I've noticed many people that have played KOTOR, using a Scoundrel, have nasty things to say about this particular class. Now I'm not one to point fingers or get angry over a someones opinion, but I was curious as to why some people don't like the Scoundrel class.
I will take into account that yes, they lack VP and Feats, but they more than make up for it in skills. Now I'm simply providing my "argument", (please don't turn this into a war of some kind), and to start off my side:
They have a great number of skills points to spend per level, and this can make you a real, Jack-Of-All-Trades, as well as the highest Defense in the game, (right next to the Scout), and combine your +4 Improved Scoundrel's Luck, and if you invested in Master Dueling another +3 bonus to your defense. And once you become a Jedi, you can recieve up to a +6 defensive bonus through Master Force Sense. Also taking into account your overall Dex rating, and you have a character that can dodge, as well as take the hits.
On to my second argument: They can deal out a great deal of damage. Yes, many of you do not belive me, but I'm sure you've happened to come across the Scoundrel's Sneak Attack? Using a stealth generator, or Force Paralysis/Insantity, you can deal out awesome damage from a distance, and if you stun them you can deal out just the same amount of damage as well. Combine any of this upgrades for your lightsaber that improves your Critical Hits and your a force to be reckoned with.
I now some of you may dislike me more when I say that I belive Mission is one of your better characters and is more valuable than many of you belive. I've brought her with me everywhere I go once I'm a Jedi. I let Mission sneak up behind an enemy, get her to blast away, while my Jedi character suddenly leaps half way across the screen (yes, a Scoundrel/Gaurdian combo works wonders), and since the enemy has turned to face Mission, if he wasn't killed in one hit, my character simply finishs him off. Now the enemy learns to fear the Stealthy Dou, for they are a devestating combitation.
As a last short opinion, I feel that many people classify the Scoundrel to be best suited for Jedi Consluar, which I belive is the worst mistake you could make, as Consluars have the same amount of VP, and still less Feats then a normal Scoundrel. The best Jedi class, I believe, for the Scoundrel is a Jedi Sentinel, and next to that the Jedi Gaurdian. Only go Jedi Consular if want pure Force powers, and are willing to trade better melee damage for cool Force Power affects.
That's just my opinion, but i want other peoples opinions as well. Are you for the Scoundrel class or against it? (Please don't war this thread)
The Scoundrel?
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FireLighter
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First of all, people dont hate you, they may have friendly arguments, but never hate (not here anyways, we are a peaceful people) and second, welcome to the forums 
, third I completely agree with you.
, third I completely agree with you."To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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fable
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I now some of you may dislike me more when I say that I belive Mission is one of your better characters...
Not at all, at least, not here. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and if you read the forum rules you'll see that flaming isn't allowed. It's been stopped for things involving politics and religion down in the SYM (Speak Your Mind) forum area. How much more likely do you think it will be tolerated for even sillier arguments in KotoR?
So much for my mod hat. As a player, I found Mission one of my most useful characters, largely because I played a soldier who had plenty of feats and powers, but no skills. Mission was invaluable at such times, at least until I'd raised up the skills of other jedi.
As a solo character, I think a scoundrel would make an excellent challenge. In a party, personally, I'm less inclined to use one, simply because his/her skills would be duplicated by other party members; but if you enjoy it, that's your choice. As long as you didn't steal the game, what you do with it once it's purchased is your business.
Not at all, at least, not here. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and if you read the forum rules you'll see that flaming isn't allowed. It's been stopped for things involving politics and religion down in the SYM (Speak Your Mind) forum area. How much more likely do you think it will be tolerated for even sillier arguments in KotoR?
So much for my mod hat. As a player, I found Mission one of my most useful characters, largely because I played a soldier who had plenty of feats and powers, but no skills. Mission was invaluable at such times, at least until I'd raised up the skills of other jedi.
As a solo character, I think a scoundrel would make an excellent challenge. In a party, personally, I'm less inclined to use one, simply because his/her skills would be duplicated by other party members; but if you enjoy it, that's your choice. As long as you didn't steal the game, what you do with it once it's purchased is your business.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
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Darth_Gizka
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Scoundreal
Wouldn't Scoundrel/Guardian combo be better, because they have force jump and that is always a critical + sneak attack? However If you wanted to focus on skills I would agree that Sentinel would be better. I'm not that a big fan of scoundrel (I don't like being weak in the early game, when you can't use force powers)
Frankly I don't know much about the scoundrel, I have failed the first few attempts (should be more patient ) and so...
I will try a build of 7/13 Scoundrel Guardian
10 Str
16 Dex
10 Int
12 Con
14 Wis
14 Cha
And what would I level up? Dex and Wis? I don't know...
I need a character that will be quite skilled in melee, (The old man can do all the others) while not neglecting force powers for support.
