A Poll: NPC Mods

Lady Pirate · Post by **Lady Pirate** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:39 am

I was inspired to start this by a thread in the forgotten wars forums. The question there was, what do you look for in a NPC mod? (a romance, powerful items, quality banters, fits in well with the game, etc.) This question is meant to help potential modders, but in addition, I would like to add the question: which mods accomplish what you are looking for?

Example: I would say that how well the mod fits in with the original game is the most important to me. Contrary to popular opinion, I think that the Valen mod does this the best, because:
1.Somehow mods made around already existing characters seem a more natural transition. You aren't left wondering, where the heck did this character come from? And because it was in the original game, it fits in with the original spirit of the game.
2.In my opinion, the Valen mod was something the game needed: an evil thief.
3.Although Soulafein also takes a character in the original game, to me Valen seems very much the way she did in the original game, and quite honestly the lack of soundset hurt Soulafein in the believability department imo. (characters who had no, only one, etc, point and clickety voiceset, disturbed me, for some unknown reason)

That isn't to say that I don't love and use Soulafein and other mods, but to me Valen is the most believable. That matter of her being "overpowered" discussed in many forums, is, imo, not a matter of the author giving her excessive power, but a matter of vampires being powerful creatures, and *possibly* not the best NPC choices.

So, what are everyone else's opinions on the matter?

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:18 pm

So far, I think Kelsey is the best mod out there.

1) He has plenty of banter and dialogs. And then I really mean plenty. His dialogs (and the NPC's reactions) capture the essence of a NPC. Plus some of his dialogs are funny and help the role-playing element. Kelsey showed his "banter-quality" to me especially in ToB when the romance between Imoen and the sorcerer started to develop. It really grabbed me and took me further into the story unlike any mod -or for that matter, any bioware NPC- has given me so far.

2) He has voicing, a good background story and romances the PC (although I never tried that and probably never will). And even when he doesn't romance the PC, the banters and dialogs show up more then enough, and he will even romance another character.

3) In short, I think Kelsey is very well developed.
Created by people who obviously show love for the game and their creation. Although I haven't played Valen yet, I've played Tashia, Chloe, Solafein and a bit of Kiara-Zaiya, but so far I think Kelsey is the best "mod" out there.
I’m certainly looking forward to the Kitanya, Kivan, Krondor and Delainy mod (which are in development quite long now and which I followed the most), but for now, it's Kelsey.

Just my two cents though

Talonsblade · Post by **Talonsblade** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:11 pm

kelsy rocks best mod, just reinstalled bg2 then patchs, and then installed mods i wanted but i installed kelsy last cant wait to get him doing solo run this time just me and kelsy alone lol

SP101 · Post by **SP101** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:45 pm

Solaufein is one of the best (with Kelsey).

Yes, he's a little overpowered but you can (easily) lower his stats with Shadow Keeper but he have SO many dialogues with everyone (except this crappy three-lover named Cernd

and maybe few others lost-in-the-wood characters like Mazzy & Valygar

). He's fun to play with (Fighter/Mages are one of my favorites classes) and has a nice side-quest with a nice reward ... a shining new sword

Spoiler

delivered by his goddess

Spoiler

.

Kelsey is really great too (I like having him and Anomen in the same party

)

trance · Post by **trance** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:01 am

To me, the most important thing is that the NPC seems just like any of the Bioware NPCs. In other words, I look for mod NPCs who a new player could not tell apart from the normal ones. I think Kelsey is the best example of this, although most of the high-profile NPC mods available do a pretty good job as well.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:23 am

[QUOTE=SP101]Solaufein is one of the best (with Kelsey).

Yes, he's a little overpowered but you can (easily) lower his stats with Shadow Keeper but ...[/QUOTE]

It's not the stats that make him overpowered...

jcompton · Post by **jcompton** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:43 am

[QUOTE=SP101]Solaufein is one of the best (with Kelsey).

Yes, he's a little overpowered but you can (easily) lower his stats with Shadow Keeper but he have SO many dialogues with everyone (except this crappy three-lover named Cernd[/QUOTE]

Actually, last I checked Solaufein has exactly two banters with each BioNPC. Including Cernd.

