Y'tossi et al (spoilers ahoy)

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:34 am

Hello

I've just duffed up the guardians of the final seal (Y'tosser, Hive Mother, et al) at about the sixth attempt and wondered what tactics people used to defeat this very tough group.

Boo won't let me use cheese like traps and, if possible, "oh dear, I should've rested" after having entered the fray. My party was Avenger (self), Minsc, Sarevok, Jan, Aerie and Anomen. Previous battles had used up all my summonses, though I had plenty of Remove Fear, Death Ward and Chaotic Commands.

I had to lure them off into the side rooms, which has a whiff of cheese about it, so I wondered what others had done, apart from setting hundreds of traps and summoning half of Nato.

Oh, forgot to say, the best bit was that it ended with Jan nailing the blade barrier dude with a crossbow in the kneecaps.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:00 am

Well, luring some of them into the other rooms is totally devoid of cheese IMHO. It's just good tactics. Why fight powerful enemies straight on?
Also, why wouldn't you party take a well-deserved nap? I agree that resting after every fired magic missile would be real cheesy, but the way I understand it you've depleted a lot of magic already. So what sensible partyleader would go and open a mysterious seal in a dungeon that's crawling with powerful demons and stuff, knowing full well something nasty is going to pop out (because it did before)??

You probably know there's a couple of mods out there that make the game (a lot) more difficult. If you use them, you won't have to refrain from using cheese... you'll have to use cheese!

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:25 am

this is one of the few instances i would say setting traps is not cheese. from the previous locks, you know there will be guardians of some sort, so Jan will give them a few 'suprises' when they get there.

in answer to your question, i took out the demon with the arms and no top first as she is clearly the most dangerous. i stuck Ano with the shield of balduran iun front of the hive mother and used my pally and mazzy to attack the demon. Jan ran around firing off breaches and greater malisons. once they are finished the drow the other side are a piece of cake.

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:04 am

Interesting. Must get me one of those Shield of Balduran fellas. Where did you get that?
[QUOTE=Coot] Well, luring some of them into the other rooms is totally devoid of cheese IMHO. It's just good tactics. Why fight powerful enemies straight on? [/QUOTE]
Agreed. Though it does exploit the fact that they will then stupidly follow you on ones and twos (I don't know that the tactics mod exists for the Mac; they've only recently got round to releasing ToB)
[QUOTE=Coot]Also, why wouldn't you party take a well-deserved nap? I agree that resting after every fired magic missile would be real cheesy, but the way I understand it you've depleted a lot of magic already. So what sensible partyleader would go and open a mysterious seal in a dungeon that's crawling with powerful demons and stuff, knowing full well something nasty is going to pop out (because it did before)??

[/QUOTE]
Also right, though two things: 1) Boo is not sensible and 2) I've decided that the old "save, open, scout, EEK!, reload and rest" thing is cheesier than Jan's socks in a Cloudkill, so I set myself a rule that if I start it, I have to finish it. Makes it feel more realistic, and more like real-life role-playing.

A question: does Zone of Sweet air combat summon insects? What does?

Thanks for these ideas; keep 'em coming.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:12 am

More..

The Shield of Balduran, aka Shield of Cheese is on the Bonus Merchants (Dierdre, in Adventure mart) - probably in the Baldudrdash Fix pack, if that's out for the Mac.

Your tactics are sound and reasonable - me, I put a few spike traps up, a bazillion skull traps AND summon most of NATO (say, 6 planetars and 30 or so skeleton warriors), then retire to a quiet corner while I wait for the screams to die down.

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:19 pm

A question: does Zone of Sweet air combat summon insects? What does?

no. a successful dispel magic will get rid though.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:09 pm

Well, I won't argue with anyones self-imposed rules on playing the game (im probably one of the worst, or best depending on perspective, about that sort of thing) but setting traps and resting before a battle you know you are going to engage in regadless of whether you had played the game before or not is just good common sense. I mean, did you not expect a host of horrible enemies after you opened the seal?

While, say, telling Fikraag that you will come back for him, then resting in his lair in front of him, putting traps around him, buffing, summoning, etc, is total cheese, Watchers Keep is a bit different.

You have no pressing quest, or at least none pressing on you by the hour (like rescuing the guy's daughter). The bosses arent even in the next room, they are sealed and only released by you at your leisure. So if there were EVER a logical spot for resting, trapping, and buffing before a battle, that would actually be the ideal spot.

But of course, do as you wish.

Shadrach · Post by **Shadrach** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:18 pm

[QUOTE=nephtu]summon most of NATO (say, 6 planetars and 30 or so skeleton warriors)[/QUOTE]
How, exactly, can you summon more than 5 creatures at once?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:13 am

any clone that can cast spells ignores the 5 summoning limit, however, you cannot have more than one deva, ever. im not sure about planeteers though

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:13 am

Thanks for these suggestions. I'd already tried Dispel Magic (or maybe it was Remove Magic) on the Summoned Insects and nothing happened.