Since sneak attack is added to criticals, I would find it best to invest in Critical strike (Or is it?)
a 7/13 will give me 9 feats, so
3 Critical (?) with crital crystal
3 Two Hand
3 Jedi Defence (?)
With Mission, she has 8 feats, so...
3 dueling
3 sniper shot
2 toughness + improved toughness
I currently have mission in my party, and she doesnt seem to be doing much because as soon as i stun/stassis somebody, my other jedi comes along and hacks the guy in half before the sniper shot can even hit (and yes, sniper shot takes so long to fire!) maybe i should give her vibroblades and flurry/critical
Focus on Dex (?) and Stealth (What does stealth do really? when stealth mode is not on? If it is high enough will the enemy see me? and if they dont see me will i get the sneak attack bonus? (because stealth mode is rather pointless in constant combat)
The real only reason people hate scoundrel is that you really have to work with limited resources if they aren't leveled correctly, so can you help me with this pathetic thing that i wrote up and hopefully rekindle my faith in the scoundrel? and another reason why ppl like soldier/guardian may be because they can leave their character alone and work with other characters more.
Rather obvious spoiler
And since you cant do much in the last battle with force powers (u can always zap him and such but its hard to do a stun (or impossible?) u can just pretty much beat him up good with soldat
Darth Giz
Wouldn't Scoundrel/Guardian combo be better, because they have force jump and that is always a critical + sneak attack? However If you wanted to focus on skills I would agree that Sentinel would be better. I'm not that a big fan of scoundrel (I don't like being weak in the early game, when you can't use force powers)
Frankly I don't know much about the scoundrel, I have failed the first few attempts (should be more patient
) and so...I will try a build of 7/13 Scoundrel Guardian
10 Str
16 Dex
10 Int
12 Con
14 Wis
14 Cha
And what would I level up? Dex and Wis? I don't know...
I need a character that will be quite skilled in melee, (The old man can do all the others) while not neglecting force powers for support.
Since sneak attack is added to criticals, I would find it best to invest in Critical strike (Or is it?)
a 7/13 will give me 9 feats, so
3 Critical (?) with crital crystal
3 Two Hand
3 Jedi Defence (?)
With Mission, she has 8 feats, so...
3 dueling
3 sniper shot
2 toughness + improved toughness
I currently have mission in my party, and she doesnt seem to be doing much because as soon as i stun/stassis somebody, my other jedi comes along and hacks the guy in half before the sniper shot can even hit (and yes, sniper shot takes so long to fire!) maybe i should give her vibroblades and flurry/critical
Focus on Dex (?) and Stealth (What does stealth do really? when stealth mode is not on? If it is high enough will the enemy see me? and if they dont see me will i get the sneak attack bonus? (because stealth mode is rather pointless in constant combat)
The real only reason people hate scoundrel is that you really have to work with limited resources if they aren't leveled correctly, so can you help me with this pathetic thing that i wrote up and hopefully rekindle my faith in the scoundrel?
and another reason why ppl like soldier/guardian may be because they can leave their character alone and work with other characters more.Rather obvious spoiler
And since you cant do much in the last battle with force powers (u can always zap him and such but its hard to do a stun (or impossible?) u can just pretty much beat him up good with soldat
Darth Giz
Haha
Whew
I've been to other forums, and almost had my face ripped off when I spoke my mind about the Scoundrel class and how valuable Mission is. It's nice to see people here are fare more open.
Another thing I forgot to say about the Scoundrel is that, yes, its not a class you want to use for heavy combat, but more to use the Scoundrels skills to twart your enemies, such as using stealth in combination with say a few mines or grenades. Once example of using my skills is on Taris, when you have to get past a certain huge beast that blocks your way into Vulkar Base. Using stealth, I snuck right past it, and once I near the opposite door, I just started chucking grenades, and this beast couldn't do anything, because it's to large to get onto the platform.
Spoiler:
So now I get 700 experience points instead of 200
I've been to other forums, and almost had my face ripped off when I spoke my mind about the Scoundrel class and how valuable Mission is. It's nice to see people here are fare more open.
Another thing I forgot to say about the Scoundrel is that, yes, its not a class you want to use for heavy combat, but more to use the Scoundrels skills to twart your enemies, such as using stealth in combination with say a few mines or grenades. Once example of using my skills is on Taris, when you have to get past a certain huge beast that blocks your way into Vulkar Base. Using stealth, I snuck right past it, and once I near the opposite door, I just started chucking grenades, and this beast couldn't do anything, because it's to large to get onto the platform.