SP101 · Post by **SP101** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:54 am

I'm sure he has at least 3 with Imoen... and ALOT with the PC and some Vendors/NPCs. Everytime you go in a library, he ask for poems.

Well, what I'm looking for in a NPC mod is : Dialogs, Dialogs, and again : Dialogs. Side Quests can't hurt too

Jkittenluv21 · Post by **Jkittenluv21** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:49 am

NPC Mods

Not to sound like everyone else, but the Kelsey mod is my favorite, for not only the romance, but the banters between him and the other NPCs make him so much more realistic. But you know, I might be a little biased too, cause I am such a sucker for a romantic guy (sigh!). Besides, he makes my husband a little jealous, cause I gush over all the cute things he does, hee hee!

Also, the Kelsey mod blends the most seamlessly with the other characters. I like the Solaufein mod, but he joins the party so late in the game. Although I really like the philosophical and moral debates that Solaufein has, I like it better when Kelsey is trying his best to be supportive and understanding. Basically, I guess I like Kelsey more cause he spends his time focusing on how to be charming and adorable. And the spats between him and Anomen are so funny, they had me laughing out loud.
On top of all that, Kelsey has triggered my interest in BGII again, so come football season when I lose my husband to the TV and ESPN, I'll at least have something to keep busy with!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:02 pm

I have tried Kelsey, Solaufein, Tashia, and Chloe, and I've enjoyed all thoroughly.

It is hard to say which of these is my favourite because each mod has features about it I really like.

* Kelsey is easily the best-developed mod in terms of truly extensive dialogue, voice acting and interaction with the other NPCs. Everything has been fine-tuned to the last detail. The only thing I would really say is that Kelsey doesn't strike me as quite believable as a Bioware NPC... he seems... well a little too 20/21 century in some regards. I don't know if this has changed since I initially played through the mod, but upon one of the first encounters with the Cowled Wizards in the Government District, Kelsey referred to them as a bunch of fascists. lol!

* I am really drawn by Solaufein's character (I am always a sucker for the dark, brooding types

). While his development certainly does draw away from what seems to have been his original personality, I do think, nonetheless, that he could easily have been a Bioware NPC.. just not, perhaps, Solaufein.

I think that maybe his dialogue could have been expanded a bit.. and perhaps been somewhat less stilted.. Again though voice acting would do much to remedy that.

* I don't know Tashia quite as well because I have not done the romance, but from what I have seen her character is very well developed and fits well into the scape of Faerun. My only criticism of Tashia (and I have the most recent version) is that she does not seem to be bug-free yet.

*I think Chloe is probably my favourite mod so far. I love her personality, wonderful character development, great dialogue and NPC interactions.. and I find her very credible in terms of fitting into the BG2 world.

Okay, so she's a bit overpowered, but that does depend a lot on how the player uses her

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:26 pm

A bit more detailed opinion about Tashia and Sola...

*Solafein is a great NPC in my opinion. He would probably make it into my party a lot of times, if he wouldn't have two drawbacks that is.
One -like DW pointed out- is that he doesn't have voicing. Voicing ads so much more depth to the character, it makes an NPC more believable.
The second drawback is that he gets in the party so late. Normally I do every quest before I head off to Immie, and Sola just comes in too late then. If he would be available from the beginning, Sola would be used/downloaded more often. At least, that's what I think.

*Tashia is a great NPC, really. She has nice dialogs, but only with the PC. Her biggest drawbacks are that she doesn't have real voicing and that she doesn't have much banters. I heard Bri is working on Tashia, so I'm really looking forward to a more expanded Tashia who has more dialogs with other NPC's and more banters. I tried Tashia a while ago and I'm using her in my current game, but so far I have not yet encountered bugs
.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:32 pm

[QUOTE=Sytze]A bit more detailed opinion about Tashia and Sola...

