The Evil All-Stars In Throne Of Bhaal...

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 6:58 pm

I was checking out Sarevok's stats for ToB, and came to the conclusion that if you are one of those people who are taking an evil party into and through the expansion, you are going to have one badass group!
Mind you, the choice of player character is purely subjective, but check out this possible grouping. It's downright scary...

1)Sarevok (CE Fighter) - best PURE fighter
2)Korgan (CE Berserker) - previously the best
3)Viconia (NE Cleric) - best cleric
4)Edwin (LE Conjurer) - best mage
5)Jan (CN Illusionist/Thief) - great backup
6)Assassin (NE) - phenomenal backstabbing

The only one in there that isn't evil is Jan, but Chaotic Neutral is as close as you get, so that's why he's in there instead of Jaheira or Cernd. Haer'Dalis is the only other one close enough in alignment, but my opinion is that Jan would be more useful.He makes a great secondary spellcaster and primary thief until the Assassin starts building up in the skills he had to neglect in Shadows of Amn.
Being someone who always plays a Good aligned group, believe me when I say that I would NOT want to run up against this group anytime soon. They have the two best PURE fighters (with tons of hit points also), the best pure clerical caster, the best spellcaster by far, a great multi-class that is going to improve tremendously, and the best sneak attacker in the game.
If I wasn't such a Goody lover I'd be all over trying this group out...
ElvenKing

[ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: ElvenKing ]

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:15 pm

Wow....that is one badass group.

I wish I could have that group, but there is just something about having an evil pc.....I don't know, it just doesn't feel "right". I can never bring myself to take Firkraags side, or Leithans (slaver in the Copper Cornet). I know it is only a game, but I just feel............guilty.

Kyle Marksteiner · Post by **Kyle Marksteiner** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:23 pm

me too- heck, I feel guilty kicking Jaheria out!

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:33 pm

AMEN Sloanzilla!!!

leeho730 · Post by **leeho730** » Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:26 pm

Hmmmm... Has anybody seen Jan mocking evil characters? He was mocking Keldorn, Anomen, Nalia and so on. Maybe he knew that if he ever mocked evil chars, he would be dead

Anyway the party above will kick-ass! I was playing evil parties as well but I was not considering joining Jan, but that could be good

How about making Anomen chaotic neutral and joining him into your party?

If you are truly evil, let Anomen trash Keldorn for being too good and not being on my side whenever my pickpocketing fails!!!

leeho730 · Post by **leeho730** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 12:08 am

How about a party made of Bhaalspawn

That is, imoen, sarevok, PC, and PC's love interest

The thing is that all the people PC will be romancing are either priest or part priest (I'm no sure if this is coincidence or not), forcing PC to be a thief (or fighter/thief). I love assassin kit (same as PC's father), so let the chaotic evil human assassin (Bhaal was human as well) leave the smell of death and murdered bodies of goody-goody people in the wake of his glorious (and stinky evil) path to godhood

[ 06-10-2001: Message edited by: leeho730 ]

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 11:05 am

Look at it this way. I'm playing a Neutral Evil swashbuckler, but that doesn't mean I always side with evil. I ask at least two questions from anyone who offers me a quest: What do I have to do, and what's in it for me? If I find the answers satisfactory, then I accept the quest.

For example, Lehtinan isn't offering me anything to -not- set his slaves loose and then kill him and his guards. On the other hand, Hendak will give me access to all of Lehtinan's items at a substantial discount, so I side with the slaves. Firkraag sure as hell isn't giving me anything -not- to kill his ancient ass, and dragons keep good loot, so I do it.

edguy · Post by **edguy** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 1:57 pm

Originally posted by Metatron:
I ask at least two questions from anyone who offers me a quest: What do I have to do, and what's in it for me? If I find the answers satisfactory, then I accept the quest.

Fair enough. But another thing that you'll have to consider when roleplaying an evil character is: Who is going to get really PO:ed at me if I do this or that? Is it the big guy with all the goons or is it just some poor schumck in a jail cell?

Originally posted by Metatron:
For example, Lehtinan isn't offering me anything to -not- set his slaves loose and then kill him and his guards. On the other hand, Hendak will give me access to all of Lehtinan's items at a substantial discount, so I side with the slaves.

A discount?

Come on. Siding with the slaves will automatically get you some quite powerful enemies (i.e. the slavers). Ok, I know that the slavers that you run into in SoA don't put up a lot of resistance, but then again they're probably just the guys taking order from somewhere - and I'll bet you that the REAL bosses aren't going to be happy about you setting them slaves free.