Spoiler:
So now I get 700 experience points instead of 200
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Darth_Gizka
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Seeing as how I want this to be a discussion, just send me an email if you wish to know the best ways to level up a Scoundrel, as well as ways to "PowerGame" with a Scoundrel. I can help you turn your dying Scoundrel into a warrior, powerful mind, and completely balanced uber Jedi. Just send me an email with the subject line reading: Scoundrel Secrets
SPOILER/CHEAT:
As a second note, I was recently on the official Kotor forums, and discovered a "level up" cheat, that can be used extremely well with the Scoundrel, and I've modified this glitch to even give myself Master Scoundrel's Luck at level 4. I personaly to not support cheating, but after you've beaten the game over 20 times, its fun to mess around. Also if you want any other glitches I've personaly discovered, email me, and I'll tell you about my Endire Spire Infinite glitch.
SPOILER/CHEAT:
As a second note, I was recently on the official Kotor forums, and discovered a "level up" cheat, that can be used extremely well with the Scoundrel, and I've modified this glitch to even give myself Master Scoundrel's Luck at level 4. I personaly to not support cheating, but after you've beaten the game over 20 times, its fun to mess around. Also if you want any other glitches I've personaly discovered, email me, and I'll tell you about my Endire Spire Infinite glitch.
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fable
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Sonic, with respect, we still would rather keep the discussion here, rather than through emails or PMs. Feel free to discuss your opinions on KotoR in this forum.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=Sonic] I will take into account that yes, they lack VP and Feats, but they more than make up for it in skills. Now I'm simply providing my "argument", (please don't turn this into a war of some kind), and to start off my side:
They have a great number of skills points to spend per level, and this can make you a real, Jack-Of-All-Trades, as well as the highest Defense in the game, (right next to the Scout), and combine your +4 Improved Scoundrel's Luck, and if you invested in Master Dueling another +3 bonus to your defense. And once you become a Jedi, you can recieve up to a +6 defensive bonus through Master Force Sense. Also taking into account your overall Dex rating, and you have a character that can dodge, as well as take the hits.[/QUOTE]
I would prefer extra feats to extra skills any day.
[QUOTE=Sonic] On to my second argument: They can deal out a great deal of damage. Yes, many of you do not belive me, but I'm sure you've happened to come across the Scoundrel's Sneak Attack? Using a stealth generator, or Force Paralysis/Insantity, you can deal out awesome damage from a distance, and if you stun them you can deal out just the same amount of damage as well. Combine any of this upgrades for your lightsaber that improves your Critical Hits and your a force to be reckoned with. [/QUOTE]
Yes, sneak attacks are nice, but you will have to give up an entire item slot. And for your main character your sneak attack never reaches a reaaly significant level. Sneak attacks do combo well with jump though.
[QUOTE=Sonic] I now some of you may dislike me more when I say that I belive Mission is one of your better characters and is more valuable than many of you belive. I've brought her with me everywhere I go once I'm a Jedi. I let Mission sneak up behind an enemy, get her to blast away, while my Jedi character suddenly leaps half way across the screen (yes, a Scoundrel/Gaurdian combo works wonders), and since the enemy has turned to face Mission, if he wasn't killed in one hit, my character simply finishs him off. Now the enemy learns to fear the Stealthy Dou, for they are a devestating combitation. [/QUOTE]
IMO: Jedi > Ranged Support > Tank > Rogue > T3
I generally just jump around using Power Attacks and Flurrys.
[QUOTE=Sonic] As a last short opinion, I feel that many people classify the Scoundrel to be best suited for Jedi Consluar, which I belive is the worst mistake you could make, as Consluars have the same amount of VP, and still less Feats then a normal Scoundrel. The best Jedi class, I believe, for the Scoundrel is a Jedi Sentinel, and next to that the Jedi Gaurdian. Only go Jedi Consular if want pure Force powers, and are willing to trade better melee damage for cool Force Power affects.[/QUOTE]
Jedi Consular is merely the corrisponding class (Soldier=Guardian & Scout=Sentinal). Sentinal is generally regarded as the worst of the Jedi classes.
I'm not for or against scoundrel, I just love my soldier class far more. If you want skills, just take T3 or Mission.
They have a great number of skills points to spend per level, and this can make you a real, Jack-Of-All-Trades, as well as the highest Defense in the game, (right next to the Scout), and combine your +4 Improved Scoundrel's Luck, and if you invested in Master Dueling another +3 bonus to your defense. And once you become a Jedi, you can recieve up to a +6 defensive bonus through Master Force Sense. Also taking into account your overall Dex rating, and you have a character that can dodge, as well as take the hits.[/QUOTE]
I would prefer extra feats to extra skills any day.
