RPGs... Male dominated

[fable]

[QUOTE=Ekental]errmmm.... do keep in mind that many of the girls are ACTUALLY guys PLAYING as girls. While girls do this to you just don't find quite the same ammount, (Prolly something to do with the bikini style character skins on girls )[/quote]

I've been playing MMORPGs since the Web became available, and I've played table top RPGs since 1980. I have also deliberately started male and female characters in several online games to judge comparative attitudes within the micro-culture of the game itself. So while I hardly know a lot about 'em, I think it's safe to say that I've considered these questions, and that I'm aware of at least some of the possibilities.

As for the differences between girls and guys pyschologically, the different natural steroids might prove to be a large factor in behavioral tendencies and would help explain why guys like violence more than girls.

Research has shown that testosterone, far from inciting violence, actually produces lethargy and pacific behavior in larger quantities. In smaller doses, it has no effect on social behavior. I wish CE were here, but you might search back in the threads for CElegans' posts, where she listed the exact research done, and quoted from sources.

Also... as for people who are interested in literature and play BG for the storyline, I know a total of .... 0 people. Of the people who are interested in physics, chem, math, who play BG for the storyline (and the violence,blood and gore, and they seem to get blurred together) I know.... 13
End result is that I beilieve that RPGers are normally the hardcore techies and not the fuzzies (Social sciences... >.>)

I'm not sure what you mean by "hardcore techies." That phrase is not synonymous with any scientists; I wouldn't call a geologist a hardcore techie. A geologist might also be a programmer, but the two are distinct, I think.

In addition, the people who were involved in my first table top RPG back in 1980 included a lawyer, a radio station manager, and a publicist. Of a variety of people who post in our BG2 threads, I know several are involved in the arts, at least one is a stockbroker, and two are lawyers. The market for software games, especially RPGs, is IMO simply too broad these days to be narrowly as hardcore techies.

[Xandax]

/off topic
why does everybody overlook the entier piece I've written earlier. It says the same as others after me but no .... nobody listens to me, unless I pull the moderator sig. out and then they just make fun of me
*sobbing*
Give me attention dang it
/on topic



[QUOTE=Ekental]errmmm.... do keep in mind that many of the girls are ACTUALLY guys PLAYING as girls. While girls do this to you just don't find quite the same ammount, (Prolly something to do with the bikini style character skins on girls )
<snip>
[/QUOTE]

In the MMOGs I've played - the more "hardcore" people used tools such as TeamSpeak (and what else they are called).
I was surprised at how many girls were actually in the channels set up, when I joined in on some in-game friends raids.
Many guys play girls for sure, for the attention (a friend of mine started a girl character in DAoC as his first, he got so much help it was insane ) - but there are girls that play - and there are also girls that play guys to get "left alone".
But as I said in my ealier post (the one you all shamelessly overlook ) I think the playing field is starting to level out, so to speak - as with all other aspects of society.

[unregisturd]

Ah, too much debate. And it seems like we've gotten nowhere. All I know is I'm a girl, and when I was a kid I used to play with Barbies... I'd pull their heads off and my friends and I would see how high/far we could throw them and how distorted their bodies were when they hit the ground. I have noticed that in my school, the majority that play video games were guys, but they weren't all necessarily violent. And I knew some girls who were addicted to violence. Everyone's different, and I guess I don't really have an opinion on this. I've had my head bitten off too many times for making "stereotypical" comments when they weren't stereotypical at all. I, personally, as a female, enjoy violent games (RPGs included) where there is much killing involved. But I also enjoy games where I don't have to kill everything in my path to get the job done. I enjoy either side just as much as the other. I do not like, however, movies and things where there is excessive needless gory killing of human beings/animals. Movies where they have to show it all and they killed the guy for no reason and blah blah blah... Those kinds of things disturb me, but I think that's just a part of my human nature. But I'm getting off track... When I was younger, I knew guys who were more "girly" than I was. They played with barbies and things like that, while I preferred destroying and building things. Legos are still a personal favorite of mine. Anyways, I typed a lot but didn't say much. I guess my opinion is everyone's different. Each to their own, and... I dunno. Girls and guys are different. That's all I'm gonna say.

[fable]

Ah, too much debate. And it seems like we've gotten nowhere.

Debate sometimes yields useful information, but it seldom causes a change of viewpoint. It isn't linear; it's simply an exchange of individual opinions. Unless it gets nasty, in which case it's achievements are solely negative.

Girls and guys are different.

As Spencer Tracy said to Kathryn Hepburn at the conclusion of Adam's Rib, "Vive le Diff-France!" I heartily concur with those sentiments. But it's only the biological differences that I see, and you appear to be of the same sentiment. There's a far greater difference between women in New York City and women in Utah, for instance, than between men and women, at least from what I can see, and the people I've known over many years.