Originally posted by Metatron:
Firkraag sure as hell isn't giving me anything -not- to kill his ancient ass, and dragons keep good loot, so I do it.

He'll let you live. Isn't that reward enough for you?

What would you rather do? Have a dragon as your temporary employer or as your enemy? Let's be *realistic*. You can't honestly think that a group of six adventurers who are newbies (for how long has it been since you left Candlekeep? A year?) in the business of hackin'/slashin' can actually kick a dragon's butt?

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 4:12 pm

Originally posted by edguy:
Let's be *realistic*. You can't honestly think that a group of six adventurers who are newbies (for how long has it been since you left Candlekeep? A year?) in the business of hackin'/slashin' can actually kick a dragon's butt?

YOu have to think about the story and the PC.He's a pwerful do and underneath you know Firkraag was peeing in his scale because the PC was a bhaal child.

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 6:56 pm

@ leeho730 - I originally considered the option of having Anomen fail his quest, and therefore put his alignment in the tank. However, the group I mentioned at the top already has plenty of melee power, therefore I felt Viconia would be the better choice. She's already of evil alignment, and she is the better cleric casting wise, which makes her more sensible in this lineup.
@ Mr. Clark - They truly are a scary, scary party. The thing that impresses me about the evil NPC's, especially the fighters, is that their stats are already excellent and require little in the way of ability-enhancing items. Just give them the most current weapons and let them loose. In fact, in this group you can use the bracers of dexterity on Edwin and make him much harder to hit (and thereby freeing up some spell slots normally reserved for defensive spells), whereas in a good aligned group you really have to use them on Keldorn or Anomen. I would say that individually the evil NPC's outshine their counterparts in a good party.
ElvenKing

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:31 pm

Do you think that the evil aligned NPC's being the best in there respective classes is just a coincidence?

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:48 pm

Hmmm, that's a really good question but honestly, I don't think that it's a coincidence at all. There could be any number of reasons, but my opinion is that they were designed that way to try to entice people to play the game a different way, thereby increasing the replayability factor. Let's face it; I would say that if you took an informal poll here that 75% or more of the people usually play the traditional good, heroic party - I admit I'm one of them. However, it makes it a lot more enticing to try something else if you put in something worthwhile, be it a really cool NPC or weapon that is only useful for certain alignments. In fact, I consider myself a prime candidate for this example. Ever since I posted the "Evil All-Stars" thread I've really wanted to try them out, even though I ALWAYS play a good character.
Just a thought,
ElvenKing

Metatron · Post by **Metatron** » Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:55 pm

Originally posted by edguy:
Let's be *realistic*. You can't honestly think that a group of six adventurers who are newbies (for how long has it been since you left Candlekeep? A year?) in the business of hackin'/slashin' can actually kick a dragon's butt?

I think I've done it before, and I'll do it again. That kind of defeatist attitude isn't the stuff that gods are made of.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 11:14 am

I think this the the best evil all star :1)Sarevok (CE Fighter) - best PURE fighter
2)Korgan (CE Berserker) - previously the best
3)Viconia (NE Cleric) - best cleric
4)Jon Irenicus
5)Jan (CN Illusionist/Thief) - great backup
6)Assassin (NE) - phenomenal backstabbing

Red Inquisition · Post by **Red Inquisition** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 11:47 am

@edguy
If i'm evil i'll want to piss off those slavers. Let the little punny punks come get some.

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 1:47 pm

@ KidD01 - Since Irenicus isn't a party joinable NPC, I'm going to have to disagree with you there!

Seriously though, I just can't see him in a party even if you could take him (without using Ctrl-Q...). I get the impression that he'd be one of those people that always failed the 'Works co-operatively in a group' portions of his report card in grade school. I just don't see him as a team player...

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:07 pm

Originally posted by ElvenKing:
@ KidD01 - Since Irenicus isn't a party joinable NPC, I'm going to have to disagree with you there!

Actually, on Manveru's site you can download Irenicus as an NPC.

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:46 pm

Seriously?
Isn't that like taking Edwin on MAJOR mage steroids though? I mean, Irenicus is definitely the best mage in the game (of course, you never fight Terminsel

), but using him would seriously make the game too easy.
On a side note, I tried a solo shadow keeper mage enhanced sorcerer, changed his sprite to good old Joneleth, it's freakin awesome what with Irenicus doing the old protection from magical weapons - whack those mind flayers with an invisible mage stick (since his sprite can't display him holding anything)

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 4:47 pm

For ToB, would Imoen be better then Jan, considering the plot?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jun 11, 2001 5:49 pm

@Gaxx, having Imoen or Jan in your party doesn't make a difference in ToB; only having Saverok really does.