[QUOTE=Sonic] On to my second argument: They can deal out a great deal of damage. Yes, many of you do not belive me, but I'm sure you've happened to come across the Scoundrel's Sneak Attack? Using a stealth generator, or Force Paralysis/Insantity, you can deal out awesome damage from a distance, and if you stun them you can deal out just the same amount of damage as well. Combine any of this upgrades for your lightsaber that improves your Critical Hits and your a force to be reckoned with. [/QUOTE]
Yes, sneak attacks are nice, but you will have to give up an entire item slot. And for your main character your sneak attack never reaches a reaaly significant level. Sneak attacks do combo well with jump though.
[QUOTE=Sonic] I now some of you may dislike me more when I say that I belive Mission is one of your better characters and is more valuable than many of you belive. I've brought her with me everywhere I go once I'm a Jedi. I let Mission sneak up behind an enemy, get her to blast away, while my Jedi character suddenly leaps half way across the screen (yes, a Scoundrel/Gaurdian combo works wonders), and since the enemy has turned to face Mission, if he wasn't killed in one hit, my character simply finishs him off. Now the enemy learns to fear the Stealthy Dou, for they are a devestating combitation. [/QUOTE]
IMO: Jedi > Ranged Support > Tank > Rogue > T3
I generally just jump around using Power Attacks and Flurrys.
[QUOTE=Sonic] As a last short opinion, I feel that many people classify the Scoundrel to be best suited for Jedi Consluar, which I belive is the worst mistake you could make, as Consluars have the same amount of VP, and still less Feats then a normal Scoundrel. The best Jedi class, I believe, for the Scoundrel is a Jedi Sentinel, and next to that the Jedi Gaurdian. Only go Jedi Consular if want pure Force powers, and are willing to trade better melee damage for cool Force Power affects.[/QUOTE]
Jedi Consular is merely the corrisponding class (Soldier=Guardian & Scout=Sentinal). Sentinal is generally regarded as the worst of the Jedi classes.
I'm not for or against scoundrel, I just love my soldier class far more. If you want skills, just take T3 or Mission.
"Heya! Have you been to Baldur's Gate? I've been to Baldur's Gate... Oops, stepped into something. Have you stepped into something?"
Quite true with the Sneak Attack statment, however as I've said, I've discovered these killer glitches, and I can get you the highest sneak attack at level 2 and Master Dueling, and Master Scoudrel's Luck at level 4.
I dont condon cheating but I've beaten the game so many times now, its fun to mess around with an Uber Powerful Scoundrel
I dont condon cheating but I've beaten the game so many times now, its fun to mess around with an Uber Powerful Scoundrel
I'll let you figure out how to take advantage of this glitch, but if you do want a full version, (like getting an extra skill point for levels 2 and 3, and 4 - though I tend to get Master Scoundrel's Luck at this level), then let me know.
Glitch: Once your character has enough XP and can level up, (make sure none of your other party memeber are ready to level up with you, it'll mess you up). Press the black button to switch to another party memeber, but rapidly press the "A" button before it fully switches to the other memeber. Now it should show your characters face on the left, and your party memeber should appear on the full portrait to the right. This can be done even over level 20, but after that you only skill points not feats or attributes.
Now lets say you bought Dueling at the begining of the game, level up to level 16, so that on 17 you can level up normaly, (and get the highest Sneak Attack level ), now make sure you invested in Improved Dueling before level 17. Now simply buy Master Dueling, put all your skill points into whatever you want. Now scroll over to your Feats and Skills page, and it should show you skipped over Improved Dueling and now you have Master Dueling at level 2.
Any other questions, let me know
Glitch: Once your character has enough XP and can level up, (make sure none of your other party memeber are ready to level up with you, it'll mess you up). Press the black button to switch to another party memeber, but rapidly press the "A" button before it fully switches to the other memeber. Now it should show your characters face on the left, and your party memeber should appear on the full portrait to the right. This can be done even over level 20, but after that you only skill points not feats or attributes.
Now lets say you bought Dueling at the begining of the game, level up to level 16, so that on 17 you can level up normaly, (and get the highest Sneak Attack level
), now make sure you invested in Improved Dueling before level 17. Now simply buy Master Dueling, put all your skill points into whatever you want. Now scroll over to your Feats and Skills page, and it should show you skipped over Improved Dueling and now you have Master Dueling at level 2. Any other questions, let me know
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Darth_Gizka
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What do you mean by the black button? Is it the portrait of the other character?
And what is the key "a" set as? Because i totally changed the key mappings and it didn't work with mine.
It would be nice to hit a guy in Taris with 40 dmg and kill him on the spot. Lol
and with scoundrel do u need around 12 str to start out? because when u get to use lightsabers its str that does the dmg (or is it?)
And what is the key "a" set as? Because i totally changed the key mappings and it didn't work with mine.
It would be nice to hit a guy in Taris with 40 dmg and kill him on the spot. Lol
and with scoundrel do u need around 12 str to start out? because when u get to use lightsabers its str that does the dmg (or is it?)
Haha