[Bloodthroe]

Not all games are about volience. They are about obsticles mainly.
Video games aren't exactly so male dominated either...
Female based games:
PN03
Blood Raven
Dino Crisis
Tomb Raider
Final Fantasy 10-2
Metroid
Many of the Resident Evil games
Silent Hill
Cy Girls
Parasite Eve
I could probably go on, but I don't care...

Another reason why games may be male based is that men are the ones creating them and when they think up a story, they may choose a male by default. They also are able to create games that men could coop with easier.

BUT, the real reason why men play video games more then women depends on the culture of our society. We could easily tweek our society to make it so women play games more then men.

I see women in and playing video games everywhere. I figure most don't, because they believe in steriotyping... or maybe they're just stupid. Even if males are the majority.

[Lost One]

[QUOTE=fable]As Spencer Tracy said to Kathryn Hepburn at the conclusion of Adam's Rib, "Vive le Diff-France!" I heartily concur with those sentiments. But it's only the biological differences that I see, and you appear to be of the same sentiment. There's a far greater difference between women in New York City and women in Utah, for instance, than between men and women, at least from what I can see, and the people I've known over many years.[/QUOTE]

That 'Vive le Diff-France' is the kind of joke I would make. Heh.

Anyway, I just like to finish off my previous arguments by saying that biological differences do play a role in affecting our psychology and THAT is why males and females will continue to be different.

For example, guys don't have PMT. So we are not expected to have wild, mood swings or go '*****y' from one day to the next.

I never said that RPGs are male dominated SOLELY because of violence content. I just think violence is part of the equation. But I also agree with Gwalchmai that other factors come into play (also stereotypical) such as women preferring real life interaction over sitting in front of a computer all day killing stuff. The fact that someone can COME to like another thing is normal, like girls enjoying rugby or guys with ballet (LOL, I had to say this). But I think there is something that gives each a natural predisposition towards one kind of activity over the other...

Anyway, I do believe the world is changing, like has been mentioned...and it is our intelligence and ability to think beyond the norm that is bringing this change. I also believe that society in the world everywhere may become matriarchal. Heh. I say this because women won't need men anymore to reproduce as apparently, it's genetically possible for a woman to use chromosomes from 2 eggs to create a baby. Don't ask me how that works.

Anyway, this is certainly an interesting topic though...how much of our 'gender behavior' is cultural or biologically influenced. But hey...while I'm alive, I'll still believe that men are from Mars, and women are from Venus. And God forbid I ever do ballet. Hehe.

[unregisturd]

Debate sometimes yields useful information, but it seldom causes a change of viewpoint. It isn't linear; it's simply an exchange of individual opinions. Unless it gets nasty, in which case it's achievements are solely negative.

Yes yes, I know all about the benefits of debate, I just wasn't in the mood to debate at the time.

EDIT: But I guess I ended up giving my opinion anyway, didn't I?

[dragon wench]

Girls and guys are different. That's all I'm gonna say.

That sounds a lot like something the school nurse told my class in grade 9 many, many years ago... It was the sum total of our sex education

Er... sorry for the spam

[Monolith]

[QUOTE=Lost One]We like to play Doom, Quake and nuke 'em games. I've noticed that girls (at least from my friends) prefer games like Sims and avoid violent games altogether.
[/QUOTE]

Uhh, hell, I didn't read the whole thread, sorry about that. But it's late, I am tired and well, what Lost One sais reminds me of my two sisters - the one is faintly older ( 21 years), the other one is younger ( 14 years). Both like to play Sims. *But* both always do the same thing to get money... (besides cheating ). They merry, get the husbands money and 'kill' him ( they set a fire and let him burn). Then they look out for another 'victim'. In my opinion that's rather sadistic...isn't it? Indeed it is. And my younger sister likes playing GTA Vice City as well...just imagine what she does with a Katana...
Yup...baad things.

And both like playing RPGs - like BG and BG2 ( although my younger sister thinks that both games are much to difficult - she always pulls down the difficulty-bar...). Perhaps there really is a connection...
Well, I like Postal 2 and it's one of the few games I have which aren't a RPG. Very suspicious...

[Krusader]

[QUOTE=Dottie]Like I said, I think the reason why girls do "girly" things are because its a cultural tradition.

I noticed you said all girls, but you seem to miss my point. Im arguing that the dominance of a particular gender in areas that are usally connected to that gender are mostly a result of culture, not a result of important features in that area, like violence level, connects to important features for that gender. Again, if important features was what controled our behaviour there are many things that would be different, some of them have been mentioned here.[/QUOTE]
Hardly. While I acknowledge the influence the stereotypes have had in the human species, the plain truth is that males and females are different. Physically, mentally, etc. Males and females are different. More things than you may suspect are influenced by proteins called sexual hormones. These hormones have a usually unnoticed but highly determinant importance in human behaviour.

