Cromatic Orm, a save or die spell of 1st (!!!!) lev., although has a bonus to save. Just load minor sequencer of C.O. and after you malison/doom combo you'll see how effective they are, and you are saving your precious higher lev. spell slots (specially for sorc.). Btw also druids have C.O. (avenger kit), very useful if you have Jaheira avenger/fighter (hehehehe!!!).

[Sytze]

I find the disintegrate-feeblemind comparisment a bit odd. They have totally different effects: disintegrate kills instantly and feeblemind disables an opponent, but it stay's alive.

Now, if you would've compared feeblemind, chaos, confusion, horror and emotion:hopelessness -which all have some sort of equal effect- you would probably have a better discussion.

I, myself, rarely use these script killers / opponent disablers. I prefer symbols or powerwords. Especially the ones that insta-kill, since that brings in a bit of tactic. You really have to time your symbol.

I don't like feeblemind, because I don't see the fun in a battle with a creature that has his script "killed". I don't like confusion, chaos and horror, because I literally hate running after enemies.
If I had to pick one, it would be emotion: hopelessness. But since it doesn't work as often as spells such as feeblemind, I only use it every now and then.

[boo's daddy]

Feeblemind is good. Nailed Firkraag first go with it, purely by chance. Recommended for medium level parties I'd say.

I tend not to like "save or die" type spells because there's a pretty good chance that it won't work against high-level opponents, or else you've got to use up lots of other slots with malison and suchlike to boost your chances.

So, for higher levels, I no longer take it, preferring spells that definitely will work (for example Breach is the same level, I think). Chromatic Orb is a good one, though, especially at high level.

[SP101]

A Death Monster and a Monster who can't do ANYTHING.... its the same thing

Feeblemind :
You encounter 2 Beholders. You Feeblemind one, and kill the 2nd one. Then, you can have one of your fighter kill the Feebleminded one without any risk.

Any Death Spell :
You encounter 2 beholders. You cast a "save or die" spell and succes (1st Beholder = Dead). Then you just kill the 2nd.

It's the SAME thing. Why do you compare Feeblemind to chaos, confusion, horror and emotion:hopelessness? Feeblemind is PERMAMENT and the enemy can't attack you. When affected by a Chaos Spell, enemies can attack you. BTW : Alot of monsters are immune to fear (in both SoA & ToB)

When someone is affected by Chaos. He can : Attack the nearest monster/player, Sit there and watch or ... RUN! When feebleminded, they just STAY IN PLACE.

[iamweaver]

One silly feeblemind note: the first time I really learned about the spell's usefulness, I was in the Slaver's Compound, and Jaheira got feebleminded. That's when I learned its complete effectiveness. In fact, since you can't rest in there, and I hardly had a "remove curse" memorized, I was thankful that I got lucky on a "dispel magic" - else I would have had to kill the poor gal in order to exit the zone

[Sytze]

[QUOTE=SP101]A Death Monster and a Monster who can't do ANYTHING.... its the same thing [/QUOTE]

No it's not. Feeblemind disables a opponent, much like emotion:hopelessness can do. Disintegrate INSTAKILLS. If you don't see a difference between a monster who dies when he's hit by disintegrate or a monster who walks around aimlessly being feebleminded, well, that must be me then.


[QUOTE=SP101]
It's the SAME thing. Why do you compare Feeblemind to chaos, confusion, horror and emotion:hopelessness? Feeblemind is PERMAMENT and the enemy can't attack you. When affected by a Chaos Spell, enemies can attack you.[/QUOTE]

I compare these spells, because they affect the mental ability of a monster. Disintegrate doesn't affect the mental ability of a monster, it simply kills. Period.
Chaos and confusion can disable an opponent, but the opponent can either run or attack you (or the nearest enemy, which isn't bad either).
Horror just makes monsters run around.
And then there's emotion:hopelessness. This spell can have the same effect as feeblemind, when it works. You see, monsters who are under the effect of this emotion aren't capable of moving either.

So now you know why I say that a feeblemind-chaos-confusion-horror-emotion:hopelessness discussion would be better? They are all spells that affect the mental state of a monster, while disintegrate insta-kills.

[SP101]

The enemy doesn't run while Feebleminded... he just sit there like a huge rock.

Feeblemind doesn't make the enemy run like Fear or any other spell. It's like an Insta-Kill.

[iamweaver]

I classify feeblemind with the instakill spells because, unlike all of the spells that you mention, there are absolutely no "side effects" from the spell (monster movement/actions at all), and most importantly, there is no spell duration. If you Feebleminded Firstraag in Act 2, then returned in act 6, he would still be Feebleminded. The only way that feeblemind is unlike an instakill spell is that scripted plot movements won't occur, because the monster is not dead - merely immobile, helpless, unable to speak/cast/attack/defend/resist.

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=UserUnfriendly]feeblemind also kills scripts...like dragon wing buffet, lich scripts, etc...highly highly useful in tactics mod, or improved battles, where you have to land that script buster before you can take them on...a spell trigger full of lower resist and a chain of malison, feebleminds is a thing of wonder...i've seen it work on ascention... [/QUOTE]

Thats the reason for me to save at least one slot for it. Its effects are very good, and saves you troubles when fighting crowds. Why would Weimer add feebleminds and command sleep to his improved battles if they are not cool spells?