Self-imposed rules are a funny thing. I find that they add hugely to the enjoyment of the game. There is often a temptation to "just have a quick look", knowing that you could reload. That's what I'm trying to get away from: if I open a door or something, I'll try to go through with it with what resources I've got left.

Sometimes you can't find a way and have to reload and rest (I think I had to do this with the bit in SoA where you go through a door and appear in the middle of a bunch of beholders. Had to send Minsc buffed and berserk before going through for that one! Mind you, he did mince the lot of them in about 3 rounds

)

Anyway, I still had enough Chaotic Command, Death Ward and Remove Fear left to be able to stand up and clobber Ytossi's troops in the end. Breach rules too.

Now for demogorgon

Iyke · Post by **Iyke** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:12 am

High Level Ability: Smite

Used up 2 smites early on in the fight, against Hive Mother and whoever else scared me most. After that it was easier, but still an exciting fight. Smite should be nerfed really.

Luther · Post by **Luther** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:11 pm

[QUOTE=Iyke]High Level Ability: Smite

Used up 2 smites early on in the fight, against Hive Mother and whoever else scared me most. After that it was easier, but still an exciting fight. Smite should be nerfed really.[/QUOTE]

Staff of Ram +6 is a smite stick. I used it to great effect in this fight. Viconia vs. Beholders (and Hive Mothers, et. al.) is a good match up. Her Magic Resistance stops most of their eye beams. With Crom Feyr she's awesome. Whirlwind the maralith (sp?) with a couple fighters after using breach. Send some summons to distract the archer and monk. The rest should be cake.

boo's daddy · Post by **boo's daddy** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:39 pm

Must give Smite a go. It looks a bit crappy in the description, but clearly has its benefits.

Iyke · Post by **Iyke** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:19 am

crappy? lol

If i remember rightly, it knocks the enemy back until they hit a wall, which may be 2 screens away. they are stunned for all that time, and remain stunned when they hit the wall.

I used it in a couple of 'close quarters' encounters, and its a nice trick to pull out of the bag, just a tad overpowered imho. Guess thats why its 1 a day only.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:42 pm

I was going from SoA so I didn't have a lot of the uber-stuff. What I DID have though was improved alarcity and timespot, which is great esp if your using a sorcerer....
Anyway
Timestop + Improved alarcity (Didn't want to chance a wish), lots of lower res and pierce magic and greater malison, Chain contingency 3 horrid wiltings, magic missiles, acid arrows, fireballs, chain lightnings, (all during the timestop) killed almost all of them. think something like 3-4 out of total were killed like this.
I recall mordenkainon's sword was real useful as well
Those project images couldn't do any spell storage spells though, which really pissed me off, they used to, but I guess the patch fixed that
Yeah, robe of vecna and amulet of power lowered casting time way down as well

iamweaver · Post by **iamweaver** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:03 am

Just finished doing this section myself 3 days ago. I simply assumed that it was going to be some horrid thing, and spread the toughest summoned MOBs that I could around the seal - which ended up being the perfect plan. In fact, the Planetar was by the hive mother. I had already spread my party out nicely to avoid AoE spells, and simply used Simulacra-tensored Imoen with her spell-trap Magi staff and the Planetar to turn the HM around, then blasted it to death.

Since Chapter 2 or so, I always have all toons (and major summoned critters) Chaos-Commanded, or with a charge off of the greenstone amulet (I am often a bit low on cash, selling it to merchants and paying for a recharge). As far as I am concerned that spell is the 2nd most useful in the game, behind Wish. I didn't know until I read the wrap-up that Nalmissra was an extremely tough succubus. After that, I just micromanaged each fight, keeping the "placeholder warriors" alive on each baddie while moving the remaining characters and Simulacra in a dual-pincer movement with ranged support from the Imoen Tensor-archer and mages wherever needed.

It was an extremely challenging fight tho. I have enjoyed most of the "final battles". I have managed to survive all but the 1st Irenecus fight and the Imprisoned One so far, but I am *so* tempted to replay the others again and fiddle, especially where only 1-2 character survived

.

BhaalsMistake · Post by **BhaalsMistake** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:54 am

I was playing multi with my sister, I had a F/M/T with levels 18/17/22, she had a 39th level monk (no mods at the time). I couldn't do special traps cos my xp maxed out before I chose any (I know that's thick). I summoned a mordy, buffed myself to the extreme (didn't have any group buffs). I put the mordy on the succubus thing, killed the priestess (so i didn't get hit by insects), while my sister distracted the hive mother with her near total magic resistance, monks rule! She promptly hit the hive mother with a quivering palm. I then breached Y'tossi before hitting it with a vorpal hit from axe of the unyielding. After these two were dead, the huntress and the succubus were lambs for the slaughter. We lost about 10hp total.

BhaalsMistake · Post by **BhaalsMistake** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:57 am

Sorry, forgot the kensai (duh!) Thrashed her with whirlwinds while she vainly tried to hit my stoneskin and PFMW self.