[Krusader]

[QUOTE=Ekental]errmmm.... do keep in mind that many of the girls are ACTUALLY guys PLAYING as girls. [/QUOTE]
Yes. I always chose female characters in games. I've never played a MMORPG but, my Diablo, Fallout, and Baldur's Gate characters were females. I just love women.

It was until they started introducing love content in the games that I started using male characters. I don't want a male NPC romancing my alter-ego, thank you very much.

[Bloodthroe]

[QUOTE=Monolith]Uhh, hell, I didn't read the whole thread, sorry about that. But it's late, I am tired and well, what Lost One sais reminds me of my two sisters - the one is faintly older ( 21 years), the other one is younger ( 14 years). Both like to play Sims. *But* both always do the same thing to get money... (besides cheating ). They merry, get the husbands money and 'kill' him ( they set a fire and let him burn). Then they look out for another 'victim'. In my opinion that's rather sadistic...isn't it?[/QUOTE]Well I actually I something simular. Since you start out with more money if you make more peope on Sims. I built a small pool told them to go swimming and I sold the ladder. They end up drowning and I start the game fresh with more money. IT'S NOT SADISTIC!...uhh it's just people like to find loop-holes in games at one point or another... yeah..that's it. =-s

[fable]

the plain truth is that males and females are different. Physically, mentally, etc.

Then why aren't these mental differences borne out by scientific tests, which show the exact opposite?

[Krusader]

There are of course scientific proof of what I am talking about. I just can't find it right away, need to google it. There was also a most thorough study being conducted in the USA some years ago that was yielding complete proof of the differences between men and women. Sadly, the feminists caused such uproar that the University conducting it had to stop it I think. I have been looking for info anent that study, but being unable to find it. I saw the video just once for one of my final tests.

In the meanwhile, just watch the Who Wants to Be a Millionaire show and compare how many women make it to the centre seat against the number of males who do it. And I am possitive the selection process for the show is fair and non-stereotypized, and none of the women who make it to the final ten is stupid or handicapped; but they just are not as fast as most males in ordering the answers.

[fable]

[QUOTE=Krusader]There are of course scientific proof of what I am talking about. I just can't find it right away, need to google it. There was also a most thorough study being conducted in the USA some years ago that was yielding complete proof of the differences between men and women. Sadly, the feminists caused such uproar that the University conducting it had to stop it I think. I have been looking for info anent that study, but being unable to find it. I saw the video just once for one of my final tests.
[/QUOTE]

It will be interesting to see exactly what research you can find, becuse we have a biologist who posted several studies that showed no differences at all, some time last year. Hopefully, CElegans will be show up again. In the meantime, your information will, I'm sure, provide food for thought.

[Krusader]

First one:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/ ... 13,00.html

You can take the tests. They are very interesting.

[Krusader]

Second one:

http://www.narth.com/docs/york.html

[fable]

[QUOTE=Krusader]First one:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/ ... 13,00.html

You can take the tests. They are very interesting.[/QUOTE]

They're also not scientific. They offer very simplistic testing in two categories called "empathy" and "systemizing," without taking into account in any way, shape or form the conditioning of society that might lead individuals of either sex to score higher in one category or the other. One might as well conclude that children from poor familes were inherently more stupid genetically, since they score lower on SATs--if one did not take into account the cultural reasons behind the scores. This kind of article is not proof of anything, except a strange attempt to prove a personal theory without looking at all the factors involved in arriving at a scientific conclusion.

Concerning the second link, the quotes in the article are from books that are not studies, but personal interpretations by people with rather extreme conservative views. This is not surprising, as the organization hosting the article, NARTH, is an anti-homosexual think tank aimed at getting out a very conservative religious view of humanity.

[Demortis]

ok i dont know if someone said this already but here goes.Most women (NOTE: i say most) dont like the fact that hey theres finally a female dark elf, But shes bearly wearing anything, AND why the hell does she have bigger breasts then I do( speaking as some women ive heard) That and why do her **** bounce like that when there that big? the reason i figure is that rpg creators are guys who cant get girlfriends sit in there basements thinking about women they will never get or even see in their lives. Thats why most women dont play rpgs. the semi-reality that they want is made be men.but yes violence is all ways the answer. there is no problem that cant be solved with small amounts of high explosives.

[fable]

ok i dont know if someone said this already but here goes.Most women (NOTE: i say most) dont like the fact that hey theres finally a female dark elf, But shes bearly wearing anything, AND why the hell does she have bigger breasts then I do( speaking as some women ive heard)

So you're saying that most women don't like or play RPGs because a few coders have created women that with ridiculously large breasts that drive them green with envy.

Does anybody else find this statement a bit lacking in the reality department?