*Solafein is a great NPC in my opinion. He would probably make it into my party a lot of times, if he wouldn't have two drawbacks that is.
One -like DW pointed out- is that he doesn't have voicing. Voicing ads so much more depth to the character, it makes an NPC more believable.
The second drawback is that he gets in the party so late. Normally I do every quest before I head off to Immie, and Sola just comes in too late then. If he would be available from the beginning, Sola would be used/downloaded more often. At least, that's what I think.

.[/QUOTE]

Thats the same reason lotsa people never joined with Ajantis, Tiax or the other players in BG1, for that was too late in the game... A good way to play him is go straight to the Underdark and get him. Like, sell all good stuff and send a suicide party into the deep night. Done that once, and even that has not raised the gameplay experience with Sola, cause I'd like to actually enter the Udd with him, such as we can do with Viconia.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:44 pm

If I plan on having Sola join I always head to the Underdark first. It is too bad you can't enter the place with him.. but I can't see how that would really fit into the existing storyline... it would need to be tinkered with significantly.
Personally, I think that unless you are playing some slimeball, it makes sense from a roleplaying perspective to first head off to Imoen's rescue anyway.. I mean.. your little sister has been kidnapped by a bunch of power hungry wizards! Added to that, Irenicus is likely somewhere near Imoen as well... I don't know.. I recall thinking my first time through the game that it seemd awfully odd how suddenly Irenicus meakly acquiesced and allowed himself to be captured.. given his obvious power.

jcompton · Post by **jcompton** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:03 am

dragon wench wrote:I don't know if this has changed since I initially played through the mod, but upon one of the first encounters with the Cowled Wizards in the Government District, Kelsey referred to them as a bunch of fascists. lol!

FR has monarchies and democracies and republics and on and on. Why can't it have fascists? Besides...

*I think Chloe is probably my favourite mod so far. I love her personality, wonderful character development, great dialogue and NPC interactions.. and I find her very credible in terms of fitting into the BG2 world.

...you're bothered by "fascist" but not by Chloe successfully intimidating Renal in his own guildhouse?

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:13 am

It's not a matter of having fascistic governments, but of the use of the term "fascist" and the mindset to employ it. In medieval times, a government which was extremely repressive was simply that. Such concepts as "personal liberty" were foreign to Europe until the later Renaissance, and then only rarely occurred. If people didn't like their rulers, they might try overthrowing them, but they never related doing so to some theoretical knowledge of the "rights of man." Fascist itself is a term with a 20th century vogue.

So it's kinda anachronistic to hear it in BG2. But no big deal.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:52 am

Kelsey is a nice NPC mod, one of the very best. He is a barrel of laughs with Jan Jansen in tandem.

Valen is also nicely done, if you are playing an evil party, though she is even more overpowered than, say, Tashia. You gotta love her claws.

"MEEEEEOOOW!" There goes a paladin!

trance · Post by **trance** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:23 pm

Remember Fable that BG2 does not take place in Europe

.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:32 pm

[QUOTE=trance]Remember Fable that BG2 does not take place in Europe

.[/QUOTE]Not literally, no. However, it is set in a pseudo-medieval time frame, and it has all the romanticized trappings of what we imagine as medieval Europe.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:38 pm

[QUOTE=jcompton]FR has monarchies and democracies and republics and on and on. Why can't it have fascists? Besides

...you're bothered by "fascist" but not by Chloe successfully intimidating Renal in his own guildhouse?[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree that the Cowled Wizards appear 'fascistic' in tactics and personality; that was actually my impression upon first playing the game. It is only that the term 'fascist' is one I associate more with the modern nation state, so hearing it from Kelsey struck me as somewhat incongruous. But honestly, it is a minor detail, and as I said before, Kelsey is a truly fine mod.

Well.. I was suprised by that incident with Chloe.. but it did not appear out of character given her alignment, personality and background story.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:45 pm

Valen is really creepy. And powerfull. And in the mod, she is confident on that, so she dares to do that, and she get successfull.

I dont like Kelsey much, nor that "one day mod" with a fighter mage from the Cowled ranks (forgot his name).

One mod that I particulary dislike is immy romance. Has nothing to do with immy for real, and seems more with Viccy speaking than Immy.